Does anybody have the .pdf for this character sheet? I find it's the best for teaching new players the game (which I am going to be doing over the coming weeks).
I had to search high and low for it about a year and a half ago, and managed to dig it up somewhere, but I lost the file to a corrupted filesystem.
[img]http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh182/Wanderneko/ShadowrunHopeful.jpg[/img]

I've you can get access to a scanner (Kinkos!) and scan a decently high resolution scan of it (300 dpi+) I or someone else could make one.

THIS?

I tried scanning it, but there's already too much distortion from the printer...the distortion from re-scanning it, then re-reprinting it makes the small text almost unreadable even at really high resolutions.
And thanks for the link, AllTheNothing, but the sheet I'm looking for has all of the active and knowledge skills printed on the front page.
Specifically, it's got a blue Shadowrun logo in the top leftright (dyslexia ftl), and black boxes and text on the rest of it. Wish I could attach an image.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh182/W...wrunHopeful.jpg

I don't know.
Have you tried with a P2P filesharing network?

looks like you could easily remake that with a basic art program.

SR needs its own Ema...

What?

Ema is some European guy (I want to say Italian) that developed his own sheets for D&D. They were widely used and well respected for their completeness. Just before the switch to the new munchkin edition he was working on interactive sheets that could be easily customized by the user.

Did you try this thread http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=9995 ?

Munchkin Edition? I'm curious as to why you call it that.
(Up until I actually played 4E I thought it was going to be better, then I found that character advancement could be plotted out on a line).

I call it that because they removed Gnomes and replaced them with some stupid dragon-born race.

Still, it brought me back to SR, so D&D4e can't be all bad.

D&D 4E made me want to gouge my eyes out and wash them with Agent Orange for a change of pace.

What I'd like to do is take all of the things that heralded as being awesome (1 HP mooks, awesome immediate int erupt powers--the dragon ones are brilliant, crit-kill zombies) and just migrate them back to 3.5

Or play more ShadowRun.

Yes, I think that's what I'll do. I'll disavow D&D and play more ShadowRun.

Ah, ok now I get it.

Are you sure that is not a third edition character sheet? Maybe one of the last iterations from FASA or Fanpro?

-Chrysalis

I know just the one you're looking for.
I happened to have one tucked away, I went ahead and scan/PDF'd it for ya

SR4 Character Sheet

When they elect Dunkelzahn into office I am going to go to him personally and have him give you a private island. Seriously, it's been two days of -scouring- the internet for this thing with no luck. Where on earth did you get it? Do you remember who the author is at all?

Don't forget that Ema had his site nuked for selling a program that printed full power cards and ritual cards.

Haha, glad to help. Sadly I have no idea where it is from. I had them run off a long time ago, I had a copy stashed away in a folder with blank sheets for various role-playing games. Your description rang a bell, so I went digging for it. Honestly I needed to make copies of it anyway, this was the last blank I had. Enjoy

Honestly, I'm cool with 4e.

It is a drastic change, but what it made me realize was that in 3.5 (and every edition before), combat was so incredibly boring.
It was basically a process of picking feats and abilities that stacked up to the biggest most optimal stats, and then standing in front of a creature and throwing dice at it. Now combat involves positioning, and strategy, and taking advantage of an array of maneuvers unique to each class. Before, the only thing separating a combat class from a non-combat class was how big their attack bonuses and HP pools were.

Sure, there is a whole lot of bull that makes it sound like a ripoff of WoW, and they changed a lot of the lore in stupid ways, but that is stuff that you can just overwrite easily. Hate dragonborn? Get rid of them. Like the old Faerun better? Stick with it. Easy enough.

The miniatures combat is -definitely- a lot more fun in 4e. I love the system...my only real problem with it is that a lot of the class abilities in 4e really seem to have a super-powers feel, so for a classic D&D hard-fantasy sort of game, having priests shoot lasers out of their hands or having rogues mysteriously able to shift their foes around the battlefield breaks the roleplay.

Now it's:

Step 1: Pick some numbers
Step 2: Find the linear path that your character is going to take based on those stats (of which 2 stats matter)
Step 3: Engage in combat, use a encounter/daily power
Step 4: Miss
Step 5: Repeat until all dailys and encounter powers are used
Step 6: Default to At-Will or Basic attacks
Step 7: Enjoy your exactly identically boring combat.

On the off chance that your power actually hits, then WOO! SPECIAL CRAP! that means nothing. In my (admittedly limited experience*) Daily powers which look like boss-killers are in fact not boss-appropriate.

*We ran through Shadowfell Keep or whatever the module was called. Apparently a "boss monster" was 1 creature 4 levels higher than we were, and due to monster scaling vs. player scaling it resulted in "Unless I roll a 17 or better, I can't hit it" which was the entire point of re-doing the CR system.

Well, planning your character was always part of the process of devising their concept, I didn't have a problem with that. One improvement, however, is that two characters of the same class can now come out vastly different. Before, practically the only way one fighter was different from another was which weapon he wielded, or if he used a shield. Now two members of the same class may have very different powers and concentrate on different stats; I've seen rangers use any combination of str/dex, dex/wis, or str/wis, for example. Yes, some people will try to optimize as always, but the diversity is built in.

As far as your experience with combat, I think you're doing it wrong.
First off, modules have always been stupid. If you were only hitting on 17+'s, then the GM should have adjusted things down, or else you need to use different tactics. A rogue has a number of abilities to flank and gain combat advantage for him and others. Fighters can push people around or keep them from moving. Warlords can grant attacks or attack bonuses to others around them. Even in tough fights we consistently hit on rolls of 11-13. You can do some pretty creative things with encounters, dailies, and even at-wills, as long as you aren't just picking the ones with the biggest dice. I found it to be much more tactical and engaging.

Haha, I know what you mean. For me it was all in how I conceptualized it, though.
It is not too hard to think of a quick fighter like a rogue dancing around their marks, getting them to step right where they want them without them realizing it. In fact that is one of my favorite parts, is the important role that battlefield control plays. As for priests shooting lazors.. ah well. I mean, I didn't have a problem with spells like Flamestrike or Searing Light before, I guess I don't see why the gods can't let them tap into it a little more. If it is really a problem though, maybe you can restrict their powers to things like Righteous Brand, or grand equivalent powers that do [W] damage and only work when you smite them with their god's chosen weapon? Houserules are good like that

Not really. I designed two completely different warlords, both functioned identically.

Party had two wizards, both choosing everything the other didn't. Played nearly identically.



Rogue: not really. All of the rogues powers were very very circumstantial (we had a guy who enjoys playing games and enjoys figuring out how to use the rules to his advantage--not Rules Lawyer, but figuring out how the game SHOULD be played--and even he was very disappointed with 4E) and some were better if they missed (I get an Opportunity Attack guaranteed vs. give them a save every turn for it: 50-50 chance I never get that OA that is guaranteed if I miss the attack).

Fighter: Sadly our dwarf fighter ended up leaving due to RL, and I can't really comment on how well the fighter works, as Jim knows how to do things with a character that rightly shouldn't be doable (he was the face).

Warlord: no. not really. The warlord "hey you, hit that guy" is so poorly worded I don't know where I have to be relative to the guy I'm shouting commands at! The power has a range of "melee weapon." Does that mean I need to be next to the guy I'm shouting at? Next to the enemy I want him to hit (in which case, why don't I do it?), next to both of them? The only time it was any good was if the rogue missed his attack and could still deal Sneak Attack damage if he made another attack before his turn. And in any case, I have to give up my attack to do it, which seems counter productive for a fighter-ish class.

AND NO, a warlord can't grant an attack bonus to damn anything. That power needs to HIT SOMETHING first. If the problem is hitting, then you SOL.

I guess if by "functioned identically" you mean "did their job", then yeah, I suppose.
But your tactics and abilities if you're a wizard who took Ray of Frost vs. Magic Missile are going to be a bit different, just as Warlords have some powers geared towards battlefield control, and some for attack/damage enhancement.





Clearly I can't speak to your experience, but all I know is that the rogue in our party is almost constantly sliding people or maneuvering around them. He has combat advantage almost all the time, grants the fighter a flanking bonus, and reduces the monsters chances to hit, aside from high damage output. So far his powers have been really rather effective.




Well I can't say we've had too much trouble deciphering the powers, although I will certainly say that the book is poorly organized, and specifics of a few of the powers are certainly open to interpretation. Targets and proximity, however, are usually pretty straightforward. If your power has a range of "melee", it means you can use your power if the target is within reach of your weapon. The target is explicitly stated in the power, usually "One monster". If your power is allowing an ally to make a melee attack against the target of the power, it doesn't matter where your ally is in relation to you as long as he is able to make a melee attack against the monster, because he is not the target of the power.

As for giving up your attack -- yes, in some cases you do. But it isn't counter-productive, because Warlords aren't a fighter-ish class, despite the fact that they look like one. They are a leader class, just as a cleric is. Their main abilities are healing, "buffing", and battlefield manipulation. Not damage. That's why it isn't bad to swap one of your attacks for another teammates -- because two attacks a round from the fighter, rogue, or ranger is better than one from the fighter and one from the healer. Not that you don't get any damage-dealing powers, but they tend to focus on helping your teammates rather than buffing your own attacks, because that just really isn't their schtick.




Well, like I said, we haven't had that problem too terribly. We seem to have a hit rate of between 50-75% depending on the difficulty of the monster, which isn't terrible, and hit rates go up dramatically when the Warlord and Rogue get in on the action, because they grant attack bonuses and easy flanking. Of course I haven't played any modules, so I can't speak to their quality, but it sounds like maybe the DM should tone down the encounters a bit, though.

No, they did the same thing. Admitted the one warlord was situated at the "far right" of the build and the other tried to sit on the fence.



I haven't played since...April? May? of last year (we had the PDFs of the books sometime prior to the official release--and yes, we had them on pre-order).



Looking it up now.
Blast. I've done something with my PDF.
*Grumbles and downloads anew*
Ok, based on that interpretation, then I need to be adjactent to a creature and tell and ally to make a basic attack on it (doing an extra INT damage). Which is complete bollocks. I can yell at a guy 25 feet away to heal himself, but can't tell him to hit anything.

Warlords can not lead from the rear.

And should not be in front.

W
T
F
?



You know that the power gives them a basic attack, right? Not a simple action?



He was actually toning them up (in terms of numbers, not stats) because we were an 8 character party, not a 4 (recommended number).

removed? not so much. its right there in the "monster" book

in the same way that the monster book have always held stats for the generic races.

i think they just removed some of the less "interesting" stuff from the PHB, as its most often the one book people start out with.

so the more stuff thats in there that could make someone go "hey that looks awesome", the more likely they are to get a sale.

worry about the day when catalyst puts playable infected in the BBB

I don't really see the trouble. Clearly the power itself is an abstraction; I imagine in actuality that you would be teaming up to create an opening for him to attack, not just yelling at him. Adding your +INT to their attack isn't exactly beans, either. Assuming that the fighter is up there tanking the creature, that means you probably have someone with a high STR hitting with a big weapon who can take the swing. So he makes a melee basic for 1[W] + His STR + Your INT. Adding two high stats to one attack is going to be a pretty hefty hit, even if is only a melee basic, and this is an at-will power. Even at low levels that is going to be a good +5 or +6.




I don't know, our Warlord does alright on the front lines. They come with chainmail proficiency, or if you spend a proficiency on scale armor or better and pick up a shield, your AC will be very decent. Plus, the tank (Fighter or Paladin) should be there helping keep stuff off you. Or you could use a reach weapon like a polearm and do all this stuff from one square behind the fighter. You couldn't flank then, but you'd be out of reach and you'd still be able to use your At-Wills.




Well yeah, but what difference does that make? So they can't use an At-Will, but they still get their +STR on a melee basic, and adding the extra damage from your +INT makes it more damaging than most At-Wills anyway; it just doesn't have any other special effects.





Hmm, well, like I said, we don't play modules. I guess maybe they aren't very well designed.
But if you guys were needing 17's to hit, then something was clearly wrong in the level scaling.

That is the day that we take up torches and pitchforks and storm the castle.

I've read the BBB, resulting in being infected by the Shadowrun strain of the RPGfun virus; should I worry?

The last two posts are back on SR, but keep in mind that we don't have an off-topic area around here so discussions of that other 4th edition are frowned upon.

My bad, didn't mean to set off a shit storm My point still remains, who will be stepping up to the challenge of creating some truly great character sheets for SR4?

I apologize for deviating again, it is however brief and does not initiate more replies.



Our observation was that Shadowfell Keep was written by the awesome story department (with no communication from the rules balance department) and the sequel (Minotaur Labyrinth) was written by the rules balance department with no input from the story department: things were balanced right (no "roll a 17"s), but it was incredibly dry.



DamienKnight?

In any case I'll be slogging through ripping apart the graphical elements and building my own sheet from scratch for my character. Got too little space in the important stuff and too much space in things I don't have/need.

I love that app for character and Prime Runner generation, but I hadn't actually played with the sheet itself. Also, thanks for reminding me to get the latest version

there is the 20 page monstrosity known as a dossier floating around in the community projects section.
(err, make that 10 pages)

oh, and i just noticed that it was set to hide anything but the threads from the last 30 days, so if what one is looking for is "old" it may be worth altering that setting.

also, the image linked to in the original post (i wish that the forum could turn img links into url ones automatically, as people seems to assume they can just dump image links everywhere these days) reminds me of the mintcar sheet i have here...

Resolution!

So we've had a scan of the sheet listed with the OP floating around for a little bit, and my rather artistically-inclined girlfriend took a whack at recreating a higher-resolution version using the original as a template!
So no more scan-of-a-printout-of-a-scan sheet~ Nice happy hi-res PDF, free for download!
The sheet is amazing for teaching new players, with the full skill list and page references, and I highly recommend it for your casual and newbie shadowrunners!
I have looked everywhere for the creator of this sheet. If you made the original, let me know! I want to credit you on this excellent sheet.

Custom Shadowrun 4th Edition Character Sheet:
http://www.mediafire.com/?x9in91tbcxtwn1l

Thanks for sharing!

@ all the D&D 4th:

@ the Character Sheet: I like it. I want to make my own, styled after this one.