Assuming that a sub-dermal, non-cyber/bioware implant would not affect essence ratings (think ceramic beads in a dudes wang), could a mage have festishes implanted beneath the surface of the skin in order to avoid them being easily lost on a run?
The negatives to balance against the seeming metagaming would be the social drrawbacks (visible implants would be weird unless your in the right crowd) and the painful side-effects of actually losing the fetishes. A bunch of cheek implanted fetishes on that hamster shaman, might ake him look the part and save him from having his expensive fetishes lost or damaged during a job, but getting captured by enemy street sams that dig the items unceremoniously outta his face is still bound to be unpleasant. Any thoughts?
Full Version: Fetish Implants
Implant them where nobody can see them.
In the Ass, in your Legs, in your Torso.
It's cosmetic Surgery at best, so i don't think there's any essence-loss in there, but i ain't sure . .
In the Ass, in your Legs, in your Torso.
It's cosmetic Surgery at best, so i don't think there's any essence-loss in there, but i ain't sure . .
It can be done, yes.
History has spoken.
allthough, not that surprising to me, considering you can enchant cyber-ware-implants too . .
allthough, not that surprising to me, considering you can enchant cyber-ware-implants too . .
Anybody out there actually have this happen in their games before? Do you think this would be a common procedure?
Most common is the Cyber-Spur Weapon-Focus.
But look up Uncle Ancients page for silly ideas ^^
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/6.html
Or an implanted/grafted to the Bone Armor-Spell or Shield or Barrier Spell Focus
For people who are in high-Society, a visibly implanted Fashion-Spell-Fetish or something like that is very probable.
Or Make-Over. Or Fast, or something along those lines. For the more practical thinking something that cures hangovers. .
Hey, Uncle Ancient, has something like that been invented yet? Magical Cure for Hangovers? O.o
That should be a veritable gold-mine ^^
But look up Uncle Ancients page for silly ideas ^^
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/6.html
Or an implanted/grafted to the Bone Armor-Spell or Shield or Barrier Spell Focus
For people who are in high-Society, a visibly implanted Fashion-Spell-Fetish or something like that is very probable.
Or Make-Over. Or Fast, or something along those lines. For the more practical thinking something that cures hangovers. .
Hey, Uncle Ancient, has something like that been invented yet? Magical Cure for Hangovers? O.o
That should be a veritable gold-mine ^^
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 15 2009, 05:31 PM) 
Most common is the Cyber-Spur Weapon-Focus.
But look up Uncle Ancients page for silly ideas ^^
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/6.html
Or an implanted/grafted to the Bone Armor-Spell or Shield or Barrier Spell Focus
For people who are in high-Society, a visibly implanted Fashion-Spell-Fetish or something like that is very probable.
Or Make-Over. Or Fast, or something along those lines. For the more practical thinking something that cures hangovers. .
Hey, Uncle Ancient, has something like that been invented yet? Magical Cure for Hangovers? O.o
That should be a veritable gold-mine ^^
But look up Uncle Ancients page for silly ideas ^^
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Spoorn/6.html
Or an implanted/grafted to the Bone Armor-Spell or Shield or Barrier Spell Focus
For people who are in high-Society, a visibly implanted Fashion-Spell-Fetish or something like that is very probable.
Or Make-Over. Or Fast, or something along those lines. For the more practical thinking something that cures hangovers. .
Hey, Uncle Ancient, has something like that been invented yet? Magical Cure for Hangovers? O.o
That should be a veritable gold-mine ^^
Those are essence-costing implants. He wants an Essence 0 cost fetish that he can implant.
something like an implanted Ear-Ring, or a ring through the nose, or a piercing, of something slipped under the skin, that does not cost Essence, that is simply Cosmetic. maybe have your Dentist slip in a little something, when you're at it allready? O.o
Oh and how could we forget the Tattoo-Metamagic? o.O
why should that only work for Focus stuff and not fetish stuff?
Oh and how could we forget the Tattoo-Metamagic? o.O
why should that only work for Focus stuff and not fetish stuff?
I would say implanting a fetish beneath the skin and making sure it doesn't poison the user would require an essence loss surgery (not much essence loss but some non the less). I would use the auto injectors as a guide line (as the fetish with non-reacting container would be of similar size).
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Apr 15 2009, 02:58 PM)
I would say implanting a fetish beneath the skin and making sure it doesn't poison the user would require an essence loss surgery (not much essence loss but some non the less). I would use the auto injectors as a guide line (as the fetish with non-reacting container would be of similar size).
Since The Fetish can be made of nearly anything.. could the fetish not simply be made of a material such as ceramic or surgical steel. These kind of implants don't require essence loss otherwise. I'm not familiar with cyberweapon foci, but I presume it requires no further essence loss than the initial implant correct?
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Apr 15 2009, 04:58 PM)
I would say implanting a fetish beneath the skin and making sure it doesn't poison the user would require an essence loss surgery (not much essence loss but some non the less). I would use the auto injectors as a guide line (as the fetish with non-reacting container would be of similar size).
Thing is, though, that sticking crap under the skin has been part of religious beliefs since before people had the ability to write it down. It's just sort of hanging out in there like a pacemaker - it's not actually connected up to any tubing, so to speak.
QUOTE (LamplightSlasher @ Apr 16 2009, 12:12 AM)
Since The Fetish can be made of nearly anything.. could the fetish not simply be made of a material such as ceramic or surgical steel. These kind of implants don't require essence loss otherwise. I'm not familiar with cyberweapon foci, but I presume it requires no further essence loss than the initial implant correct?
Exactly, you pay the Essence for the Spur, then remove it, then enchant it, then build it back in.
And you only lose the essence for the initial implant.
Someone seen the Crow 3?
The one starting with the Guy on the electrical Chair?
Where one of the bad guys had those stainless surgical steel thingies under his skin and they showed up?
Yeah, i imagine something like that. And no, should not take up any essence i think.
And Tattoos, or something in your teeth, or Piercings/Ear-Rings.
On a related note, there's canon evidence that various wizards can do things like drink mercury without any harm. (IIRC, I think it was some sort of taoist longevity potion or some such.)
If you can drink mercury, you can shove a lump of enchanted bone in your forehead without any ill effects (though you'd need to use all appropriate rituals.)
Perhaps this could be some sort of metamagic? It would not be unreasonable that the spellcaster would better be able to use or defend foci implanted in his own body.
There's also the opportunity for weird options - for example, a power focus in the form of a heavy bone hoop that only works if implanted through the spetum. Most characters would likely jump at whatever arbitrarily large bonus you attribute the item, though you could easily give them the distinctive style (messed-up nose) flaw and a whole lot of miscellaneous penalties.
If you can drink mercury, you can shove a lump of enchanted bone in your forehead without any ill effects (though you'd need to use all appropriate rituals.)
Perhaps this could be some sort of metamagic? It would not be unreasonable that the spellcaster would better be able to use or defend foci implanted in his own body.
There's also the opportunity for weird options - for example, a power focus in the form of a heavy bone hoop that only works if implanted through the spetum. Most characters would likely jump at whatever arbitrarily large bonus you attribute the item, though you could easily give them the distinctive style (messed-up nose) flaw and a whole lot of miscellaneous penalties.
The major practical downside to implanting a fetish is a) having a fetish suitable for body modification, and b) having a procedure that doesn't damage the fetish while it's being implanted. Because these are hand-made items and not factory-quality silicone or surgical steel, a certain amount of irritation in the area for a little while after implantation is normal, and depending on the material of the fetish an infection may also be likely.
Naturally, the cost for getting a fetish implanted is separate from the cost of the fetish.
Explicit Implants
Various forms of piercing, microdermal implants (an anchor beneath the skin, allowing jewelry to be attached), and transdermal implants (objects that break the skin) are pretty easy, and many cultures have histories of using such implants (not always for magical purposes, but hey...).
Traditional example:
A dwarf curandero has eight Health fetishes crafted from gems and set in his teeth, using traditional (and painful) Mayan techniques.
Postmodern example:
A human chaos mage has carefully refined a few grains of gold panned from a stream, producing tiny gold flakes that she painstakingly crafts into a version of the Yellow Sign in a moondark ritual she crafted herself. Slipping the tiny, fragile Illusion fetish into a plastic envelope, she makes a visit to a doctor training in Awakened medicine to have the fetish placed as an extraoccular implant. Out of the corner of her vision, sometimes she thinks she can see the Yellow Sign...
Subdermal Implants
Objects that are implanted entirely below the skin, making different shapes.
Traditional example:
A blind elf mystic has a Detection fetish in the form of a dozen hand-blown glass beads on a string of silk; he has these installed on his chest, forming the Braille letters that spell out "eye."
Postmodern example
A troll street sorcerer removes his broken horns and carves a pair of Combat fetishes out of coral; the coral fetishes are implanted beneath the skin of his head and the skin textured to improve the appearance of his new "horns."
Naturally, the cost for getting a fetish implanted is separate from the cost of the fetish.
Explicit Implants
Various forms of piercing, microdermal implants (an anchor beneath the skin, allowing jewelry to be attached), and transdermal implants (objects that break the skin) are pretty easy, and many cultures have histories of using such implants (not always for magical purposes, but hey...).
Traditional example:
A dwarf curandero has eight Health fetishes crafted from gems and set in his teeth, using traditional (and painful) Mayan techniques.
Postmodern example:
A human chaos mage has carefully refined a few grains of gold panned from a stream, producing tiny gold flakes that she painstakingly crafts into a version of the Yellow Sign in a moondark ritual she crafted herself. Slipping the tiny, fragile Illusion fetish into a plastic envelope, she makes a visit to a doctor training in Awakened medicine to have the fetish placed as an extraoccular implant. Out of the corner of her vision, sometimes she thinks she can see the Yellow Sign...
Subdermal Implants
Objects that are implanted entirely below the skin, making different shapes.
Traditional example:
A blind elf mystic has a Detection fetish in the form of a dozen hand-blown glass beads on a string of silk; he has these installed on his chest, forming the Braille letters that spell out "eye."
Postmodern example
A troll street sorcerer removes his broken horns and carves a pair of Combat fetishes out of coral; the coral fetishes are implanted beneath the skin of his head and the skin textured to improve the appearance of his new "horns."
QUOTE
The Astral Eye
Popular with groggies, especially who've lost an eye, this prosthetic resembles a glass eye, but is made of a cache of golden amber recovered from the Black Sea, encircled by a hair-thin orichalcum wire, and engraved with a single potent rune.
The Astral Eye is a prosthetic for magicians, especially those who've lost an eye. The eye is a stacked Anchoring Focus (4) [Astral Window]/Specific Spell [Astral Window] Focus (2); allowing them to scan the astral plane more or less at will. In addition, the eye is a Unique Enchantment, with a Force 3 free ally spirit bound within. The ally possesses the Astral Gateway power, and can use it on the magician bonded to the Astral Eye.
Finally, the Astral Eye uses a Rune enchantment: it only functions when placed within the empty eye-socket of the magician who has bonded the focus (no Essence loss required.) The Eye can be removed with a free action, but doing so immediately de-activates the Eye.
Popular with groggies, especially who've lost an eye, this prosthetic resembles a glass eye, but is made of a cache of golden amber recovered from the Black Sea, encircled by a hair-thin orichalcum wire, and engraved with a single potent rune.
The Astral Eye is a prosthetic for magicians, especially those who've lost an eye. The eye is a stacked Anchoring Focus (4) [Astral Window]/Specific Spell [Astral Window] Focus (2); allowing them to scan the astral plane more or less at will. In addition, the eye is a Unique Enchantment, with a Force 3 free ally spirit bound within. The ally possesses the Astral Gateway power, and can use it on the magician bonded to the Astral Eye.
Finally, the Astral Eye uses a Rune enchantment: it only functions when placed within the empty eye-socket of the magician who has bonded the focus (no Essence loss required.) The Eye can be removed with a free action, but doing so immediately de-activates the Eye.
QUOTE
The section also contains a horribly perverse unique enchantment known as the "Cage of Bone." Wherin a living metahuman (even the magician themselves) is flayed open, and certain runes (the True Name of a free spirit, along with certain binding spells) are inscribed on the living bones of their ribs or skull (requiring a Biotech(6) test, an Enchanting (6) test and Rune Lore (6) test; and dealing a Deadly wound to the suject, who may resist the damage normally, but who must also test for magic loss normally.)
The "Cage of Bone" is a stacked Free Spirit Focus: 6 (useable only for the Free Spirit whose True Name is incorporated into the formula)/Unique Enchantment. To complete the ceremony as described in the book, the magician summons the Free Spirit, which is bound within the unqiue enchantment of the "Cage of Bone." The magician may then command the spirit to aid him with any of it's powers, up to and inclduing Channeling or Possessing (the nature of the Unique Focus is such that even if the spirit somehow later goes free, or is disrupted, it returns to the Cage of Bone. Even if the bearer of the enchantment dies.)
The spell formulae on the back cover is for the Corps Cadavre: 6 spell, as used in the Petro Voudoun tradition.
The "Cage of Bone" is a stacked Free Spirit Focus: 6 (useable only for the Free Spirit whose True Name is incorporated into the formula)/Unique Enchantment. To complete the ceremony as described in the book, the magician summons the Free Spirit, which is bound within the unqiue enchantment of the "Cage of Bone." The magician may then command the spirit to aid him with any of it's powers, up to and inclduing Channeling or Possessing (the nature of the Unique Focus is such that even if the spirit somehow later goes free, or is disrupted, it returns to the Cage of Bone. Even if the bearer of the enchantment dies.)
The spell formulae on the back cover is for the Corps Cadavre: 6 spell, as used in the Petro Voudoun tradition.
Go thank Uncle Ancient History for your nightmares ^^
Ah, that's nothin'. I still remember the conversation that followed the Fellini Manual.
QUOTE
The major practical downside to implanting a fetish is a) having a fetish suitable for body modification, and b) having a procedure that doesn't damage the fetish while it's being implanted. Because these are hand-made items and not factory-quality silicone or surgical steel, a certain amount of irritation in the area for a little while after implantation is normal, and depending on the material of the fetish an infection may also be likely.
Along these lines: I'd wonder if the item in question required ritual treatment or has to maintain some sort of mystical purity standard, which would make just taking any ol' mystic relic and jamming it into your body might cut you off from its power. I'd extend "suitable for modification" to include "won't violate any mojo-related taboo by being used in this fashion." House-rule territory, of course. Keep people from swallowing relics from their local chapel, if nothing else.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 16 2009, 12:35 AM)
Ah, that's nothin'. I still remember the conversation that followed the Fellini Manual.
*shrugs*
i know why i am a fanboy of your work Bobby.
I like your style. You have weird/fantastic ideas.
And a "nice" sense of Humor to boot ^^
hi hi
Even if the item was made out of hazardous or reactive materials, couldn't you just vacuum seal it in a thin plastic layer? I mean you can still use foci and fetishes while holding them in a gloved hand, right?
Even if the item was made out of hazardous or reactive materials, couldn't you just vacuum seal it in a thin plastic layer? I mean you can still use foci and fetishes while holding them in a gloved hand, right?
There the line gets blurry again.
Either you require direct Skin-Conatct,or your aura needs to be touching the aura of whatever it is you are using . .
Depends on what your GM/Group think magic should work like.
You can either not use gloves with those, or you can put them into your pockets and use them without them being seen.
Either you require direct Skin-Conatct,or your aura needs to be touching the aura of whatever it is you are using . .
Depends on what your GM/Group think magic should work like.
You can either not use gloves with those, or you can put them into your pockets and use them without them being seen.
those are some awesome items Ancient, I especially like the Air-Jesus sneakers. I just wish that they were updated for 4th ed
Who knows, maybe in Dawn of the Artifacts? O.o
I am still unsatisfied, that my favourite writer does not have lead in that project <.< . .
Well, we'll see what Tiggi can think up and put in there.
Or maybe, something like the Digital Grimoire will come out later on, that gives some
ideas and / or rules for the creation of such stuff.
I am still unsatisfied, that my favourite writer does not have lead in that project <.< . .
Well, we'll see what Tiggi can think up and put in there.
Or maybe, something like the Digital Grimoire will come out later on, that gives some
ideas and / or rules for the creation of such stuff.
QUOTE
Since The Fetish can be made of nearly anything.. could the fetish not simply be made of a material such as ceramic or surgical steel. These kind of implants don't require essence loss otherwise.
IIRC, even breat implants have an essence cost. I'm not sure about replacement teeth.
QUOTE (LamplightSlasher @ Apr 16 2009, 07:12 AM)
Since The Fetish can be made of nearly anything.. could the fetish not simply be made of a material such as ceramic or surgical steel. These kind of implants don't require essence loss otherwise. I'm not familiar with cyberweapon foci, but I presume it requires no further essence loss than the initial implant correct?
Do you feel that ceramic or surgical steel fetishes are appropriate for the caster's tradition?
Also, Hamster Shaman??
QUOTE (The Mack @ Apr 15 2009, 06:59 PM)
Do you feel that ceramic or surgical steel fetishes are appropriate for the caster's tradition?
Also, Hamster Shaman??
Also, Hamster Shaman??
Har har.... Just examples... Not that I would stop someone from picking Hamster Shaman. It may not carry a lot of street cred, but having those cheek pouches could be handy.
Fetishes are (generally) more limited than foci because whereas you can enchant anything into a focus, fetishes are actually made. I suppose you could get an ampallang piercing and burn some incense over it and chant a few words, but it's not the same.
QUOTE (LamplightSlasher @ Apr 16 2009, 11:07 AM)
Har har.... Just examples... Not that I would stop someone from picking Hamster Shaman. It may not carry a lot of street cred, but having those cheek pouches could be handy.
I don't know if I'd want to go displaying my shamanic mask of the hamster in the redmond barrens.
Of course, you might paralyze the opposition with laughter, giving you enough time to run away.
I heard about a mouse shaman once. Complete with the pacifist flaw.
Man he tore through bug spirits like CRAZY.
Man he tore through bug spirits like CRAZY.
Granted it might fall under the category of "immortal elf magic" but Frosty in Harlequin had one of ehran the scribes spell locks fashioned into her thighbone (iirc), and the Tattoo magic in Awakenings didn't cost essence. I don't think Street Magic mentioned it as possible or impossible at all. If my players asked, I'd probably allow them since there is some precedent in earlier editions.
I don't know. I would say that any implant that requires cutting deep enough into the flesh that it causes bleeding should cost essence. I would almost go as far to say that certain piercings would cost essence (be it very small though). I just feel better when my players wear a harness with all their fetishes pressed against their skin, instead of having them surgically implanted into themselves.
hi hi
Does not the stereotypical shaman have bones, feathers and such all sticking out of piercings in the skin?
Does not the stereotypical shaman have bones, feathers and such all sticking out of piercings in the skin?
Yeah, but who wants to play a stereotype? ^^
Keep in mind the downsides of having a magic item permanently a part of you: not all fetishes are legal (at least without a permit) and it's a dead give away that you're a magician, even if you're masking your aura.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 16 2009, 11:42 AM)
Keep in mind the downsides of having a magic item permanently a part of you: not all fetishes are legal (at least without a permit) and it's a dead give away that you're a magician, even if you're masking your aura.
Which does indeed tend to suck
QUOTE (SpasticTeapot @ Apr 15 2009, 06:26 PM)
If you can drink mercury, you can shove a lump of enchanted bone in your forehead without any ill effects (though you'd need to use all appropriate rituals.)
Dat be Grampy Bone to you...
Sorry, played way too much Fallout 2 in the past, couldn't get it out of my head (but then again that's the point of the thread no?).
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Apr 16 2009, 11:36 AM)
I don't know. I would say that any implant that requires cutting deep enough into the flesh that it causes bleeding should cost essence. I would almost go as far to say that certain piercings would cost essence (be it very small though). I just feel better when my players wear a harness with all their fetishes pressed against their skin, instead of having them surgically implanted into themselves.
The problem becomes where to draw the line. If I "implant" a bullet or knife into you, does it cost essence? As a rule, no.
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Apr 17 2009, 06:31 AM)
The problem becomes where to draw the line. If I "implant" a bullet or knife into you, does it cost essence? As a rule, no.
*snicker* ^^
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Apr 16 2009, 10:31 PM)
The problem becomes where to draw the line. If I "implant" a bullet or knife into you, does it cost essence? As a rule, no.
I do recall in SR2 that surgery could result in essence loss so maybe an "implanted" bullet or knife does have the chance to cost essence (especially if remains inside you afterwards).
That was in SR3 too.
And there were rules for Essence-Loss with Deadly-Damage or something,
And there were rules for Essence-Loss with Deadly-Damage or something,
After I posted that, I figured that might come up. A severe enough wound can cause essence loss, sure, because you're seriously jacking your body up. But a wound deep enough to cause bleeding? A random character could prick his finger on a rose thorn and bleed, or slice open his hand on razor wire. There shouldn't be essence lost for that.
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Apr 17 2009, 09:46 PM)
After I posted that, I figured that might come up. A severe enough wound can cause essence loss, sure, because you're seriously jacking your body up. But a wound deep enough to cause bleeding? A random character could prick his finger on a rose thorn and bleed, or slice open his hand on razor wire. There shouldn't be essence lost for that.
Well of course not, but you could argue that the test to resist essence loss from a trivial wound is next to nothing while a deep wound would be more sever (and thus essence loss is more likely).
Blood is a powerful life source (as seen with Blood Magic). The loss of blood is the loss of some life source (maybe not enough to warrant a loss in essence all the time though).
Yet you don't lose essence when you lose an arm. It's when you get a machine tacked onto the stump that you lose essence.
Well, no, you don't lose essence when losing a limb . . but you can lose essence when you suffer a wound that can lead to you losing the arm . .
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 18 2009, 10:39 AM)
Well, no, you don't lose essence when losing a limb . . but you can lose essence when you suffer a wound that can lead to you losing the arm . .
I'd be willing to bet that the amount of essence lost is significantly less than the cost of a deltaware cyberarm.
It's worth mentioning that a cyberarm is more than just a metal-and-plastic prosthetic attached to the shoulder. You have neural connections that can run straight into the brain or spinal cord and anchoring supports in the surrounding bone and tissue so that the arm doesn't just fall off when you try to lift something heavy.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 18 2009, 04:55 PM)
I'd be willing to bet that the amount of essence lost is significantly less than the cost of a deltaware cyberarm.
Nope, more actually, if i remember correctly . .
Or was that just plain magic without the detour via Essence? O.o
while we're at it . . would a cloned arm that gets attached cost essence?
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 18 2009, 11:06 AM)
Nope, more actually, if i remember correctly . .
Or was that just plain magic without the detour via Essence? O.o
while we're at it . . would a cloned arm that gets attached cost essence?
Or was that just plain magic without the detour via Essence? O.o
while we're at it . . would a cloned arm that gets attached cost essence?
If it's more, that's silly. You could get a deltaware arm, then have your BRAIN MESSED WITH implanting something like a comlink for free (yay essence holes).
Cloned arm: probably, but only a tiny fraction. 0.1 or so I'd wager. It's identical to you except that it's not your original.
1 or 0,1 or 0,01 doesn't matter.
Magic is lost, if you get from full into fraction of essence.
And delta is still impossible to get.
Magic is lost, if you get from full into fraction of essence.
And delta is still impossible to get.
Yes, yes it does.
But do you lose essence for sticking a gold bead just under the skin of your chest? It's not replacing anything, it's just taking up space. Plus it's a magical bead of magicalness.
But do you lose essence for sticking a gold bead just under the skin of your chest? It's not replacing anything, it's just taking up space. Plus it's a magical bead of magicalness.
no, you don't.
that's just cosmetic, nothing invasiv.
compare to bullet hole or knife stabby or something in that size . .
that's just cosmetic, nothing invasiv.
compare to bullet hole or knife stabby or something in that size . .
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