I was thinking about introducing a combat maneuver that allows a character to break someone's neck. Maybe an attack test, at +3 TN, and it can only be used if the opponent is either subdued or taken by surprise.
Comments or suggestions, anyone?
Full Version: That's a nice neck you've got there
...Solid Snake, anyone? 
Standard called shot. If you do D damage, you broke the neck. If just S, you caused some damage but didn't damage the spinal cord enough.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jan 1 2004, 07:25 PM) |
| Standard called shot. If you do D damage, you broke the neck. If just S, you caused some damage but didn't damage the spinal cord enough. |
That's probably what I'd do.
Is that damage physical or stun?
For that matter, does Shadowrun have any rules relating to breaking or dislocating joints (more 'how to', rather than 'the effects of')?
For that matter, does Shadowrun have any rules relating to breaking or dislocating joints (more 'how to', rather than 'the effects of')?
If you want to keep up with the very abstract rules, you could just call any unarmed Called Shot against a surprised opponent that deals Deadly with a lot of successes left over a snapped neck. Allow combining Called Shot with Full Offense in special situations? That might work too.
But I'm guessing you won't want to do that, since you started a new thread and all... So I really have nothing. Sorry.
Damn I'm slow...
But I'm guessing you won't want to do that, since you started a new thread and all... So I really have nothing. Sorry.
Damn I'm slow...
Shadowrun has no actual rules for limb-breaking, 'cause that goes against the abstract combat system.
As for physical/stun, maybe that is grounds for a new maneuver. So it's a maneuver that can only be used in the conditions previously stated, requires a called shot, and does Physical damage without any penalty. If you want you can say that it only does Physical if the final damage is S or higher.
~J
As for physical/stun, maybe that is grounds for a new maneuver. So it's a maneuver that can only be used in the conditions previously stated, requires a called shot, and does Physical damage without any penalty. If you want you can say that it only does Physical if the final damage is S or higher.
~J
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Allow combining Called Shot with Full Offense in special situations? |
Why only in special situations? IIRC, Maneuvers can all be used in conjunction with Combat Options unless it specifically states that they can't.
| QUOTE (Cannon Companion @ p. 91) |
| Unless otherwise noted, maneuvers may not be used with combat options (in the same Combat Phase). |
I was thinking more along the lines that it doesn't deal damage in the conventional sense, more it just drops the victim to a deadly condition, and that it's an all or nothing effect. I mean, you either have a broken neck or you don't, I'm not aware of a condition that exists inbetween.
I think the abtract system relies on the idea that, if you notice during the first second that you aren't going to get that darn neck snapped, you'll instead try to strangle the target or try to get a hold or just plain whack him around some.
Feel free to play around with those basic ideas, though. Just keep in mind that it might have significant effects on many other melee-related things if you do.
Feel free to play around with those basic ideas, though. Just keep in mind that it might have significant effects on many other melee-related things if you do.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) | ||
|
Fair enough. I must have missed the 'not' last time I read it.
That happens... I had to check it from the book 7 times as I replied. I'm so tired the lower right corner of my screen seems like it's sinking, and the middle left is sort of bulging, and I keep hearing things speaking to me.
Tell me about it. I've been up for almost 75 hours straight. That's probably why I'm having trouble expressing my thoughts coherently in other threads.
Thank [insert power of choice here] for Coca-Cola. Now if only I could get myself one of those ergonomic chairs that double as a toilet seat... And now it's time for a shower, hope I don't fall asleep in there (that's ouchy sometimes).
Sorry for going offtopic in your thread, Tziluthi.
Sorry for going offtopic in your thread, Tziluthi.
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| I was thinking more along the lines that it doesn't deal damage in the conventional sense, more it just drops the victim to a deadly condition, and that it's an all or nothing effect. I mean, you either have a broken neck or you don't, I'm not aware of a condition that exists inbetween. |
There are several. Cracked neck vertebrae, a broken neck that doesn't damage the spinal cord enough to cause paralysis, that sort of thing.
~J
An easy solution would be to let the player deal damage as stess to attributes instead. If the player subdues the enemy with a subduing combat option, then they will only have a TN of 2 to inflict stress damage. For each sucsess that equals one stress point to an attribute, and if they get 10 or more then the npc is dead or is soon to be dead. If they get less then 10 sucsesses or stress points make a quick stress test for the npc and if he fails he is also out.
Just a suggestion,
Veracusse
Just a suggestion,
Veracusse
A Called Shot that ends up as a Deadly wound (not necessarily staged up to it) works for me, as long as that was the action the character was going for when he attempted it. The inherent +4 target number modifier and +1 Damage Level simulate the desired effect and difficulties in performing it beautifully. Failure to score a Deadly wound simply means you failed to do it correctly and just left the character in a lot of pain. Afterall, it's a lot harder to snap someone's neck than the movies make it out to be.
| QUOTE |
| A Called Shot that ends up as a Deadly wound (not necessarily staged up to it) works for me, as long as that was the action the character was going for when he attempted it. The inherent +4 target number modifier and +1 Damage Level simulate the desired effect and difficulties in performing it beautifully. Failure to score a Deadly wound simply means you failed to do it correctly and just left the character in a lot of pain. Afterall, it's a lot harder to snap someone's neck than the movies make it out to be. |
Yeah, alright, that's probably a good idea. So how do you get a serious wound up to a deadly wound without staging?
By doing a Serious wound. What I meant is that the character wouldn't necessarily have to stage it up to Deadly Physical from Moderate Stun. He just has to give the opponent a Deadly wound with the Called Shot.
Fair enough. I guess the only problem is that nobody on these boards can (or has) actually break (or broken) someone's neck with their bare hands, so we can't get an accurate picture of how difficult it really is.
Edit: Change of mind
Edit: Change of mind
Surprise would probably be more like TN 6.
~J
~J
That seems fair enough. Although, in this system, there isn't as large a difference between TN 6 and TN 8 as one would initially suppose.
1/6 and 5/36. That's a full thirty-sixth.
~J
~J
Adepts have a power called Nerve Strike, which lets them make an unarmed attack (With a TN modifier, I think. I lent my MITS to a friends, so I don't have it in front of me) against a single opponent. For every two sucesses, the Q of the victim is reduced by one. If Q is reduced to 0, the victim is paralyzed. (Q points are recovered over a short span of time, so this is only temporary).
Perhaps a modified version of this would work?
Perhaps a modified version of this would work?
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| ...Solid Snake, anyone? |
Okay, I'll bite: What's a solid snake?
| QUOTE (Munchkinslayer) |
| Okay, I'll bite: What's a solid snake? |
God damn it, I think I just felt a lung give out.
It's the primary character from the video game "Metal Gear" if memory serves.
It's also a rude name for Rattler.
-Siege
It's also a rude name for Rattler.
-Siege
Solid Snake is and has been the main character in the series of video games. Most notalbe of these games have been the past three and soon to be four. Metal Gear Solid, Sons of Liberty, Metal Gear solid substance, and comming soon Snake Eater.
Other (more or less) famous neck-breakers:
Arnold Schwarzenegger in almost all of his movies (not yet IRL though, AFAIK).
David Rhys-Jones aka Gimli in LOTR II.
The Nameless One in Planescape: Torment (if you want to be truly wicked evil, you can break several hundred necks in that game).
Gimli's is the only one of those that happened in a combat environment, however. All others are people taken by surprise. And even Nameless One can't do that before his Strength is (I think) 18 or higher.
Arnold Schwarzenegger in almost all of his movies (not yet IRL though, AFAIK).
David Rhys-Jones aka Gimli in LOTR II.
The Nameless One in Planescape: Torment (if you want to be truly wicked evil, you can break several hundred necks in that game).
Gimli's is the only one of those that happened in a combat environment, however. All others are people taken by surprise. And even Nameless One can't do that before his Strength is (I think) 18 or higher.
| QUOTE (Savior) |
| Solid Snake is and has been the main character in the series of video games. Most notalbe of these games have been the past three and soon to be four. Metal Gear Solid, Sons of Liberty, Metal Gear solid substance, and comming soon Snake Eater. |
Don't forget Twin Snakes.
Although that's just an MGS1 remake with MGS2 elements and controls, really...I like being able to fire a SOCOM and a FAMAS from an FPS standpoint for some reason.
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| Is that damage physical or stun? For that matter, does Shadowrun have any rules relating to breaking or dislocating joints (more 'how to', rather than 'the effects of')? |
Are there any skills/ maneuvers (besides killing hands, heh) that let you deal physical damage with an unarmed attack? (And I don't mean just by getting a bajillion opposed successes
)Only reason I think of this is that I know that in some situations it can be reaaaaally easy to do some long term damage (read: Not stun) with Aikido (real life, at least) -- heck, most of the basic throws end up with you holding their arm in such a way (braced against your thigh, etc) that you have to take care NOT to tear their arm out of their socket... I mean, some bad balance, or a fall, and they have two arms pointing left, ya know?
I'm sure this sort of thing is covered in a book -- any heads-ups on which it is? (Might be my next purchase, neh?
)
I have to suggest that there are not, keeping with the abstract nature of the combat system ::derisive snort:: (Wow, derisive is a real word, fancy that)
There are actually some rules relating to bones breaking in SR... if you check the descriptions of the various types of bone lacing it gives Barrier ratings for the reinforced bones... from this I suppose we can determine that non-laced bones are slightly more breakable that Plastic lace.
I recently set a possibly dubious precedent in allowing a character to break someones neck as though busting a barrier once the opponent was immobilised, I suppose you could maybe use this when surprised or unconcious also?
Any thoughts? Smashing blow would work wonders!
I recently set a possibly dubious precedent in allowing a character to break someones neck as though busting a barrier once the opponent was immobilised, I suppose you could maybe use this when surprised or unconcious also?
Any thoughts? Smashing blow would work wonders!
Yes, but why put in all the effort of smashing blow when you can just break their arm a la a heavily applied arm lock?
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| David Rhys-Jones aka Gimli in LOTR II. |
Austere Emancipator:
No offense meant, but I think the name of the actor who portrayed "Gimli" in the three films which make up the LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy (2001's THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, 2002's THE TWO TOWERS, and last year's THE RETURN OF THE KING) was John Rhys-Davies.
Prototype, Tziluthi: While surfing the Internet looking for new SR Adept powers, I once saw a homebrewed variant of "Smashing Blow", which the inventor (he called himself "Deathmonger") called "Crushing Blow". It was essentially the same thing, except that it was intended to do Physical damage to living targets, by breaking bones and such.
Crushing Blow
Cost: 1
This power enables the Adept to focus magical energy and release it during close combat. The adept must first win in combat, then make a Willpower test against a Target Number equal to the target's Body. If the test succeeds, then the target must resist. This attack does Deadly damage, with a power equal to the Adept's Magic rating. The attack is UNAFFECTED by armor, and is NOT compatible with the Adept power of Distance Strike.
I guess what I'm saying is that your idea to develop the Smashing Blow Adept power for use against living targets is workable--in fact, someone has already done it.
I had the information stored on a 3.5" floppy disk of non-standard SR Adept powers. (That's how I keep track of the non-Canonical or "homebrewed" SR stuff I find.) Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the Website from which I originally downloaded it.
Hope this helps.
--Foreigner
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| Yes, but why put in all the effort of smashing blow when you can just break their arm a la a heavily applied arm lock? |
Yeah, but how do you propose targeting the limb?
So far, by canon, there isn't a mechanic for targeting damage to a specific limb -- refer to the much-flying hate in all of the "Called Shots" threads.
-Siege
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