I know that when an elemental manifests, it sticks around for 24 hours. But how about if the mage doesn't require it to manifest yet. If the mage just lets it sit around in it's home plane until called upon, will it owe favors to the mage indefinitely?
One of my felow gamers brought this up the other day, but it doesn't seem right to me. He conjured an elemental over six months ago, game time, and still says that the elemental owes him favors since he hasn't called upon it yet. Is this the way it actually works?
Full Version: Elemental tasks
That is the way it works. As long as the Elemental in question is not hanging around with the Summoner, but instead on call on it's own plane it doesn't use up any Services.
Hanging out with the Summoner, even if only in Astral, as you say, uses a Service per 24 hours.
Hanging out with the Summoner, even if only in Astral, as you say, uses a Service per 24 hours.
I bet elementals would be cool to hang out with.
| QUOTE (Voorhees) |
| I bet elementals would be cool to hang out with. |
Not a fire elemental it is not...
I think it'd be kind of funny to call in a fire elemental to light your cigarette and then leave.
That would be, how do you say, expensive. Very. But, if you consider it, it might have an interesting effect.
On people who know little about elementals, it could be very scary to see a mage able to bring one up, and then casually use it.
But among mages, it could be you way of showing them that you are not concerned about the resources to get a job done. It might even be used as an intimidation factor. Or it could go terribly wrong, and you could seem an idiot for blowing at least 1K
as a cigarette lighter.
On people who know little about elementals, it could be very scary to see a mage able to bring one up, and then casually use it.
But among mages, it could be you way of showing them that you are not concerned about the resources to get a job done. It might even be used as an intimidation factor. Or it could go terribly wrong, and you could seem an idiot for blowing at least 1K
as a cigarette lighter.
So when you call an elemental to manifest or otherwise perform a service, does that "Start the clock"? Is it where once the elemental performs the service, the mage only has it for another 24 hours per service - or can the mage simply send the elemental back to it's home plane and store it for later.
It can be stored for later
Hmm. Look at the rules for getting elementals to sustain spells, specifically the rules for binding an elemental to a spell. The Elemental can sustain the spell for 1 day per force point lost. If you got a force 5 elemental to sustain a spell as described, would need 4 un-used services from the elemental for it to stick around for an extra 4 days?
No, that's a service with its own time alotment. However, just keeping an elemental on call for 24 hours is a service, too. They're completely different services with their own rules. Just like asking it to attack someone counts as a service even though it might only take a few seconds.
Nope, the spell sustaining is just one service.
2 questions
1. dosent sustaining a spell hurt ur repuation with elementals?
2. I remembhe hearing about a metamagic called binding. I think it is in a newer one of the companions that recently came out. from what i understand about it you bind the elemental to your body adding its force rating to your physical atributes. does it also add to your mental attributes as well? how long does it last i think you roll and the number of successes you get are equal to the hours it lasts but not exceding the elementals force rating. How many services does this use up i thik one but again im not just really sure.
1. dosent sustaining a spell hurt ur repuation with elementals?
2. I remembhe hearing about a metamagic called binding. I think it is in a newer one of the companions that recently came out. from what i understand about it you bind the elemental to your body adding its force rating to your physical atributes. does it also add to your mental attributes as well? how long does it last i think you roll and the number of successes you get are equal to the hours it lasts but not exceding the elementals force rating. How many services does this use up i thik one but again im not just really sure.
1) Not really, that's Ally spirits (it is painful to them)
2) Channeling is in Target: Awakened lands. You roll against 2*(spirit force) - grade and it stays for 10 minutes per success. It dosen't add to your mental attributes or special (Reaction and Magic) attributes. You need the spirit to owe you services, and channeling it uses-up all remaining services, but attempting to channel it and failing has no effect (no services, no drain, ETC).
2) Channeling is in Target: Awakened lands. You roll against 2*(spirit force) - grade and it stays for 10 minutes per success. It dosen't add to your mental attributes or special (Reaction and Magic) attributes. You need the spirit to owe you services, and channeling it uses-up all remaining services, but attempting to channel it and failing has no effect (no services, no drain, ETC).
| QUOTE (mike_the_fish) |
| I know that when an elemental manifests, it sticks around for 24 hours. But how about if the mage doesn't require it to manifest yet? |
The word you want here is materialize. Manifesting (SR3 p. 173) is when an astral form makes itself seen and heard on the physical plane. A Manifested form can't otherwise affect or be affected by physical things. A just-conjured spirit will often manifest in order to speak to its summoner. Materializing (SR3 p. 264) is when an astral form takes on a physical form on the physical plane. Not all astral forms can do this (e.g. Watchers), and spirits that can usually do not like it. When materialized, a spirit can affect the physical world, and can also be hurt physically. After you conjure an Elemental, or call one from its home plane, it'll just hang out in Astral Space till you command it to do something. There's "no charge" for this time until 24 hours have elapsed. Typically you just dismiss it back to its home plane if you decide you don't need it to do anything immediately.
| QUOTE (mike_the_fish) |
| So when you call an elemental to manifest or otherwise perform a service, does that "Start the clock"? Is it where once the elemental performs the service, the mage only has it for another 24 hours per service - or can the mage simply send the elemental back to it's home plane and store it for later. |
You don't get any "free time" out of an elemental after it performs a service. But you can have it present with you for hours and hours before giving it a command, and the waiting won't count as a service until 24 hours have passed (SR3 p. 187 top left). The magicians I've seen rarely keep an elemental around for more than an hour unless they are deliberately wanting a day of bodyguarding. These 24 hours count whether the elemental is astral or materialized.
| QUOTE (Saintgrimm) |
| you could seem an idiot for blowing at least 1K as a cigarette lighter |
If the summoner gets 5 services out of a Force 1 Fire Elemental, the costs for conjuring materials drops to only 200 per service. One service could be to light all your cigarettes for a day.
per service. One service could be to light all your cigarettes for a day.| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| [Sustaining a Spell hurts your reputation with] Ally spirits |
I don't see that Ally spirits have the ability to sustain a spell for their master. Perhaps you are thinking of the Resist Drain service (MitS p. 110)?
One thing - the 24 hours per service used up is the case if the Elemental is present in either the Physical or Near Astral planes, but decidedly NOT the case if the elemental is in the Deep Astral. And you have to call an elemental out of the Deep Astral, because otherwise they'll stay there out of preference. That's why with a Complex Action, you can call your elemental to you for a service, no matter where you are. If they were in the Near Astral (where you go when you project), you'd have to worry about transit time, or the elemental being interrupted by Lone Star, or running into barriers/wards, etc.
Anyway.
Anyway.
| QUOTE |
| That would be, how do you say, expensive. Very. But, if you consider it, it might have an interesting effect. On people who know little about elementals, it could be very scary to see a mage able to bring one up, and then casually use it. |
My current PC's had several air elementals to tea, because he could, and felt like it. They weren't very talkative at first - somewhat robotic, even - but as he mentally characterized them more and more, they've become slightly more talkative. And they recognize him occasionally, too. "Oh," they've been known to say, "You're that wierd fellow!"
But it's expensive, yes.
| QUOTE |
| Or it could go terribly wrong, and you could seem an idiot for blowing at least 1K as a cigarette lighter. |
What if you blew 1k or more on a cigarette lighter anyway?
*G*
| QUOTE |
| My current PC's had several air elementals to tea, because he could, and felt like it. They weren't very talkative at first - somewhat robotic, even - but as he mentally characterized them more and more, they've become slightly more talkative. And they recognize him occasionally, too. "Oh," they've been known to say, "You're that wierd fellow!" |
I was always under the impression that since elementals had a force rating they were sentient beings. and thus would be capable of an intellegent conversation with a human, but dont because either they jsut dont want to or they resent (not hate) humanity because they have to serve us.
Whoa, hey, it costs money to call elementals?
| QUOTE (Voorhees) |
| Whoa, hey, it costs money to call elementals? |
Of course. It costs their force rating times 1,000
in conjuring materials.
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| I was always under the impression that since elementals had a force rating they were sentient beings. and thus would be capable of an intellegent conversation with a human, but dont because either they jsut dont want to or they resent (not hate) humanity because they have to serve us. |
Maybe they just don't have anything to talk about. Books, movies, careers, kids, politics, home ownership, cars, TV, and academia are all right out. There's not a whole lot I'd be able to make smalltalk over.
"So, remember that time I brought you in to light my cigarette in front of that guy? Yeah, that was pretty cool, huh. What'd you do after that? Oh, you mingled with a sea of fire for 4 months? Fascinating."
Robots have Pilot ratings which are pretty much exactly the same thing as an Elemental with a Force rating or a Frame/Agent with a Core rating. They're no more sentient than the other. Spirits are just constructs created from mana by the will of the magician. Some are given more human-like characteristics than others (such as nature spirits and ancestor spirits), but elementals are generally just magical frames and agents.
| QUOTE (OurTeam) | ||
I don't see that Ally spirits have the ability to sustain a spell for their master. Perhaps you are thinking of the Resist Drain service (MitS p. 110)? |
Bah. Yes. Me was confuseled.
| QUOTE (Snake Oil) |
| Spirits are just constructs created from mana by the will of the magician. |
So how do you explain the many instances of spontaneously appearing Spirits?
They are the creation of the dreams and nightmares of man. The astral plane is a realm of dreams, one where magicians simply have more control and influence over. Which is why willpower works and why magicians are self-limited to the types of spirits they can create.
I disagree, but then I tend to be Shaman-o-centric. 
Elementals actually have minds. Nature spirits, on the other hand, are purely a generation of the creator's will without any substance of their own, much the same way that Shamanic magic is just a mental framework to explain how they can do things that we hermetics can explain perfectly well.
~J
~J
I was under the impression that nature spirits and elementals are beings in their own right who are called by humans and forced to perform services, but while nature spirits are somewhat understandable in their mentality and may be capable of holding conversations (at least about some topics), elementals were too alien to relate to humans, not being native to this planet and its manasphere.
Allies, on the other hand, are the creations of the mage and have no will or personality at first except that which is given to them. As they experience "life" they become more like individuals.
Allies, on the other hand, are the creations of the mage and have no will or personality at first except that which is given to them. As they experience "life" they become more like individuals.
All I know is that if nature spirits and other spirits were truly unique, then 10,000 shamans wouldn't be able to summon 60,000+ completely different spirits from the exact same area.
Of course, who's to say that the Shamans aren't each summoning a single portion of the overall Spirit's consciousness.
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