Full Version: True Believer Flaw
What are good examples of causes to believe in, a la the True Believer flaw?
Justice, Environmentalism, Fundamentalist (Any religion), Humanitarianism, etc.
don't forget king, and country.
Racial elitist (Humanis or the snooty-elf kind) types are most often "true believers" in their cause (ie. "cleansing" the gene pool), but there's lots of other options.
A Blade-like vampire/ghoul hunter can be a true believer, corporate drones can be true believers in the corp's cause, gangers who'd willingly take a bullet to protect their leader can be considered true believers, religious followers, etc etc.
A Blade-like vampire/ghoul hunter can be a true believer, corporate drones can be true believers in the corp's cause, gangers who'd willingly take a bullet to protect their leader can be considered true believers, religious followers, etc etc.
Hell, you can be a True Believer of the Faith that states that Humans will kick Horror ass when they pop their head up in the 6th world.
How do you propose to make this a legitimate, hindering flaw?
True Faith
Delusion
Code of Honor
-Siege
True Faith
Delusion
Code of Honor
-Siege
As I have suggested in the past, make it a high force compulsions style flaw.
If there was a rallying call for people to fight XYZ corp that was polluting the wilderness, most people would only get involved if there was a paycheck or other benefits on offer. Anyone with an appropriate true believer flaw (Against said corp, for sanctity of wilderness or whatever) would probably be compelled to go fight even at cost to himself.
You could play other versions as social disadvantage like bad reputation or similar disadvantages. IE: the character suggests "What if it was Aliens?" as a possible reason whenever someone/something goes missing.
If there was a rallying call for people to fight XYZ corp that was polluting the wilderness, most people would only get involved if there was a paycheck or other benefits on offer. Anyone with an appropriate true believer flaw (Against said corp, for sanctity of wilderness or whatever) would probably be compelled to go fight even at cost to himself.
You could play other versions as social disadvantage like bad reputation or similar disadvantages. IE: the character suggests "What if it was Aliens?" as a possible reason whenever someone/something goes missing.
How about this? Your character's "true belief" is a living being. Perhaps her lover is her true belief, or her child, or her grandmother. She'll always behave in such a way as to protect that true belief, and to further the good of that true belief. The character's motive force isn't the desire for money or adventure, but rather her need to make a better life for the person she cares about more than anything.
I know, it's just the romantic in me . . .
I know, it's just the romantic in me . . .
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| You could play other versions as social disadvantage like bad reputation or similar disadvantages. IE: the character suggests "What if it was Aliens?" as a possible reason whenever someone/something goes missing. |
The Mulder flaw!
-Siege
| QUOTE ("Union Jane") |
| How about this? Your character's "true belief" is a living being. Perhaps her lover is her true belief, or her child, or her grandmother. She'll always behave in such a way as to protect that true belief, and to further the good of that true belief. The character's motive force isn't the desire for money or adventure, but rather her need to make a better life for the person she cares about more than anything. |
That's already got a flaw, it's called dependant. You could consider it a lower rating 'true believer' flaw but I don't think it's worth the -3 suggested in NSRCG.
| QUOTE (Union Jane) |
| How about this? Your character's "true belief" is a living being. Perhaps her lover is her true belief, or her child, or her grandmother. She'll always behave in such a way as to protect that true belief, and to further the good of that true belief. The character's motive force isn't the desire for money or adventure, but rather her need to make a better life for the person she cares about more than anything. I know, it's just the romantic in me . . . |
Really Lilt? I would have called that one Delusional, myself.
Sorry, it's the cynic in me.
-Siege
This is such a bogus "flaw."
| QUOTE (Snake Oil) |
| This is such a bogus "flaw." |
Like other flaws, if the gm doesn't confront a player with his/her flaws from time to time.
| QUOTE |
| Sorry, it's the cynic in me. |
You're just playing in the wrong campaign, that's all, missing out on all that true love and high adventure.
| QUOTE (Union Jane) | ||
You're just playing in the wrong campaign, that's all, missing out on all that true love and high adventure. |
Or he just likes being cynical.
| QUOTE (tanka) | ||||
Or he just likes being cynical. |
Or honest.
-Siege
Is the Shadowrun universe of 2064 a milieu necessarily a pessimistic one? I find it quite the contrary. Our campaign is at once gritty and hopeful, dark and optimistic. Of course we seldom coincide with the canon storyline. . . .
Our campaign is perhaps best described as "epic dark fantasy." The world is a place of wonder. How could it not be, so rampant is it with elves and dragons and AIs of mythic prowess and unfathomable agendas?
Our campaign is perhaps best described as "epic dark fantasy." The world is a place of wonder. How could it not be, so rampant is it with elves and dragons and AIs of mythic prowess and unfathomable agendas?
The SR setting has little to do with True Belief = Object Of Affection-Person. That could and would happen wherever there are humans. And if it is taken to the absolutely moronic levels at which it often occurs IRL, it can be quite a flaw. It can be quite detrimental to successful shadowrunning when the mention of a name makes you completely lose it.
That isn't "love and caring" though, that's just unadultered mad obsession. Just like all other forms of True Belief©.
That isn't "love and caring" though, that's just unadultered mad obsession. Just like all other forms of True Belief©.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| True Faith Delusion Code of Honor |
Siege...my friend...did you ever read Don Quixote?
shadowrun is 'necessarily' pessimistic because it's cyberpunk, a genre that is wholly based around the idea that the future is going to suck. magic, to me, is no different from technology in SR, in that both are realms of fascination and wonder that are easily corrupted into more reasons for metahumans to kill and betray each other. that's not to say that everyone's game should be pessimistic and cynical; after all, it's hard to have people striving and failing if there's nothing to strive and fail for. but, yes--in general, shadowrun is dark and cynical.
more on topic, austere's got it right. 'true belief' can be a good, happy thing; or it can be a bad, blowing-up-schoolbusses thing. in SR, the latter is more likely.
more on topic, austere's got it right. 'true belief' can be a good, happy thing; or it can be a bad, blowing-up-schoolbusses thing. in SR, the latter is more likely.
I always see "true believers" as "bible thumpers" of some kind (though the "bible" could be anything from _Silent Spring_ to the new-new-new-testament, to the Ares Macrotech employee guidelines, or even, dare I say, the Microdrek Windows Matrix Server 2062 docos *shudder*). Mac users tend to be true believers, too, I might add.
A fun spin on the bible-thumper theme would be to have a true believer in the latest round of corp self-help/get-ahead books (ie, those "who stole my cheese" or whatever books). The player would want to get the runner team organized, homogenized, etc.... and always looking for ways to improve while hitting other corps. "You know, NightBlade, according to 'The 7 Essential Habits of Very Successful Samurai......'"
A fun spin on the bible-thumper theme would be to have a true believer in the latest round of corp self-help/get-ahead books (ie, those "who stole my cheese" or whatever books). The player would want to get the runner team organized, homogenized, etc.... and always looking for ways to improve while hitting other corps. "You know, NightBlade, according to 'The 7 Essential Habits of Very Successful Samurai......'"
| QUOTE (RangerJoe) |
| A fun spin on the bible-thumper theme would be to have a true believer in the latest round of corp self-help/get-ahead books (ie, those "who stole my cheese" or whatever books). The player would want to get the runner team organized, homogenized, etc.... and always looking for ways to improve while hitting other corps. "You know, NightBlade, according to 'The 7 Essential Habits of Very Successful Samurai......'" |
Rich Johnson, Poor Johnson?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Rich Johnson, Poor Johnson? |
...Beggar Johnson, Thief?
"Who moved my credstick?"
"Chicken soup for burn out mages"
"Chicken soup for burn out mages"
Bloody Stupid Johnson.
-Siege
-Siege
| QUOTE (RangerJoe) |
| I always see "true believers" as "bible thumpers" of some kind (though the "bible" could be anything from _Silent Spring_ to the new-new-new-testament, to the Ares Macrotech employee guidelines, or even, dare I say, the Microdrek Windows Matrix Server 2062 docos *shudder*). Mac users tend to be true believers, too, I might add. A fun spin on the bible-thumper theme would be to have a true believer in the latest round of corp self-help/get-ahead books (ie, those "who stole my cheese" or whatever books). The player would want to get the runner team organized, homogenized, etc.... and always looking for ways to improve while hitting other corps. "You know, NightBlade, according to 'The 7 Essential Habits of Very Successful Samurai......'" |
Don't forget Linux Elitists.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| "Who moved my credstick?" "Chicken soup for burn out mages" |
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Shadowrunners
"Your Resume Wears Combat Boots"
"Corporate Fashion for Dummies"
"Ammo and You: how to pick the proper ammunition for all occasions"
-Siege
"Corporate Fashion for Dummies"
"Ammo and You: how to pick the proper ammunition for all occasions"
-Siege
Shadowrunning For Dummies!
A guide for the rest of us!
A guide for the rest of us!
So I'm thinking maybe Anti-Aztechnology as my belief. How do ya'll think that might manifest? Not shopping at Azmart, not running for Aztech or it's subsidiaries, etc. What else?
Taking runs against Aztech for free or at a big loss...
hacking, heckling or vandalizing Aztech property, sending hate mail...
Or
Working in the local government to make sure that the Azzies never get any inroads... sabatage there assets set them up for the Big guns in the area to look like either a ripe target or a corp trying to cut in...
lots of ways to play it... depends on what kind of guy he is
-Mike R.
hacking, heckling or vandalizing Aztech property, sending hate mail...
Or
Working in the local government to make sure that the Azzies never get any inroads... sabatage there assets set them up for the Big guns in the area to look like either a ripe target or a corp trying to cut in...
lots of ways to play it... depends on what kind of guy he is
-Mike R.
| QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman) |
| So I'm thinking maybe Anti-Aztechnology as my belief. How do ya'll think that might manifest? Not shopping at Azmart, not running for Aztech or it's subsidiaries, etc. What else? |
I think it really depends on your character.
But, in my opinion, if you take true believer, your actions concerning this belief have to be much more active. Not buying any of Aztechnology's goods is a good start, but only counts as passive resistance at best. Your character should be involved in a poli-club. It doesn't have to be like Pyramid Watcher or the Sons of the Alamo... but close. Hell, with Aztechnology, you could even be a part of a Tejano group that takes real offense to traditionally Catholic Shrines and other divine manifestations being destroyed or twisted by a bunch of demon worshipping blood-mages... Your activities could range from broadcasting the truth from across the border or handing out flyers all over the place... None of this is conducive to Shadowrunning for fun and profit which is why this is a flaw.
Layer this flaw with Hunted and Dark Secret and you have the makings of a Revolutionary Hero.
| QUOTE (Fahr) |
| Taking runs against Aztech for free or at a big loss... |
Sounds awfully charitable ... I dunno, if a Johnson asked me to run on Aztech, I still think I'd try to milk him.
wiht the true believer flaw:
| QUOTE |
| "Character is a true believer in a political cuase and will not act to harm it, even at significant personal cost. no matter what, character somehow believes that "The Leader" is really the shining paragon that he wants him to be." |
taking a run for free seems like a significant personal cost to me...
after all you truly believe in your heart of hearts that Aztech is "evil"...
if it didn't have a significant 'in game' effect it wouldn't be a flaw... and at 3 points it's up there with severe bad reputation in game effect level...
if you just don't like Aztech... well then you are not a true believer more like just a strong dislike a "hatred" might be better.. then talk to the gm about a lesser point cost flaw...
this isn't to say you wouldn't try to get something for it.. just that you would be willing to do it for very little or even a loss... cause Hurting aztech is as good as money if you are a true believer in causing the downfall of Aztech...
that is how I run this flaw as A GM... but as always local milage may vary.
-Mike R.
| QUOTE (Fahr @ Jan 6 2004, 02:28 PM) | ||
|
Well, that's simple enough. Believe in... yourself. You are your own political cause. You go on runs for you.
| QUOTE (toturi) | ||||
Well, that's simple enough. Believe in... yourself. You are your own political cause. You go on runs for you. |
True believer "Individualist"
| QUOTE (Fahr) | ||
wiht the true believer flaw:
taking a run for free seems like a significant personal cost to me... after all you truly believe in your heart of hearts that Aztech is "evil"... if it didn't have a significant 'in game' effect it wouldn't be a flaw... and at 3 points it's up there with severe bad reputation in game effect level... if you just don't like Aztech... well then you are not a true believer more like just a strong dislike a "hatred" might be better.. then talk to the gm about a lesser point cost flaw... this isn't to say you wouldn't try to get something for it.. just that you would be willing to do it for very little or even a loss... cause Hurting aztech is as good as money if you are a true believer in causing the downfall of Aztech... that is how I run this flaw as A GM... but as always local milage may vary. -Mike R. |
I believe in Bob Dole, but Im not walking into the republican national convention saying "I'll work for free as long as the run supports Bob Dole" I'm gonna pretend not to care. It's up to the Johnson to discover that I support X cause.
I think "Fanaticism" might be a better name for this flaw. IMO this flaw makes you quite willing to drink Jonestown Kool-Aid.
But if a fixer gives you a hard luck line about having sweet FA in the way of financing, but the run he wants you to do would benefit Bob Dole, you wouldn't refuse it on the grounds of lack of money.
| QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman) |
| I believe in Bob Dole, but Im not walking into the republican national convention saying "I'll work for free as long as the run supports Bob Dole" I'm gonna pretend not to care. |
That's because you do not have the True Believer Flaw, you just believe in Bob Dole. If you did have the True Believer Flaw, you would quit your day job to support your hero Bob Dole full time for free.
Like Zazen pointed out, this Flaw makes you funny in the head. In fact, it makes you so fucking hilarious in the head that other people may often miss the joke altogether.
My take on this flaw has always been that you are actively involved in a cause. I generally dissuade people from being against any thing. I prefer someone who plays an anti-t4echnologist to be more specific in his philosophy like belonging to a certain sect of Luddites.
Or in the case of Linux worshipers to be devoted to a certain designers' code.
I belive they should be following positive goals that force them to rationalize extreme actions. That's a flaw.
Or in the case of Linux worshipers to be devoted to a certain designers' code.
I belive they should be following positive goals that force them to rationalize extreme actions. That's a flaw.
Religious fanatics are prime examples of how this becomes a flaw.
True believers in Bob Dole, for example, would pull a "Grateful Dead" stunt and follow their icon(s) on the road and living the dream.
-Siege
Edit: Extreme Anarchists would be another example of fanatics to a cause.
True believers in Bob Dole, for example, would pull a "Grateful Dead" stunt and follow their icon(s) on the road and living the dream.
-Siege
Edit: Extreme Anarchists would be another example of fanatics to a cause.
What about "nihilists"?
Nihilist: "I believe in nothing...except nihilism."
Nihilist: "I believe in nothing...except nihilism."
| QUOTE (kevyn668) |
| What about "nihilists"? Nihilist: "I believe in nothing...except nihilism." |
Sure --> it's not too far from a "Deathwish" flaw.
Of course, that's not someone I'd want covering my back when the bullets are flying, but that's just me..
-Siege
| QUOTE (Arz) |
| <snip>Or in the case of Linux worshipers to be devoted to a certain designers' code.</snip> |
Not true. I know plenty of *nix Elitists who don't swear by one particular coder, but by the entire *nix system.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.