I'm still coming to terms with all the Unwired Rules but even with a high Resonance + Threading, you need the Widgets echo to start pulling seriously high dicepools on par with a cyber-adept hacker - at least at a glance.

Is there something I'm missing? Black Hat Mentors? Positive qualities? Is there a pornomancer equivalent?

- J.

A little off topic here but recently I put together a boss npc hacker for a future home game and I did a adept build and a techno build and the adept if the faster path. Given buckets of karma the Techno would blow the adept away due to threading, echos, widgets etc. But using one step below prime rules can get dice pools around 18+ for the adept.

The big advantage the Technomancers have is that they can use their bound Sprites to enhance their complex forms rating.
Taking a soft-maxed Resonance and C Form of 5, this means that the Technomancer can have 10+ Stealth rating CF (not just dice) for hacking, AND he can have a rating 10+ Attack to obliterate any agents/hackers. (Remember that the rating is the default damage the attack will make. Even 1 net hit will hurt big time).

Lets not even mention the new submersion options from Unwired .

Any registered sprite can perform an "Assist Operation" task. This adds the sprite's rating to the technomancer's complex form, for a duration equal to the sprite's rating in combat turns. So, a rating 5 sprite with 3 tasks can boost a technomancer's Stealth complex form up by 5 points. A TM with Stealth 5, plus 5 from the sprite, has a Stealth 10 for 15 combat turns.

Same with any other complex form. This is one way that the TM starts rolling the larger dicepools, and putting their opponents thresholds up high. Sure, it's short term. But if you're trying to exploit into a system, go for the admin account every time and just bump up the exploit and stealth to assure undetected stealth. Ditto with Matrix combat. Paladin sprite using Castling + a registered sprite bumping up your attack/blackout/blackhammer CF for a few combat turns, and you're fine. Short term is often fine in many Matrix actions.

This is one approach. Not the only approach. Works great for a hack-on-the-fly and loves quick cybercombat type TM.

Not an Uber-TM, but a pretty balanced one:

Karma build, 750 karma, no availability limit on gear, DS standards do not apply. (The GF can only occasionally be successfully tempted with the power of the dark side.)


No codeslinger, nice-to-have living node stats, paragon not chosen for efficiency, low edge.


Low complex forms, no specialisations, "only" 4 dice from skill. And STILL workable in the matrix.

Fading is resisted with 12 dice, so Threading up to +3 poses no risk of fading. A rating 3 registered sprite can bring stealth up to 8 long enough, and two tests with a (threaded) exploit pool of 13 dice are pretty decent. A munched hacker could get more dice for the first test, but will get only one before detection in case of strong nodes.

Now think "compiled paladin sprite rating 6" instead of "Attack". Apart from the occasional IP spend on Compiling a new one, those services are free (10% risk of fading damage).

So Assist Operation + Widgets = insane dice pools?

- J.

This is not the insanity you are looking for...

A widget lasts 8 hours, and comes with choking drain. Consider ratings of 1-4 doable, but be prepared to suffer from the higher end widgets.
You can prepare more than one, but that will cost you time of use on the other ones.

The above TM build would be looking at a widget rating of 2 (fading considerations), maybe 3 if the mission was damn important. Cheat and Rendering are a nice options.


Some dp math:
Exploit 6 + Hacking 6 (Exploit +2) + Codeslinger + HotSim + "The Black Hat" paragon = 19 dice for exploit. If stealth 6 + Support Operation 5 = 11 is safe enough to risk two attempts at exploit, you thread Exploit by the fading-safe amount, lets say +2. Else you thread stealth. If you threaded stealth, you have 2*17 dice (sustained threading), if you threaded exploit, 2*21 dice. Yep, that´s 42 dice to gain access.
(Program ratings are important and have a range of 1-6, while Complex Forms are on an effective range of 1-15(+). Since the Exploit mechanic is pretty important for the game, and is very sensible to threshold and dp changes, you have your "TM advantage" right there.)

Analytical Mind. It's ludicrously only five build points, and in addition to the +2 to data search and tests the GM deems analytical, the kicker is the +2 software bonus, which means threading.

It's not that useful actually.
Data searches are pretty easy to get massive dice pools for. (Thread Browse CF + Add Assist from Sprite is plenty overkill for most searches)

And I noticed that our Technomancer rarely takes all her successes from the threading test anyway to limit fading damage.

Do you not understand uber? This is a min-maxing thread. If you wanted to buy two levels of threading - pardon me, Software, you would have to spend 8 BP. Instead of eight, you spend five, and get two dice to Data Search as well, not to mention the other +2 you can use on anything you can convince your GM to let you.

I remember, that in least in SR3 there were some magic tests involving drain that allowed you to with-hold dice and add them to your drain resistance. I can't find an SR4 equivalent, but that said, if you want to save 3 BP and still get the same Software dicepool, then it's still in your best interest to get Analytical mind. And again, that's ignoring the other bonuses from the quality.

Software dice are nice. You can have 12 dice for fading resistance, possibly more, and that is enough to always want 3 hits. It´s not about the times that permit you to discard hits.

I would go dwarf, Sourceror (Logic-based), with the following qualities:

Qualities - 70 Karma

• Analytical Mind (rc) For the style and the software dice.
• Perceptive (2) (rc) For matrix perception - Much helps much.
• Paragon (uw) Black Hat (Exploit +2, Crack Sprites +1)
• Technomancer Obvious.
• Codeslinger I´d say for hacking on the fly.

Attributes - 261 Karma
Physical 3 Mental 5, Edge 4, Resonance 6(5), Essence 5.4

Augmentation
Cerebral Booster 2
Trauma Damper

Skills - 158 Karma

• Cracking (Group) 4
• Electronics (Group) 3
• Compiling 5 (Code +2)
• Registering 5 (Code +2)

Complex Forms (all rating 5) - 144 karma

• Analyse, ECCM
• Attack, Shield, Armor, Blackout
• Exploit, Spoof, Stealth

66 karma (+ negative quality karma) left to spend. Should be sufficient for some background skills.

The really neat things:

• Matrix Perception in AR: 12 dice
• Compiling/Registering: 10 dice base, 12 for Code Sprites, 11 for crack sprites
• Threading 11 dice base
• Fading resistance 12 dice (+trauma damper)

So at chargen I´m looking at threading for +4, compiled sprites of ratings 7-9, and will register sprites of rating 4 as soon as possible. (Building the rating 5 stable when downtime is available freely.)

One of my favorite qualities is Home Ground. Pick your favorite datahaven. This gives a TM +2 dice to every test done in that data haven... including threading, compiling, registering, and fading. Plus the nice boost to data searches. Really, since you can thread in that node and almost instantly be in another node, you could thread and resist fading in your datahaven, then zip over to the node you plan to hack. Also very nice to get a little boost to compiling and registering...

strictly speaking, you can have your living persona in multiple nodes at a time. you can actually be in the data haven node at the same time as you are in the node you're hacking.

oh, and i would personally recommend that at the very least you get yourself a free sprite contact at the very least (better yet, getting it to help you with your fading resistance tests....). remember, they can perform all the services of a registered sprite of their force... so if you have a rating 3 free sprite, and you promise it a registered rating 3 sprite if it will assist operation on all your complex forms for, say, 4 hours (while hanging around in whatever node it chooses, with whatever defenses it can put on said node, while one instance of your living persona hangs out in the node with it). the sprite really doesn't have any particular reason to say no (i mean, really, would you do 4 hours of work to get a bonus to a complex form, increase one of your attributes, etc, if you were the sprite? i sure would...)

at that point, you can also request other services from it, as needed, negotiate a price, and readily receive assistance from the sprite. then, when you pay the sprite, you also get a karma discount on your next submersion. it really is the gift that keeps on giving...

[edit] oh, and i'd grab command CF if possible. it's one of the ones where rating is doubly significant. [/edit]

Command would come ingame, with the skills to go with it. Even if one more CF at chargen would be legal, I could start with it. Threading is usually enough for secondary command purposes.

you have 9 CFs known. biofeedback filter would make it 10 if it counted, but i've never seen anyone count it as one of your limited starting CFs.

It isn't a complex form. It's part of your biological node.

Edit - Meaning you should be able to throw in another CF if you have points for it.

Terribly sorry, but I meant to say that I would delay buying Command despite the fact that I would be allowed to buy it on top of everything I have. It´s just not worth it without supporting skills, and would cut into the karma left for background skills. A few groups at rating 1-2 and knowledge skills are more important.

What I could do in our group is buy a grade of immersion, for Sprite Link (Paladin). See what WAS missing from the list? No combat sprite amongst the basic set.

If you take the homeground special ability you could also use the Lifestyle Qualities: In Tune, Resonance Well and possibly Free Access.

I'm not sure if it's cost effective, since you have to pay off the uneducated negative quality for 20 BP or 40 Karma, but you can potentially make a pixie technomancer with A+2, R+2, C+2, I+1, L+1, W+2.

IF your GM allows you to cyber down to 0 magic and then grants you latent technoamtic awakening . . and even then it'd be a pretty hard stretch . .

Or if your GM allows you to take your magic down to 0 with cyberware from the start and then take the technomancy skill, but that's even more of a stretch...

Pixie=magic. Can't be technomancer. Not even if you take your magic to 0.

Opinions Vary

I support Tiger's interpretation. Bobby and I have talked about Resonance vs Magic in the past in regards to metagenetic expression etc. While it is technically possible with RAW with GM approval, it tends to undermine the inherent separation of Mgaic and Resonance. The way I read it, if Mundane then you can Emerge or Awaken. Once you have Awakened you can never Emerge and vice versa, even with a burn-out in the middle.

Only if your GM allows it but I think that's a stretch.

I'd rule if you cybered down to 0 Magic, you're are 0 resonance and cannot increase it.

I'd treat it no differently than a burned out mage.

- J.

I don't have an opinion. It was just for reference. I have yet to have a TM in any of my games. I suspect there are ways to lose magic outside of Cyber though.

From a rules POV, I would agree. GM approval, if given, should go all the way - you could play a the resonance pixie oddball, but not justified by a workaround. Resonance 1 instead of magic 1.

Addictions are your best bet along with serious physical injury.

So a Pixie with a drug habit who gets into a lot of bar room brawls would be ideal for losing magic.

Since Pixies are "inherently magical creatures" who's "ability to fly is based entirely on innate manipulation of mana" (p 65, RC), I would say they can never become technomancers. Once Awakened, they cannot then become Resonance based, even if their magic drops to 0.

However, if a GM wants to allow this in her game, then that's the GM's perogative. GMs can do whatever they like in their games. I would point out that the creature shouldn't be able to fly, however... And I don't know that you'd want to play an 18" doll-sized character with 3 feet worth of wings who can't fly. A better route might be to go the "technical adept" path.

So what tradition/Paragon works best for a technomancer-hacker build?

Info Savants or Sourcerors at a glance seem to be the best suited, based on their sprite collection that is. Although Technoshaman goes double if you want a mentor spirit I guess.

Does playing an Info Savant/Sourceror prevent you from picking a Mentor? Or are technoshamans more LIKELY to select Paragon? My reading any can select a Paragon unless it specifically says otherwise.

- J.

It will probably be better to use the stream/paragon terms for this discussion.

All sample streams seem to permit paragons, only cyberadepts will have to explain that relationship.

If you are out to select your stream based on mechanics, you have two obvious considerations: You want a solid fading resistance pool, based on an attribute with secondary use, and you want a solid sprite combination.

All mental attributes can be part of your FR pool. Intuition (Response) determines your matrix initiative, Logic (System) is part of your matrix soak pool, Willpower(Firewall) determines your matrix defense and stun damage track. Charisma (BioFeedbackFilter) limits the number of registered sprites. As a hacking TM will usually try to avoid matrix combat, we can cut willpower from the list. (Secondary skills? What secondary skills?).
We are left with:

• Intuition: You have a better chance to go first, should timing be an issue.
• Logic: Good mainly for technical skills, which you might want to cover, too. Easily augmented, see above.
• Charisma: Social skills are very useful to a hacker, as are numerous sprites. Almost the default under the BP system, where increasing the length your BP go is VERY important.

Looking for fitting background and sprites amongst the streams:

• Intuition: Info Savants: Code and Paladin sprites, machine sprites for secondary use.
• Logic: Singularitarians: Tank, Tutor, Crack sprites. Sourcerors: Code, Crack, Machine sprites.
• Charisma: Networkers: Code, Sleuth sprites. Technoshamans: Paladin, Sleuth sprites.

Since Charisma-streams come with Sleuth sprites, you should opt for one of them with your stream - but Crack or Code sprites will do, even in a pinch.

Paragons depend on your speciality. Black Hat is for hacking yourself, 01 for having your compiled sprites do the hacking. Alias boosts Spoof. Delphi or World Tree will make your unboosted Matrix Perception insane (+6 counting the VR bonus, what icon was hidden again?). Flow for Threading might permit you to skimp on Software.

Now you have to specify what you want from your TM. "Hacking" is (un)fortunately not enough.

Hey i got something... how about a Threader, meaning someone with an insane dicepool when it comes to threading?
I'm not that good on number crunching, but how would some of you do it?

The thing about threading is that a technomancer gets to choose how many successes to use after the software roll. You don't like the results of the last roll, pick zero successes and resist zero fading; thread again. Your GM says that's too cheesy? Pick 1 success and laugh off the fading; thread again. If you have a software of 4 and a logic of 4+ (both likely for any technomancer) it won't take long for you to get 5 or 6 hits. Any technomancer can walk around all day long sustaining a stealth = twice his or her resonance.

edit: Is it software + logic or software + resonance? Doesn't matter. Both will be high for most typical technomancer builds.

The trick then is to maximize your fading resistance attributes. Resonance is an easy cap or at least soft-cap. Unlike magicians, technos use resonance for both "conjuring" and "drain." Elves get Charisma up to 8+Qualities. Dwarves get Willpower up to 7+Qualities. Buff up in your home ground with all the nifty node enhancing lifestyle bits from Runners Companion and you can easily get up into the high teens to resist fading. With fading resistance like that, there's no reason not to make a spriteherd as well.

Lets say you picked an elven technoshaman and your GM gives you a half decent amount of down time. You can now have your stable of 8 high force (4-6) registered sprites (plenty of services from re-registering) and a threaded exploit or stealth in the double digits. Who cares if you take a box or two from fading after threading? Fix it with a first-aid kit or just live with it for a day or two. You're still god-in-the-matrix for today. Want to hack Zurich Orbital? Thread stealth and exploit. Use a couple of assist services from your sprites and you're in the mid teens for your complex forms. Hack on the fly is no longer hard. The key for a technomancer is downtime registering/sleep off the stun. Rinse. Repeat.

Dumpshock: did I miss anything?

Yep, the -2 to all actions you suffer while sustaining threading. You don´t want to do that all day.

Second, no amount of dice or threshold modifiers can be worth annoying the rest of the group with repetitive dicerolling. You roll threading, and the dice fall where they fall.

I hadn't forgotten the -2 (or -4) to everything else, but a technomancer is never anything else. We have those, they're called hackers and they can be built to do 2 or more things. Technomancers can do 1 thing. They cut through systems like an overused cliche. Sure they want a -2 all day. It's worth it for the hacktastic hackness it supports and hack is all they do. Repetitive dicerolling a problem? Don't play Shadowrun 4, or at the very least disallow technomancers.

Quite honestly, only allowing a technomancer to set a cap before the threading roll is a wonderful and effective house-rule, but a house-rule it remains.

Isn't the -2 a cumulative penalty?

- J.

Yeah but only for each sustained complex form.

So Stealth and Exploit would be -4 no matter how many times you threaded each to increaseit.

You seriously wish to accept a -2 to everything in exchange for higher stealth while you are not hacking? No wonder your TMs do nothing besides hacking. (And even then it will often be way more desireable to "make do" with an Assist Operation service.)

As for the exploit you suggested (rerolling until satisfied, no matter what the odds), this specific group simply and easily expects you to go with the first result you rolled, and nobody will complain if those who insist on metagaming ways are hit by cows from space.

I'll agree with Ryu here. I play a TM and the only times I re-roll threading is when it will benefit the group immensely or means life-or-death for my TM. That's generally linked to a skill with biowires (ie, threading up First Aid to help the team - only got 2 hits? Everyone agrees, keep rolling until I get all 4).

For hacking, which already requires a lot of rolling, I take what I get the first time. And I almost always limit myself to 2 or 3 hits, because I have a terrible track record with Fading and am almost always walking around with a few boxes of stun. In fact, I maintain that a TM's worst enemy in cybercombat is themselves, because my TM has never been touched in cybercombat by another hacker, but she's given herself 6P and 8S before... *roll eyes*

If your GM is more tolerant and your group likes the sound of dice, then by all means, the strategy is effective.

frankly, given it's a non-action to thread, and you can just choose not to suffer any drawbacks from threading attempts, imo you may as well just declare that within a certain amount (probably up to their software skill, with any bonus from specialisation added in) the TM can just choose to have that many hits on their threading test.

That would be the other alternative, yes.

@The Jake: Want to develop a TM?

@Tiger Eyes: *Tries to imagine how a tiger will look with rolling eyes...*

=^.^=
=<.<=
=v.v=
=>.>=
=^.^=
Tigers are just big cats, so imagine an annoyed house-cat and translate that onto a face/body that can kill you ^^

I do but I am pressed for time atm.

In actuality if I design a TM, it would be an ork or troll more for the novelty of it. They are poor choices for playing a TM obviously.

- J.

LOL.

I have a question with regards to armor, actually. What do technomancers use it for? Since attack programs do stun damage, does that mean they are resisted with biofeedback filter, armor, or both?

Attack causes matrix damage, Armor helps you soak matrix damage. Any remaining matrix damage goes to your stun monitor, because you are a TM.

Blackout causes stun damage, BioFeedbackFilters help you soak "Black" type damage. Any remaining stun damage goes to your stun monitor, as always.

Given enough registered sprites, TMs can have insane dicepools:

Resonance could be 5 or 6
Complex Forms the same
"Relevant Skill" at least 4
The Fading Resistance should be 10 to 14 dice, so can savely thread by 2 or 3 above Resonance (for 0 Physical damage)
Registered Sprite "Assist Operation" boosts a CF by Sprite Rating for (Rating) Combat Turns * Tasks used.
Registered Sprite "Sustain Complex Form" takes care of the Sustaining the threading for (Rating) Combat Turns * Tasks used. Note that the Sprite Rating does not limit the CF rating.

Sooo... lets say we want to hack into that Rating 6 node, on the fly. I assume "lowest values that still make sense", i.e. skills 4, CF/Resonance 5, Fading Resistance 10. We have 4 Registered sprites: 2 rating 3, 2 rating 5.

We thread stealth by 2 (now rating 7) and give it to a rating 3 sprite. The rating 5 sprite assists for stealth 12.
We thread exploit by 2 (now rating 7) and give it to a rating 3 sprite. The rating 5 sprite assists for exploit 12.

We roll Hacking+Exploit 4+12+2 VR = 18 dice, thats with hacking 4, no specialisation, no codeslinger, no paragon, nothing. It should at most take 2 IPs to beat The Firewall 6 + Admin 6 = Threshold 12. We might also use Edge.

Node rolls 12 dice (rating 6*2), having 4 hits on average. So the node has a chance of detecting us, even with our stealth of 12.

With "All values 6": Hacking 7 + specialization (exploit) 2 + codeslinger (on the fly) 2 + CF 6 + threading 3 + assist 6 +2 VR = 28 dice, and stealth 15. Beat that, Hacker skum

Of course, as soon as we run out of our beloved registered sprites, we're back to mere mortal mortality...

Followup question: What would be the maxed dicepool for a hacker? I figure all ratings are capped at 6? Except Hacking at 7 + codeslinger + specialization + VR? I have the feeling I missed something because I always heard that Hackers have so much greater dice pool boohoo...

I was looking through the TM rules the other day and I noticed that Decompiling is also a Software test, so that's another reason to pick up Analytical Mind for 5bp.

Can't forget things like the Optimized commlink option for 1 more on Exploit, the encephalon-2 for 2 more dice, and, depending on how strict your GM is, a bunch of agents for the teamwork test boost.

Ok, every agent has a capped rating of 6, so he rolls 12 dice, 14 if you count VR (can you count that?). Thats almost 5 average successes.

So, the hacker is limited to Stealth 6 and Hacking 7+ spec: on the fly 2 + codeslinger 2 + VR 2 + optimized commlink 1 + encechalon 2 + (number of teamworked agents * 5) = 16 + agents*5

in comparision to the TM
Stealth 15
Hacking on the Fly 28 + agents*5 (yes, he can use them, too)

Still, I got this feeling that hackers can get bigger dicepools even without agents... gonna look into that more