I did play an elf who specialized in (what he called) Aquatic Infiltration. He had gills, fins, and even carried extra cyber air tank in case anyone wanted to dive with him. His specialty was to go in through the sewage. If your facility was on a coastline he felt he could get in.

I really wanted him to have the punk feel and I figered anyone who spends this much cash to alter himself wants to stand out so I had his orthoskin (sp?) fashoned to have the markings of a killer whale.

Best part of the game was when a witness was asked to identify us her reply was, " I'm not sure but the elf may have had paint on his face."

Hells, in my games if you don't look like a total freak then you are going to stand out everywhere except in the most uptight corp enclaves, and even then most teenagers have at least one or two mods...

Well one could always assume that part of the lifestyle costs is paying back the loan the character used to pay for his mods in the first place.

I think I feel a "you just might be a redneck" joke coming on...

I might think about giving them an exta few K to buy purely cosmetic things. Or just factor in style more when calculating RP bonuses for karma awards.

What do you guys think of adding in a "style" karma bonus, separate from the RP bonus? On one hand, there's a worry about it encouraging stupid behavior (trying to double-gun your way through a room full of LS), but on the other hand...if Shadowrun isn't about taking stupid risks that could get you killed, what IS it about?

I actually regard that as not one-shot. Most people now pay for their vehicles in installments via auto loan, or through lease-to-own. Compound that monthly payment with upkeep costs, and it's really just a monthly money hole like anything else.

I mean, really. Who do you know who's bought a new car in one lump payment at the dealership? Not many, I'd wager.

Who cares about one-time or not? If someone is jumping lifestyles to get an advantage, no big deal. It´s a mayor out-of-character decision, and it gives no power to the PC. Noone will do that for real.

Personally I like the idea of a "style bonus" provided that the players understand that the DM is not going to pull any punches and that their characters very well might die if they try to pull something stupid and fail.

I've always seen my character and my player's characters as having style, but not so blatantly distinctive as to be a hindrance. Shadowrunners need to stand out, they have to have a unique style to match their rep (and tie to it), but not to an extreme.

Sterling (the shark shaman with the cyberarm) stood out, as he didn't fit the usual profile of a magically active character. He did dress professionally, but he did tend to berserk and fireball things that annoyed him. That's pushing the edge of distinctive style.

The sammy with the flaming purple mohawk, ripped clothes, and custom knives is not distinctive style, but again, pushes the edge. The second you have a weapon that leaves distinctive marks (or fires bullets that all have 'spaz' stamped on them) you begin to enter the realm of distinctive style. Anything you do that leaves a trace that the corps or cops can easily say 'Joe Runner did this, I can tell because that fragger has a gun custom modded to fire square bullets', you're in distinctive style.

In fact, the distinctive flaw is something some runners might embrace, but not as a flaw. If you adopt a distinctive style to go with a fake SIN, then ditch the style with said SIN, then you can 'vanish' that much easier.

WEEE AAAREEE THEEE BLAAACK HAAAND . . ok, probably not like that in english <.<
starting off with leaving black handprints, going over to leaving black leather gloves and finally leaving black cyber-hands as a business card *g*

...she'd leave it nearby after the job was done.

On a related note...what with the prescence of tails, and the possibility of gaining animal features and fur, are the devs trying to tell us that the Furry subculture has exploded in 2070? When you walk down the street in downtown Seattle, are you in danger of being mugged by a dude that looks like Starfox?

Only if you're doing a barrel roll.

I'm not sure if streets teeming with cybered-up furverts makes Shadowrun more or less dystopian.

...it could make allergy to fur common though.

On a more serious note, I was wondering...what about freakish mods to cover up something worse? Like, would a Vampire be able to cover up their deathly pale skin with orthoskin? Could a Shedim possess someone, then have that person get so much cyber that it messes with their aura enough to make them less detectable by magicians?

Why would a regular person refuse a Shedim? It's not like everyone can see auras. If the Shedim has the credits, and looks like a human being, why not?

I hadn't thought about the Vampire's regeneration interfering with the Orthoskin...but they don't regen *that* fast, do they?

Generally one would refuse a shedim because 'standard' shedim are kind of retarded. There is evidence that standard shedim are pretty incapable of masquerading as human under anything more than a cursory glance, because they're unable to keep their hate of the living in check.

Master Shedim can do whatever they want, although why they'd PAY for anything is beyond me.

Is there actually anything in writing in SR4 itself that prohibits Vampires (or any other regenerating entity) from getting implants?

nothing aside from the point where it says that any implants get painfully ejected or something, as far as i know . . there's of course the logic that any wound big enough to implant things in would close up almost immediately after the cut had been made . . but aside from that? there was mentioning of this in the part about the recreational drug that gave regeneration to the consumer in SR3 . . and i think in the usual regeneration part in SR3 too, but aside from that? nothing

yes. there's the notes that are inscribed on my brain that reads "allowing critters that regenerate damage equivalent to 1 days worth every 3 seconds to have anything implanted in them is ridiculous".

since shadowrun was not written to be played by a bunch of brainless rules-zombies, that is the only place it needs to be written.

I've always thought of it like trying to implant Wolverine's adamantium .. but worst, 'cause SR vamps can heal from almsot complete death to nothing in seconds. You make a scalpel cut and it closes again right behind the blade. Makes it tough to stuff anything in there Unless you end up with Dr FeelMana, MD and Thaumaturge, who uses a foci scalpel. In which case you're back to the vaqmp popping out the 'ware again after it's implanted. Which would hurt (again Wolverine - Magneto. Ow)

God I'm such a geek sometimes.

nah, you're no geek enough if you don't know such things ^^ . . and in Wolverines Case the Adamantium was bonded to the Bones by Nanotechnological Means if i remember Correctly . . and there was a little bit like pseudo Regeneration concerning Characters that got turned ghoul . . something like Bone-Lacing actually stayed intact, while everything that needed to be actually wired into your Nervous System would have gotten some Damage . .
And Regeneration does not Heal wounds that have been made with an allergen . . so Silver-Allergy would only need an Silver-Scalpell and not a (weapon)focus . .
Depending on the allergy level one could argue that things made of the allergen(i.e. silver) would stay in and intact . .
Furthermore needs a roll be done if the damage level got to be Deadly if the Regeneration would happen . . if you rolled 2 ones with your Essence it did not happen i think . . and again, Wolverines Healing is much more hardcore than usual SR3 Regeneration . . his Regeneration actually Heals Death to some Extent i think . . he was put through a frigging Sun once and when he came out on the other Side he regenerated again <.< . .

We've discussed different techniques that could be used for Vamp implantation for years. Technically, even the Shadowrun novels have cybered vamps, and all but one of the novels (including the cybered vamp one) are considered to be canon.

Cybered Vampires? where? x.x . .
i don't remember reading . . wait . . yes there was something like that . . in the Terminus Experiment Novel . . but there some mad scientist/magician hat worked on the actual HMHVV Strain to produce those THINGS . . that i would not have called Vampires but Zombies more or less . . they were closer to the actual Dracula-Ghoul than they were to the Dracula-Vampire . . and much closer to the SR-Ghoul than to the SR-Vampire . .

They were definitely Vampires. And lesbians ... don't forget the lesbians.

Yes but they were all experiments, where the cyber was added in before, and taken beyond the pale, going to negative essence, and then using vampriism to keep them sustained.

The Terminus Experiment was the title, wasn't it? THe novel most SR players try to forget?

And in Weapon x, they cut him open and put stuff in. Any nanotech is retroactive mods to the story line. It didnt xist when wolverine was first put together.

who could forget the magical adept banshee(elf vampire) lesbian stripper ninjas?
they did not have any regeneration to speak of, if i remember that particular book correctly . .
they just did not die when half of their body went missing through some sort of bad luck or outside influence *g*
and they did die when the cyber got damaged too . .

Edit: they did not so much cut him open and put it in(that's X-13 or X23 or what's her number where they actually replaced bone by bone with Adamantium) . . they basically injected it into him and it molded onto his bones on the microscopic level . . and later on there was some nano-tech added to allow the actual production of whie blood cells or something . . yes, i am a very big fan of Wolverine, yes, i have read ALL AND EVERY SINGLE ONE COMIC in which he makes some sort of appearance(at least i believe that i have) . . and i did read the Book Weapon-X . . gods i loved that nightmarish scene in which he was basically just the walking skeleton(no matter how much my brain kept screaming at me for accepting that in spite of my knowledge of biology) after coming out of the pit with the active radios ^^

There's also a cybered Vamp NPC in canon (SR2?), but my damn old brain can't recall exactly where.

ok, i jumped SR2 . . i had a quick fling with SR1, then nothing for LONG YEARS . . and then SR3 *g* if you manage to find it i will of course take a look at it so i can discuss propperly with you . . but i stand by my point that those abominations in Terminus Experiment were no real Vampires <.< . . Old Marco was the closest to the stereotypical Vampire, aside from the Magician Adept (Elfish?) Vampire Martin DeVries . . (who somehow did not get to be a male banshee ?)

As for Terminus Experiment, they were specifically called vampires throughout the book, IIRC (It's been years since I read it, and did my best to forget it right afterward).

Personally, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, using special techniques and the like (increasing the cost dramatically), that Vampires could not get implants. Paying for the stuff with Essence means that it is a part of them now, and regeneration shouldn't be a problem once the body accepts the new material. I might rule that it would take the equivalent to a Delta Clinic to perform the surgery, and that merely being a Vampire lowers the effective Grade of any implanted 'wares by one (making Delta into Beta, Beta into Alpha, Alpha into Standard, and forbidding the implantation of Standard grade 'ware altogether), while keeping costs the same.

yes yes, i know they are being called vampires . . my main beef with the book as the writing/story is good in my eyes . . if a bit cliché *g*
also: for example let's take cyber-eyes in a vampire . . just because they paid for it with essence does not mean it is a part of them then . . it would allow them to cast through them as it allows for any magician . . but if the regeneration still says:"this are my eye-sockets, get out!" it would still regrow the original eyes . . if that did not allready happen shortly after they were removed before the new ones got put in *g* and if the eyes regrow, what will happen to the cyber? *insert squelching sounds here* probably squish the growing eyes and in time be broken apart and forcibly extruded through the eye socket i'd say . . BIOWARE . . that one i could digg . . it's biological matter and especially in SR4 with it costing essence and cultured being cloned out of the own body-parts that would benefit from regeneration in my eyes . . if one can actually get it in there first *g*
if that has been accomplished? well, heck, bioed(maybe even nanoed[and what did i have to read in corporate enclaves about mana-tech?]) Vampire with Bioware that will never get any stress or something because of the repairs being done by regeneration . .

incidentally, you would have to implant a chunk of allergen into a critter with regeneration to keep it from regenerating. a silver scalpel will only hold the cut open as long as you hold the scalpel to the cut, under the new rules.

i think i mentioned that . . but heck if i can find it right now O.o
of course you're right about that, but you'd have to have maximum moderate allergy for that to work . . if you had serious allergy, you would get damage every some seconds from sheer contact with it . . with moderate, you only get modifiers if i remember correctly *g*

ON THE SUBJECT OF CAMPS WITH 'WARE;
(on the subject of forgetting to remove caps lock and not caring enough to backspace, but caring enough to explain it ....)

Like FOrutne, I clearly remember the SR3 reference to ware popping out after integration in SR3. But I still get the two editions cross with each other. Does anyone have an actual page reference to that rule in SR4?