I have some questions related to capsul rounds.

1) Do you think capsul rounds are the most effective rounds vs. metahumans too?

You fire gel rounds (without increased chances for knockdown) and can deliver a chemical/compound ==> Possibility to inflict 2 stun damages with 1 round.

Most of my characters carry a SA Puzzler (Conceal 6, 6L) and a clip of capsul rounds with Gamma-scopolamine+DMSO. If you need to get down an enemy: He must resist 6L(stun)+10D(stun). Its very hard to get those 10s to stage damage down and i have a second shot too...

2) What chemicals are the best for capsul rounds?

The problem with capsule round is the money. A 12-shot clip for the SA Puzzler cost 3720 . More then you might get for the run

So here are my favorite compounds:

a. Gamma-scopolamine: Immediate, 10D stun, 300 , 3-X
b. Narcoject: Immediate, 6D stun, 150 , legal
c. Neuro-stun VIII: 1 combat turn, 6S, 20 , 6P-X
d. CS/Tear Gas: 1 combat turn, Special, 10 8P-X
e. Nausea Gas: 5 combat turns, Special, 10 Legal

a/b: Perfect for special situations there you need the enemy unconsious very fast, if you don't get enough money try b. a is better for trolls and high Body opponents.

c: If fired in an burst you deliver 3 doses of the chemical, so rules for additional doses apply ==> 2 dose: damage from S to D ==> 3 dose: power from 6 to 7. Effective damage to resist: 7D stun. So you get the same effect as with b, but pay 1/5 price. [You need a burst weapon, its better if you have less recoil, consider the Ares ELD-AR (no recoil, build in surpressor).]

d/e: Those chemicals have some nasty side effects. You suffer a -3/-5 TN modifier - 1 per Body(5), so after 1 combat round your opponents will have a hard time to hit you.

A burst with 1 capsule round CS Gas, 1 round Nausea Gas and 1 round Neuro-stun VIII can be very nasty...

3) How can your PC get better in resisting chemicals?

I see the following possibilities: Biomonitor + Injectors + Antidote, high Body, Armor modification: chemical seal? Any other good combos?

Whats your opinon? Do you use chemicals too?

I know the games I play we don't. If we need to capture somebody, our Mage does a Stunbolt or Trollboy punches his lights out. If we need somebody dead, they're dead. However, most of the time, we try to avoid combat. It draws too much attention and, if you get caught, chances are you're in jail for quite a while.

Oh, and how legal are these drugs and how often do you run the risk of being caught? It's not like you can just walk away from a crimescene with LS buzzing around you.

Of course its better to avoid combat. But if your plan fails what is better? To fire with stun weapons or to kill? If you just stun your opponents LS will might try to get you alive.

Of course a mage with stunball, stunbolt or clout works wonders if you need someone stunned.

We avoid combat and kills in our games. But if you must stop someone its easier to stun him first with capsule then to kill him by physical damage (non-magical).

Two humans fight each other:

Human1: Pistol skill 6, TN4, wins init (a) Ares Predator III with ExEX (b) SA Puzzler with Narcoject.
Human2: Body 6, Armor jacket 5/3

Human1 gets 3 successes ==>
(a) Human2 resist vs. TN4 ==> 3 successes ==> M
(b) Human2 resist vs. TN2 ==> 5 successes ==> no damage from weapon, Body(6): 1 success ==> D stun

This is true. I contemplated making a character that used DMSO and Hyper. Really bad for mages and anything else that requires concentration. However, again, the question of legality comes into play. How concealable is it, how easy is it to get the stuff, etc. Most people don't even wear armor unless they're in the Barrens or a spot known for random violence. Other times it'll just be no armor and all fashion.

There are always downsides to everything. There is no surefire way to get the job done every time.

Capsul Rounds rock. I use option A and B all the time with characters I play who are pacifists. They can take out gaurds without killing them. in fact, I've had GMs give me a Good Rep bases off the number of runs I did without killing anyone. Killing causes messes. Most people don't think about the fact that the corp security guy they just shot is most likely working that job to provide a good life for his family. Too many players look at NPCs as cannon fodder, not as people with lives that extend beyond "the gaurd who got in my way".

So far, capsule rounds havn't been used once. Yamaha Pulsars, shock gloves/batons, and superquirts... but no capsule rounds. Guess it depends on what you like.

The benefit from capsule rounds is that you just need 1 weapon. You can change clips for different tasks. If you just have a taser you won't stop a car... So, try capsule rounds on your next run, but don't forget your EXEX spare clip for drones and cars.

Capsule rounds are great, especially from a silenced hold-out pistol that you can sneak easily past MAD scanners.

Capsule rounds are banned in my game for regular firearms. Use a squirt or similar.

I added a third point, that tactics against chemical attacks?

Thing is, getting pepper punch (OC gas) in your face almost immediately makes you blind and nearly incapable of breathing. Soon after that, it hits you with a pain strong enough to almost certainly incapacitate anything short of a huge troll high on something nasty. Even if getting it to your bloodstream burnt a lot, it wouldn't do it nearly as fast as the effect is if you get it in your eyes/nose/mouth. Just causing the target to be in a burning pain after a while isn't something I'd consider an efficient combat technique.

Thus I stand behind what I said earlier, and wouldn't allow CS or OC/CS to be used in capsule rounds, and probably wouldn't give them significant effects in the time frame of one combat even if someone insisted on it (and spent a lot of money on it).

The main problem with chemical seal for armor is that it only works vs. liquids and even then you have to buy it up pretty high to totally protect yourself. Keep in mind that since you can only buy chem seal level up to the (ballistic + impact) of the armor that makes it pretty worthless on some armors.

As far as I can tell the only gear with 100% protection vs. gaseous compounds is the milspec armor with enviro seal or a chem suit (and I'm not completely sure about that second one). This is kind of sad, IMO because if some of these gaseous compounds are able to affect you at all you can find yourself screwed very quickly. Respirators are a joke in way too many situations.

You know, It's a good idea and it works. But The runners arent the only ones to know how to do this stuff. Just wait untill someone does it back to them.

If my players went this route, I would deffinatley have someone catch on and do it to.

LS isn't stupid, and there is no reason why a cop wouldnt use legal/non-leathal rounds such as those in a back up weapon.

Beware players, every time you think up something clever the GM can use it to.

A chem suit isn't 100% proof, because Green Ring 8 and Seven-7 will still get through. A HazMat or X-E suit is 100% proof, though.

Not all munchkins use Capsule Rounds because not all munchkins have access to things beyond the base book.

~J

And I don't really think that Capsul Rounds are munchkin. They are effective, but that doesn't automaticly qualify them as munchkin.

Personally, being a shaman, I worry very little about taking someone out without killing them, I've yet to take a life.

However, there is one really important reason why cops wouldn't walk around with these rounds in their sidearm, cost. Those rounds are too expensive for the standard officer, the people paying the bills would never go for it. There might certainly be special squads armed with these.

We (meaning my group) don't use them, or at least I've never seen anyone fire one, they might have some and just not gotten around to using them I don't know, the most offensive weapon I carry is my squeaky purple monkey... hmmm, except maybe the grenade... ya the grenade is prob more lethal than the purple monkey, though the grenade doesn't squeak.

On abuse and retaliation. We have certain rules, a kind of spritual "do unto others" jobby. If uber bad guy X is firing his quantum bio accelerated pulse rifle, well then the GM better get comfy with the thought that after we shove our collective foot up his arse, we'll be taking that rifle and firing it at bad guys to come.

We limit the use of APDS and AV ammo for the same reason. If the sams start firing nothing but APDS and AV well then, the rigger will take their head off because now all the bad guy sams will be doing the same. Luckily, APDS is worth more than gold in our games.

All that to say, if the sams started firing these rounds every other clip, then they should expect and in fact enjoy when the bad guys start doing it back.

Every wonder where you left your point?

Sunday

And remember, "instant" toxins actually take effect at the beginning of the next full combat round, not turn or pass. They get until the next initiative roll with no effects whatsoever, while knowing they just got shot.

how big punch is needed to break the capsules?
would grenade do the trick, thus ruining all opponents ammo and possibly exposing them to those stuff? if not, we are talking about Damn hard capsules aka bullets...

Why do I want to make a capsule round for a 40mm delivery system?

-Siege

Cost is the major reason why this isn't the most feasible option.

That puzzler clip of yours would cost 10,980:nuyen: to fil, thanks to our old friend Street Index. At around 900 per shot, I would be very careful who I plugged.

I won't even get into the fact that gamma scop capsule rounds probably need to be custom made, jacking up the cost even more.

It'd have to be Connected: Chemicals, as those are the most expensive component.

~J

Which is the realm of a chemist not a weapons dealer. This is a completely custom item, something that would never, ever sell on the market. Theres not a big market for ammo that lets someone shoot at you for three free seconds before they go down.

specialy if a good jerk can ruin all your ammo.

Narcoject is expressly intended to be loaded into a dart for injection, and probably sees more use by animal control teams than anything else.

~J

Yeah, I know. My point was that GS rounds shouldn't be discounted just because they "let someone shoot at you for three free seconds before they go down". It's the same with narcoject and people use narcoject all the time.

I do realize that it will be far less common than narcoject. I think there'd still be a market considering their increased effectiveness and compatability, though.

Fair enough, I should say it's used a lot in my game.

It has a very low availability, which is enough for me to consider it common.

6 isn't "very low" availability, but I do agree with you that it is common. I've used it countless times, as have NPCs my GM uses.

Maybe its just me then, my players avoid narcojet like the plague for any real firefight outside of an ambush/surprise /special situation.