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hobgoblin
QUOTE (Rayzorblades @ Mar 6 2009, 06:06 PM) *
Don't forget though that he did take Venom* in that miniseries. Yes boys and girls Batman took drugs to help him become even more effective at crime fighting. If there had been no evil-purposefully-added-side-effects he'd probably be popping pills to this day. In Batman Beyond he actually had two suits, one was a large IronMan-esque suit that he discarded in favor of the normal BB suit because it put too much strain on his heart (ironically Tony Stark's suit saved his heart...hehe IRONically ah man).

Here's a problem I've always had; Batman is a fanatic, he's loony tunes about fighting crime. He'd take ANY advantage he could get, like the Venom he took. If there was someway he could augment himself without interfering with Bruce Wayne's "face" qualities, or decreasing his intellect, you better believe he's there. He's a guy who's forced himself through the most grueling training the world had to offer just to be the best in a time where there was no overt human enhancement such as 'ware.

*Venom eventually became the chemical the Batman villain Bane regularly uses to be a pumped out roid freak with super strength.

im guessing your refering to kingdom come with "that miniseries".

been a while since i read it, so i dont recall if venom was used or not.

also, bane basically introduced venom to the world, long before the supposed events of kingdom come. so the word eventually is somewhat misplaced...
Stahlseele
Well, there WAS the oneshot TRUE FRIENDS, where Wayne really becomes a psychotic steroid addicted junkie . .
hobgoblin
heh, depending on the artist working on batman at the time, he has gone from weekend morning entertainment to distilled nightmare fuel. and thats the hero, now consider what some of the villains of the batman world have been from time to time...
Stahlseele
Mr.Freeze?
Cool as ice ^^
And i just realized that Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight parts 16-20 have been released in Germany as a Single Comic Book Called "Wahre Freunde"
so the incident i was talking about was that one
QUOTE
Venom (16-20)
When Batman fails to save the life of a young girl held for ransom, he decides to try a new experimental drug designed by her father called Venom.
Rayzorblades
Yeah sorry I wasn't more clear, Venom was the name of the series in which Bruce takes the experimental muscle boosting drug as Stahlseele said. It wasn't really that well written and the art was very Byrne-esque, but it was alright.
Stahlseele
hadn't know that the drug is named venom . . in the german version, it's never really given a name . .
also did not know that this stuff was supposed to be the same that bane is using O.o
so with that one batman movie, the drug has now . . 3 different points of origin o.O
hobgoblin
so, bane, SR version?

a troll on kamikaze? or maybe some drug cocktail from hell?

oh wait, tempo and a blood spirit wink.gif
Stahlseele
yeah, sucks that magic can do all those best <.< . .
well, one could try with the adrenaline pump and other such things.
hobgoblin
i guess the general problem with magic is that there is no real upper limit.

the more mana you pump in, the more you get out. talk about linear increase in performance...
Stahlseele
yeah, that too . .
but we've allready derailed this thread enough.
let's not start the old magic is overpowered/unbalanced argument in here again . .
even if it is ^^
hobgoblin
well its somewhat related as there was no limits on the build points.

as for unbalanced, meh. magic only really gets into gear in high end games, as it can continue to grow when others run out of toys to buy or implant.

now, if there was some kind of general rule of magic addiction...

kinda like focus addiction, only that it triggers when the mage starts using magic for the silliest of things...
Stahlseele
hrm, cyclops is still hard to do . .
i can't find any mention of this right now, so does anyone know if there are cyber implant versions of the laser weapons?
or the sonic weapon?
that would make many such things MUCH easier <.< . .
hobgoblin
the funny thing about cyclops is that the eye beam is kinetic, not burning...

also, the energy output is basically insane...
Stahlseele
well . . yes and no . . it's as burning and cutting and blinding or concussiv as he wants it to be really O.o
but for the diverse optics light laser on the cockpit, for the looks of it, i would still go with a laser-weapon ^^

and if there's an implant version of the sonic boom rifle, then that would make things like syren or banshee easy enough
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 7 2009, 11:30 PM) *
well . . yes and no . . it's as burning and cutting and blinding or concussiv as he wants it to be really O.o

more like what the writer needs it to be, or the artists interpret it as...

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Scott_Summers_(Earth-616)
Stahlseele
so?
it's powered by plot, just like everything else in that universe.
i guess it would be easy enough to apply the cyber-gun modificators to laser and sonic weapons, and make the external clip-port a must have to attach batteries via cable . .
Degausser
Rorschach (Movie Adaptation)

Human Physical Adept (Super, rediculusly high Karma, I ain't even gonna count it.)

Strength 3(6)
Body 4
Reaction 4(6)
Agility 6 (5 originally, increased 1 by karma)
Charisma:2
Intuition: 4
Logic: 4
Willpower: 5 (3 originally, Increased 2 by karma)

Edge 4
Magic 9 (5 originally, increased 1 by karma)
Initiated 3

Initiative 8(10)
Passes 1(3)

P Damage Track 10
Willpower Track 10

Skills:
Athletics group: 4 (3 Originally, increased 1 by Karma)
Stealth group: 4(Infiltration 6)
Unarmed Combat: 6(8 ) (4 originally, increased 2 by Karma)
Locksmith (Picking): 4+2
Intimidate (Torture): 7+2 (6 Originally, increased 1 by Karma)
Exotic Weapon: Grapple Gun 3 (bought with Karma)

Knowledges:
Seedy Hangouts: 4
Crime Syndicates: 4
Superhero History: 4
Investigative Procedure: 6
Local Area Knowledge of New York: 3

Qualities:
Adept 5
Martial artist (Wildcat) x2 (Bought with Karma)
-+1 to unarmed DV, +1 to called shots to increase Damage
-Watchful guard and Set-Up (Bought with Karma)
Toughness (10)
Guts (5)
Aptitude (Intimidation) (10)
High Pain Tolerance 3 (Bought with Karma)
Sinner (Citizen, later became criminal) -5
Bad Luck (-20)

Magic
Increased Reflexes 2 (3)
Increased Strength 3 (3)
Increased Skill (Infiltration 2) .5
Increased Skill (Unarmed Combat 2) 1
Great Leap 2 (.5)
Critical Strike 4 (1)
Killing Hands .5
Mystic Armor 1 (.5)

Gear:$25000 (5)
Lined Coat ($700)
Latex Face mask (set to constant Rorschach pattern cycle.) ($500)
Lockpick set $300
Grapple Gun $500
Standard Rope, 500m ($250)
Low level lifestyles x5 (different safehouses) 2 months. ($20000)

Notes
14 dice for unarmed attacks, and Base 8 damage for unarmed attacks. Watch out for him!
Rayzorblades
I take it that this is movie Rorschach.
Stahlseele
it says so on the label O.o
Degausser
So? Any responses to my rendition of our favorite inkblot hero? I briefly considered giving him high pain tolerance, but didn't know if that would make him too awesome. C'mon, give me some feedback people.

Also, what other heroes would you like to see?
Stahlseele
pretty good, and do go on and give him high pain tolerance as adept power, no karma limit, remember?
Degausser
Edited, gave him the quality 'High pain tolerance 3'
Rayzorblades
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 8 2009, 09:57 AM) *
it says so on the label O.o

Ah man my bad, not much sleep at the time.
Degausser
Technically not a superhero . . . more like A Super . . . villianish heroish . . . she's in the Marvel Universe.

Silver Sable
Elf (30)

Strength:4(7)
Body:4(5)
Agility:6(9)
Reaction:5(8 )
Intuition:3
Charisma:4
Logic:3
Willpower:3(2 Originally, upped by 1 with Karma)
Edge:3

Essence 3.15
Init 8(11) Passes 1(3)

Physical Damage track: 11
Stun Damage track: 10

Skills
Group: Athletics 4 (Gymnastics 5)
Group: Close Combat 6 (4 originally, bought up 2 with Karma)
Group: Firearms 4(5)
Group: Stealth 4(Infiltration 5)
Throwing Weapons:5 (3 Originally, bought up 2 with Karma)
Ettiquite:2
Pilot: Aircraft: 4 (bought with Karma)

Knowledges:
Crime Syndicates:6
Local area Knowledge of: New York:4
Buisness Finance: 4
Language: Japanese:4

Qualities
Martial Artist (Ninjitsu) 2 (Bought with Karma)
-+1 die Gymnastics Dodge, +1 Die Infiltration tests
-Vicious Blow, Iaijutsu, Kick Attack (Bought with Karma)
Incompetent: Negotiation
*SINner-Criminal

Bioware
Synaptic Booster (lvl2) 1 essence
Muscle Toner lvl 2 (.4)
Muscle Augmentation, lvl 2 (.4)
Reflex Recorder (Gymnastics) (.1)
Reflex Recorder (Firearms group) (.25)
Superthyroid Gland (.7)

Contacts
*Due to her part as a major holder in the crime syndicates, she has a massive amount of contacts throughout the criminal underworld.

Gear
*Due to her part as a major holder in the crime syndicates, she has access to almost any weapon or technology she could want. She typically packs an HK XM30 (with all alternate guns, Regular and Gel rounds), Smartlinked contact lenses, an armored camo suit (arctic), Shuriken, and a monofiliment sword.

*Note: The cops have a criminal file on Sable, but cannot move against her because of lack of evidence and several contacts blocking their path with red tape. Nonetheless, the cops have a pretty good idea that she is behind a lot of crime in New York.
The Jake
QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Mar 6 2009, 02:37 PM) *
I would think that Batman would be a cybered-up mundane character. The whole point is that he's a self-made superhero, and with the weight of a major defense contractor (Wayne Enterprises) behind him. In Shadowrun equivalent, it would be like having Ares making custom cyberware and other gear just for you.


In Shadowrun terms, I see Batman as a high level augmented human with delta grade bioware, cutting tech genetech/nanotech with the full weight of a AA megacorp behind him. Any augmentations he would should either be undetectable or easy to masquerade as something else. Realistically I would expect him him be as close to zero essence as possible without delving into the realms of cybermancy (biocompatibility + adapsin + deltaware).

On a sidenote, if you read the about Wayne Enterprises there is no doubt that in the SR world, it would be a AA rated megacorporation. In whichcase, Wayne would have the rights and privileges of extraterritoriality and could potentially have whatever the hell augmentations he wants....

- J.
Jhaiisiin
Not superheros per se, but I remember a *long* time ago that me and my brother built up the entire Mortal Kombat cast in SR characters. This was Mid-SR2 days though. If I can find them, I'll see about rebuilding them and posting them. In the meantime, have Storm. Not exactly what you'd need/want in a 'Runner, but I think the following setup represents the character pretty well.

Ororo Munro - "Storm"

Race: Free Spirit

Attributes:
Body: 3
Agility: 6
Reaction: 4
Strength: 3
Charisma: 4
Intuition: 5
Logic: 3
Willpower: 6
Edge: 6
Magic/Force: 6

Initiative: 9
IP: 3

Active Skills:
Spellcasting (Manipulation +2): 6
Counterspelling: 5
Shadowing: 4
Palming: 4
Infiltration: 4
Leadership : 4
Negotiation: 4
Locksmith: 4
Hardware (Maglocks +2): 4
Perception: 3
Assensing: 3
Astral Combat: 5
Unarmed Combat: 5

Knowledge Skills:
Gardening: 5
Lock types: 4
Weather patterns: 4
Geography: 3
Metahuman Culture: 3

Spirit Powers:
Weather Control
Elemental Attack (Electricity)
Realistic Form

Spells:
Armor
Astral Armor
Pulse
Levitate
Blast
Ball Lightning
Deflection
The Jake
Batman

Here's my take on Batman. I'm assuming in his case, money and availability is a non-issue and would treat Wayne as having extraterritoriality privileges associated his control of a AA rated megacorp, Wayne Enterprises.

All his augmentations are non apparent for the most part. Almost nothing would show on most scanners - he has some minor headware tweaks (nothing that is too out of the ordinary) and a high level nanohive (again, for the rich and powerful, would that be too out of the ordinary?). I'm assuming ALL modifications are assuming Biocompatibility (Bioware), deltagrade and he's been using Adapsin - it was the only way I could make it work.

Sorry if the numbers are off, I've been distracted a lot this morning. His augmentation may need some tweaking. I'm assuming Batman needs a high Perception/problem solving capability, strong sensor suite (like a sensor sam) and a close quarters combat specialist.

Scary thing is, with modern tech in the 21st century and Wayne's resources, there's almost no reason he couldn't live to fight crime for a very, very, VERY long time. With Leonization and all the other rejuvenation therapies available, with time there's no reason why he couldn't get to this level of awesome.

Attributes
Body: 7(cool.gif[11]
Agility: 7(11)
Reaction: 7(11)
Strength; 7(9) [11 on Suprise tests]
Charisma: 6
Intuition: 6(7)
Logic: 6 (9)
Willpower: 6
Edge: 7
Essence: 0.28
Initiative: 18
IP: 4

Active Skills:
Athletics Skill Group: 6
Biotech Skill Group: 4
Cracking Skill Group: 5
Electronics Skill Group: 4
Exotic Weapon Skill (Grapple gun): 6
First Aid: 4
Influence Skill Group: 6
Intimidate: 6
Mechanic Skill Group: 4
Perception: 7
Pilot Skill Group: 4
Stealth Skill Group: 6
Thrown Weapons (Batarang +2): 6
Unarmed Combat: 7

Knowledge Skills:
Chemistry: 6
Corporate Politics: 4
Forensic Sciences: 6
Investigative Techniques: 6
Law Enforcement Procedures: 4
Law: 4
Megacorporate Operations: 5
Organised Crime: 6


Augmentations [Cyberware/Bioware/etc]
Essence numbers thrown in prior to doing the final essence sum.

Bioware: 8.8
Orthoskin (3) 0.75
Bone Density Augmentation 1.2
Muscle Augmentation (3), 0.8
Muscle Toner (3), 0.8
Mnemonic Enhancer (3) 0.3
Suprathyroid Gland, 0.7
Symbiotes (3), 0.6
Enhanced Articulation, 0.3
Sleep Regulator 0.15
Cerebral Booster (3), 0.6
Platelet Factories, 0.2
Trauma Dampener, 0.2
Reflex Recorder (Close Quarters Combat), 0.2
Synaptic Booster (3). 1.5
Synthacardium (3) 0.3
Reception Enhancer (3) 0.6

Cyberware: 1.6 (0.cool.gif
Cybereyes (Thermographic, Lowlight, Display Link, Vision Magnification, Vision Enhancement 3, Microscopic Vision) 0.5
Cyberears (Select Sound Filter 6, Sound Link, Spatial Recogniser, Balance Augmenter, Damper, Audio Enhancement 3) 0.5
Attention Co-Processor (3) 0.3
Radar Sensor (4) 0.3

Genetech: 0.8
Genetic Optimisation (All physical attributes) - couldn't squeeze in all attributes

Nanotech: 2.0
Nanohive (6) 2.0
- O-Cells (9)
- Trauma Control System (6)
- Universal Nantidotes (6)
- Limbic (3)
- Neocortical (3)
- Oxyrush (5)

Positive Qualities
Born Rich
Trust Fund
Big Regret
Day Job (Wayne Enterprises)
Distinctive Style
Privileged Family Name
Analytical Mind,
Perceptive,
Martial Arts at 30BP+ with virtually every maneouver under the sun,
High Pain Tolerance 15,
Guts,
Perceptive,
Home Ground,
Aptitude (Perception),
Aptitude (Unarmed Combat),
Biocompatibility (Bioware).

Negative Qualities
Enemy (Joker) --> he has a lot of enemies, but only one for life IMHO....
Flashbacks

Gear
Heavy Military Armor + Helmet (customised to look like Batman), give him all the seals and resistances you want,
Grapple Gun,
Batarangs,
Smoke and Flashbang grenades,
Medkit.
darthmord
Keep in mind that while Bats was upset with getting old / weak, he accepted it as a natural progression of things. So he would be unlikely to accept Leonization and other age rejuventation treatments.
Stahlseele
Yeah, in Batman of the Future, Bruce wayne has more or less aged with the grace one would expect.
and built himself an exoskeleton to help him . .
The Jake
QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 22 2009, 12:23 PM) *
Keep in mind that while Bats was upset with getting old / weak, he accepted it as a natural progression of things. So he would be unlikely to accept Leonization and other age rejuventation treatments.


... given 20th century mindset. Sure.

Would he feel that way when guys like Richard Villiers and Damien Knight are getting Leonization every other month?

My understanding was to build the superhero using the rules. Using power armor you can come up with a heavily augmented human - even enhanced sensors. But nothing on par with an uber augmented metahuman...

- J.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 22 2009, 03:32 PM) *
Yeah, in Batman of the Future, Bruce wayne has more or less aged with the grace one would expect.
and built himself an exoskeleton to help him . .

one that could potentially kill him when used...

and i never really figured him as someone that would use cyberware of any kind.

thats the potentially scary thing about him, he is as crazy as the people he puts behind bars (in a fanatic kind of way, he even makes sure to keep kryptonite around in case superman goes rogue), but he do it to fight crime, not commit it.
The Jake
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Apr 22 2009, 07:07 PM) *
one that could potentially kill him when used...

and i never really figured him as someone that would use cyberware of any kind.

thats the potentially scary thing about him, he is as crazy as the people he puts behind bars (in a fanatic kind of way, he even makes sure to keep kryptonite around in case superman goes rogue), but he do it to fight crime, not commit it.


One, that belief in 20th century where most of his adversaries have physical/mental capabilities within the range of normal human limits, he can get by with that belief. In an era where the standard ork or troll can flog the bejeezus out of an ordinary human, that belief will get you killed. That's just a typical example as well. When you start talking taking on organised crime, shadowrunners, magical threats, technomancers, etc, you need an edge and every runner knows this. The whole unaugmented mundane discussion has been flogged to death over the years, so I won't even waste my breath. Bottom line, going unaugmented in the Sixth World doing what Batman does WILL get you killed. Even in military armor, he'd be torn to shreds by a sammie with three+ initiative passes.

Two, augmentations are not ILLEGAL. In the above example, I'm pretty sure none of the ware I gave is Forbidden, only Restricted. Furthermore, if Wayne runs his own megacorporation with extraterritoriality he can have whatever augmentations he wants and never have to answer to anyone. He could walk around with miniguns replacing his arms if he really wanted. Extraterritoriality isn't a some time thing - its an "all or nothing" thing. It's important to also look at the Sixth World as a typical person does. We might regard augmentation as 'unnatural'. In 2070s, they regard a biosculpting like we would consider an ear piercing or a tattoo or going to gym. Heck, they look DOWN on people going to the gym when a biotechnician can do a better job! (check Augmentation if you don't believe me).

Three, I'd create power armor so similar, if the rules allowed it. However, this isn't Cyberpunk 2020 with P.A. suits being the norm. This is Shadowrun and that sort of tech hasn't been canonically discussed. Closest example is the military armors and even that wouldn't bring Batman on par with your typical street samurai.

- J.
Glyph
Another thing to keep in mind is that in comic books, and some anime (like Noir), you can have "mundane" characters who can go up against augmented enemies, because they routinely do feats that the most tricked-out cyborg in Shadowrun couldn't. Shadowrun is a ruleset that does not support that, though, so to create a "normal" character such as Daredevil, Iron Fist, Batman, etc. you either need to make a high-level initiate adept or a sammie with tricked-out deltaware.
Stahlseele
Batman, Adept with Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in,
Daredevil, Adept without Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in,
Iron-Fist, Adept without Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in.
And so on, and so on . .
The Jake
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 23 2009, 09:03 AM) *
Batman, Adept with Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in,
Daredevil, Adept without Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in,
Iron-Fist, Adept without Armor-Suit with Gadgets built in.
And so on, and so on . .


Then Batman isn't mundane....

- J.
Stahlseele
*shrugs*
read some of the comics and tell me that there's not some esoteric adept training in there . .
he never realls struck me as the pure mundane he's all made up to be . . at least not comics wise.
in the movies, especially the old ones with danny devito and jack nicholson, he was closer . .
The Jake
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 23 2009, 12:35 PM) *
*shrugs*
read some of the comics and tell me that there's not some esoteric adept training in there . .
he never realls struck me as the pure mundane he's all made up to be . . at least not comics wise.
in the movies, especially the old ones with danny devito and jack nicholson, he was closer . .


Potentially, but I was trying to stick to the "mundane human" angle.

There's no reason you couldn't argue for Batman to be an adept - but it does weaken the "he's just a man" argument.

- J.
Stahlseele
Technically, he is at least two men, but i get what you're going at . .
And still, Adepts achieve what they want through training alone.
And Clever use of available tools. I say the Boot fits ^^
Draco18s
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 25 2009, 04:49 AM) *
And still, Adepts achieve what they want through training alone.


In a world without magic (or at least unaware of it), adepts would be highly trained individuals, seeking inner power. What they find may in fact be magic, but they don't know that. In shadowrun it's possible that Adepts aren't actually magically powered either, but mechanically it's very very close (sorta like the debate between resonance being its own thing or being magic-of-machines).
hobgoblin
are there not stories of athletes busted as adepts without them being aware of it themselves?
Glyph
Adepts in shadowrun are definitely magic - they can be assensed as being awakened, there are mage/adept hybrids, they are affected by background count, etc. That's not to say that changing the fluff to make it more ambiguous wouldn't make for an interesting variant campaign. And it is well within canon to have adepts who are unaware of it themselves - a lot of adept powers are simply enhanced ability, as opposed to more obvious effects such as elemental strike. An adept who was never tested for magic could simply think he was naturally charismatic, or a good shot, or whatever.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 25 2009, 04:33 PM) *
Adepts in shadowrun are definitely magic - they can be assensed as being awakened, there are mage/adept hybrids, they are affected by background count, etc.


True enough. By canon they are very much magical. I'm just saying that it's possible to be something else.

QUOTE
And it is well within canon to have adepts who are unaware of it themselves - a lot of adept powers are simply enhanced ability, as opposed to more obvious effects such as elemental strike. An adept who was never tested for magic could simply think he was naturally charismatic, or a good shot, or whatever.


Right, which is how any Real World adepts might surface.
evilgeniusx
QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Feb 27 2009, 04:45 PM) *
I better see if I can dig up my friend's Colossus build...I don't know if it is a 'legal' build or no since it was something he did for fun.

COLOSSUS

Race: Troll (40)

Attributes: (220)
B A R S C I L W E
9 3 5(6) 9(13) 1 2 2 5 3



no way. Colussus with a 1 CHA? He was dating Kitty Pryde! He was a charming gentleman, and a torured soul who just wanted to protect his hot little sister. Don't forget he was a painter and big softy under all the organic steel. at least a 3 cha.

Also he needs teh "human looking" quality.
Stahlseele
which is not available to trolls.
and colossus is pretty much impossible to even come close, using any edition of SR . .
Closest would be some kind of MAgician Adept with an possession based tradition. . .
i frigging hate how magic is able to do all that and cyber/bio/nano/gen tech is not <.<
hobgoblin
i guess its because most of the powers the mutants display are basically magic...

or one can look at how magic comes out when put into one of those effect focused systems, like hero system...
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