I'm a little confused about electricity damage.

Lets say I attack a security guard with a stun baton, which has a damage of 6S(e). I get 2 net hits so I the guard has to soak 8S damage. The guard rolls his body and armor and gets 5 hits so he takes 3 boxes of stun damage.

Does the guard now have to resist the incapacitation effect (rolling Body+Will with a threshold of 3) on top of taking the damage?

Yes, after resolving the damage, you make the incapacitation Test.

So

Attack Test
Defense Test
Damage Soak Test
Incapacitation Test

Sweet. Thanks chummer.

That, combined with the half-armor thing is the reason why the munchkins love Stick-and-Shock rounds.

Gel rounds would be a viable alternative, but every time they get revised/errata'd, they get worse! Right now, the only thing they have going for them is that they're about 1/3 the cost of stick-n-shock.

-paws

But with SnS you only need a single-shot weapon. No need for burst fire. Where as gel rounds need the burst fire (3+ times the ammo) to be as effective (relatively speaking)

If you don't want to kill someone, you don't have a lot of options vis-a-vis firearms. Gel rounds are just terrible. To be honest, I would think that every reasonably equipped security guard should have Non-conductive armor considering how common electric ammo is (5R rating) and how cheap the mod is (rating x 150). If players are munchkining around with SnS, then start giving your guards rating 6 non-conductivity!

Agreed... Besides, for the Non-Lethal aspect, use Capsule Rounds with Narcojet... Best investment I ever made...

Which is part of the problem. Gel rounds keep getting the nerf and SnS stay just as uber as in SR4's first printing.

When SR4 first came out, Gel was a really, really good option for weapons with a high DV, like shotguns, warhawks, and so on. That +2DV/+2AP in a Warhawk gives you 8S/0AP. In a shotgun it was 9S/+1AP. Even in a Predator IV (with silencer, natch) it was 7S/+1AP. That's pretty solid, really.

Now, IIRC, there's no modification to the DV (the +2 AP is still there, of course), but they have a harder time not getting knocked down. I don't want to knock them down, I want to knock them out!

If funny too because I've never heard anyone complain about Gel, but there seems to be a regular "SNS is too good" thread every few months.


How much does that go for? I don't have Arsenal handy to check, but I thought it was pretty close to the cost of SnS.

-paws

Slab. Narcoject can still damage overflow and kill.

What on earth are you talking about?
Full Auto Suppressive Stick and Shock from my machine pistol.
It's the meaning of life.

BlueMax
/And I am not a gun bunny
// but it sure helps

God no!

You're talking 60 a round. That's nearly two grand to fill one clip for your average SMG.

And they're rubbish. Even mixed with DMSO.

Take a close look at what the BBB has to say about Immediate toxins.

Immediate is in fact entirely the wrong word to describe their efficacy.

SnS for the win every time.





Na man, Lael.

No save, no magic resistance, no 'F' aw pal....

Uh... LOL? I was thinking 60-ish per 10 rounds. I love misplacing decimal points.

That's completely over the top. And I thought Suppressive Fire SnS was expensive. Yowza.

-paws

They're arguing that you need to pay the chemical cost per bullet, not per 10. And that you need to include DMSO per capsule.

Yes, I realize that. I'd like to re-read the passage again, but their assessment sounds right.

I definitely agree with needing to mix DMSO into toxins that aren't Contact vector.

-paws
Argh! Where is my flash drive when I need it?!?!

Shouldn't you be, I don't know...working or something anyways?

No,
He has a tasklist from me.

1. Fix mic.
2. Find server with low ping time for both of us.
3. Burn Spies
4. Burn Spies.
5. Burn Snipers.

BlueMax
/who has a busy weekend of burning ahead of him

Friday before holiday weekend. While its crazy here, most of the crazy is in other departments... For once.



Would you believe I've gone through three mics since I first started using them? One destroyed by the cat, two more by my son... And that's not even counting the pairs of headphones that have gotten mauled.

Next time, why don't you pick the server and I'll follow. I'm not as picky about ping as you.

Oh, sure, you can Full auto (suppressive fire) SnS, but there's no need most of the time. My point was that a single shot SnS is just as good as a short burst of gel rounds (if not better).

and i believe his point is that a full-auto suppresive fire burst is better than both...

He specifically said full auto suppressive SnS.

sorry, my bad... the SnS got left out somehow...

but yeah, as i understand it, his point is that suppressive fire + SnS = win

Indeed.

Double indeed.

Capsuled Narcojet is about 63 Nuyen per Round... (630 Nuyen per 10)

Yep. I'm with you on this one. It'll start next session.

Then they'll start using white phosphorous grenades.

Only if the characters are psychotic...

I call it motivated.

You obviously haven't been reading the trope thread.

I call it efficient.