So I'm sitting here reading Count Zero for the eleventh or twelfth time, and I'm at the bit where Finn and Lucas are talking about the loa in the matrix. Has anything like this ever shown up in Shadowrun? Are there rogue AIs, or maybe even actual spirits, in the Matrix?

Paragons.

This has been touched on in numerous novels IIRC.

I vaguely remember something about a Ghost In The Machine called 'Alice' (Roxborough's ex wife?). It's been awhile now...

- J.

Oh, i forgot that little something in Unwired, the actual "Ghosts in the Machine", AI's who believe themselves to be persons and the AI's themselves and Free Sprites. But Paragons are the thing that rang in my mind when i read "loa of the matrix"

There are AIs, sprites (native "electronic spirits"), actual downloaded metahuman consciousnesses (sp?), paragons, the resonance (whatever that is) etc.
Really, the electronic world is inhabited as much as the astral one.

Random Post # 11

AIs have been around in Shadowrun since 1st edition (Morgan and Mirage). The latest infos and rules for all weird Matrix phenomena are in Unwired (and partially in Emergence). These books feature AIs (further subdivided into different categories), free and wild Sprites and e-ghosts. Paragons are their own class and not even necessarily real entities (they are for technomancers what the mentor spirits are for mages).

Spoiler Alert for William Gibson's Count Zero



The AI Deus, on the other hand, apparently managed to awaken technomancer-like powers in his subordinates, although these only worked within his home system. It might be conceivable that the new generation of AIs manages to perfect this process, learning how to give "normal" hackers a kind of spoofed access to the deep resonance.

Oh what Deus did was quite simple. Most of his followers with "otakulike" abilities just didn't realize that Deus himself "did the matrixstuff" for them. As for the new AIs to replicate that effect, just push their homenode past Response 10 and then read the stuff about creating UV Nodes in Unwired.

I thought that this had never been really explained. What is your source?



Heh, that's a pretty clever idea

About William G's Count Zero AIs...

Wait... good grief, i don't really know if this could be sourced or i made it up... sorry.

Technically the book sources disagree with GreyBrother, though to be fair, it's never explained how AI-created otaku work. Source is page 136 of Matrix:



So, it's not impossible that AI-created otaku work because the AI is shouldering some of the ability.

Demonseed Elite: Yeah, you know how that is. You get your Fanon right and spread it until it becomes official, though it was unintentional in my case. *g*

Ghosts in the machine that I am aware of:

A.I.'s Pulsar, Goldenboy, Rufus, et al
God-like A.I.'s: Deus, Mirage, Morgan/Megara(sp?)
E-ghosts: Alex O' Keefe, Captain Chaos (maybe)
Free Sprites: Taske
Sprites
Technomancers: Netcat et al
Other: ?

Tanegar,

To answer your question, it depends on what you actually think the Loa are.

SR does have e-Ghosts, some are people who's minds got caught in the matrix during the crash.

There are AIs like Dues, Mirage, and Morgan. And there are people who believe them to be gods (like the Loa of Count Zero). There is a group that believe there is a Loa type being called the Deep Resonace.

But in the end there aren't any In-Game rules or stats of any Loa-like character.

It just occured to me that Deus started out as the Arcology SCIRE, whose job was to lend an invisible hand to the matrix users. It would make perfect sense for the AI to continue its base function in this way. Deus has always been a provider of individualized assisted matrix access, even as creator of the Network.

I actually liked that 3rd Edition intermix between AIs and Otaku. SR4 can't give me that since nothing indicates that AIs have something to do with resonance. They are like mundane free spirits.

That's basically how I started freelancing!



I'll admit I miss the old AIs a lot. Though there's only so long we could have gone on with them before it got ridiculous with god-AIs everywhere. The new AIs are more flexible with their lower power levels.

I miss the otaku as an NPC plot device. I think one of the biggest SR3 mistakes that I was part of creating was providing player creation rules for otaku. They were a much better plot device than a character type.

some like the big bad unkillable squidhead-wannabe monster of the week, others prefer things to be killable, or just stop taking on futile jobs.

elf, dragon and ia conspiracies have been scaled back to allow a more "street" kind of game. still, there is some interesting AI&TM activity in geneva of all places

I thought that Deus began as the AEP (Arcology Expert Program).

Correct, the SCIRE is the host where Deus lived.

How many mistakes were you a part of? ;)
The first otaku creation rules came in SR2 (VR2).

True, I was only involved when it hit 3rd edition.

I thought them awesome except the whole "must be in a tribe" thing ^^

Sorry, wrong acronym. AEP is right, of course.

That may be true, but you were the one to take the concept and fully flesh it out, and make it not suck.

The Eggman
_ I am Ozymandias King of Kings, look upon my works, ye mighty, and tremble. _

hey wow, CE, long time no see!

I lurk and lurk and lurk, but I'm never gone long.
- The Eggman