Sorry you took offense.

Anyway, this cat is great! It's so delicious and moist.

Interesting O.o
that's the first time i have heard about that as a kind of symptome for an allergy o.O

(edit, wrong thread)

*Shrug* it's all I recall about it. Granted, I was tested like 15 years ago and wasn't allowed to eat cashews for a while.

I want to thank you all for helping me realize my dream of infecting the forum with trope-awareness. I wasn't distracting you from buying Mission adventures or anything. Honest.

I was acutely aware of Tropes before, thank you very much . .
That page is worse at letting me work than this board <.<
But not quite as bad as entering anything from marvel/DC universe into wikipedia ^^
At least, you people seem to sleep or do other stuff from time to time . .

Sleep?

What's that?

I know I've heard the term tossed about by the "normal" people, but honestly... I don't get it.

I've noticed that a lot of Shadowrun players tend to have the "I gotta win and be the best character!" attitude. When you are making builds that just do to much and when you are actively trying to find ways to Min/Max a character it is just not fun in my opinion. It does seem to be a hold over from the wargaming days. Seriously, Shadowrun has a very basic format that is really just Dungeons disguised as modern buildings. You plan an attack, you go in, kill things and take their stuff and then sell the loot.

Very old Skool.. I think the problem that alot of veterans have with Fourth edition is the fact that even though the basic wargaming setup is still there, the focus of the game has changed a little. Now they want you to maintain contacts, cater more to the group dynamic, entertain the idea of being a social PC. Things have changed, I say that is good.

Just play the game and help make a story. Yes, Shadowrun uses a lot of tropes (Not as many as RIFTS! Man I have had too much fun on tvtropes.) The fun of the setting is to make believable characters that can interact with it. Not Mr. Lucky which really relies on how nice your GM is (I would enforce the optional Long Shot Rule where every -3 modifier creates a -1 modifier with the caveat that the dice cannot be reduced by one. There, you keep the ability to do impossible things but it doesn't mean you will succeed, just like it should be.) Anyway, pornomancers and all of these so-called "uber" builds are not fun for the group (Unless they like that kind of thing).

You win when the group has fun with the story, not when you argue and twink rules all night long. I hate to say it but the way some people on this board try to dissect the rules, I would not play in your group.. If I wanted to examine and dissect rules, I would go to school.

There are lots of ways to min/max characters, but Mr. Lucky and the pornomancer are hardly min-maxed - they are only maxed. They are viable builds, but they would be more viable if they didn't sacrifice so much for their main schtick.

Shadowrun is more complex than a wargame. Shadowrunners need to be able to utilize stealth, to gather information, to deal with networks of underworld contacts that they need in order to continue their existence between the cracks of the information society. You are hardly limited to shooting things. You can be an information broker, a high stakes negotiator, a getaway driver, an unlicensed medic, a covert infiltration specialist, a social chameleon and master of disguise, or a million other roles.

You can get unrealistic characters by being too hyper-focused - the character should be someone who could plausibly have survived on their own before meeting the group. But you can also make unrealistic characters by getting too creative with the open build system, making a complex, three-dimensional character but forgetting the premise of the game. Namely, that you are putting together someone who works under the table doing dangerous, demanding work, with a group of fellow professionals. A character should be able to survive such a pressure-cooker environment, and have skills that would make a Johnson hire him, and make a team of hardened mercenary-minded people want to work with him.

It might be a blast playing a deaf-mute former BTL addict who has an assault rifle he barely knows how to shoot, but unless the campaign is full of similar quirky concepts, you will either quickly suffer a messy, violent end, or you will be forcing the GM and players to metagame for the sake of your "roleplaying". Which is hardly fair.

All of the bolded parts in the quote I agree with you.

I don't even think those "uber" builds are viable at all but I am not trying to argue that at all.

I was also saying that you are right, Shadowrun has become way more complex as then a war game.. I just said it has certain wargaming roots. I mean even the website this Thread came from calls Shadowrun Dungeon Punk.. It is true.

You say it much better than I do in the last sentence. The GM has to grab hold of thereigns and say, "That character is not going to work." Shadowrun problems solved..

Or to sum it up: Just have fun and PLAY THE GAME. Seriously, the rules are just a guideline to play the game, they really don't need all of the dissecting and tweaking and powergaming.

Just curious... Am I the only person here that found TVtropes to be horribly uninteresting?

-paws

They do if that's what's fun for you. And, frankly, the rules are really only guidelines if you're gaming with a regular group. In today's world of meetups and PbP, it's becoming (thankfully) less and less true.

The more pages I read the less I find intriguing. I can generally thus limit myself to only about 3 pages at a time, or less now.

I was going to respond to the metagame statement but instead...

I agree the TV tropes are pretty bland.

Some are better than others. What's really the time-suck is if you start reading the examples.

Rules are always guidelines. Rule #0: If the rules get in the way of the story on fun, kill it on the spot or change it or GM fiat or whatever. Wait, I think we are kind of agreeing..

I did say though that if twinking the rules and dissecting rules and all that makes you and your group happy then so be it.. That is not how is goes in my game though. I love rules but I don't try to take advantage of every loophole I see. I rather play an interesting character rather than a "uber" build.

YCMV

This is something I sincerely hope the RPG community moves away from.


I really want to know why you think these are mutually exclusive.

One of the problems I have with TV tropes is that they are a website of memes. TVtropes.org is a suppository for mind viruses that keep spreading from one person to the other. You do know that the more you read, the more likely are you use the memes in writing creating further swaths of mediocrity.

I recommend stop reading now before I start describing disturbing images of Damien Knight, Nadja's nipples and a draconic dildo and you actually start imagining your favourite object of lust into the mix.

No, you're not alone on this one.

I agree on the "loophole" thing. I tend to differentiate logical min-maxing (sammie with Agility: 5, muscle toner: 4 with the restricted gear quality, ranged weapon skill of 6 with specialization, smartlink, and reflex recorder, for example) and out-and-out exploitation of the rules (bloodzilla, weapons sprites using diagnostics on smartlinks, etc.). Note that even the former should be consistent with the character - it's something I would do for, say, a former company man, but not for a smuggler from the bayou.


I disagree about the "rules as guidelines" thing. The GM should be able to make on the spot rulings when a rule is ambiguous, and use whatever house rules are appropriate to his or her campaign. But the rules should still be fairly and consistently applied. The rules allow players to quantify the abilities of their characters, resolve the actions of their characters, and allow a truly random element to enter the game. "Story" is far less important - if the players can't affect the outcome, the GM is railroading.

Just FYI: those exist.

And by two different companies in 8 or 10 different designs and at least 3 sizes (from "normal" to "the size of your arm").

"Uber" builds make for ridiculous Min/Max episodes. I am sorry but as GM, I do not want to have to plan Whole runs out around the fact that I have a pornomancer and Mr. Lucky in my team. They take too much attention for themselves. Do you like when the hacker (or decker) takes up all of the game session time just to resolve his stuff? It would feel the same way if the pornomancer took all of the fun out of the game because she just walks up and seduces everybody and the other characters just go 'Hell, I am just going back home. Call me when your done here." It isn't fun when ANY character outshines all the rest. Making a strong character is awesome. Making a strong character just to be a munchkin, not so cool. I just think playing more believable characters makes the game a lot more enjoyable. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

On the other hand, if your group loves to power game then so be it, have fun.. In the end, have fun with Shadowrun anyway you choose. I just don't want those types of characters in my campaigns and I don't play them as a matter of principle.




I think people are misunderstanding me here. This is what I am actually trying to say. What I have bolded in your quotes is what I have been saying all along. The GM has the right to make rulings on any rule in the game. I am not saying kill every rule and play it that way. I don't like free-form personally. I also don't like rules light.

What is important is that the group is having fun and contributing to the story. The story is not what the GM wants to tell but what the WHOLE group sits down to tell during a session. The rules are there for a reason but we all know that EVERY system has its quirks and ambiguous rules. The GM has the right to make a ruling on this, of course with the player's approval as well. The rules also form the "Guideline" of how to play the game, but the devs are not perfect and everything may not work exactly right for your group. Change the rule then, not drop the rules altogether.

I hope that clears things up a bit..

You do know now I will have to ask: which of the 8-10 designs did you find to be the best? And was there one you can use an endoscope with.

Question 1: Maybe. But I think I'll keep that answer private.

Question 2: Yes. Though you'd have to have your own endoscope and you're on your own making it work, as it isn't intended for such.

La la la la la can't hear you la la la la la!

Or, to put it more politely, maybe PM's might be in order for this sort of thing.

You have a point and I am long-winded..

Mission Accomplished: I wierded someone out.

I would not consider this a complete victory until it involves scrubbing of the brain, clawing out your eyes, or sitting back in numb horror/awe. On the other hand, this is a hard crowd to please.

Oh, it's not so much that I'm weirded out as I don't think an Shadowrun RPG thread is the place to talk about anthropomorphic dildos. General Gaming, maybe.

Y'know, you'd really be amazed at what sites come up for "research purposes."

Does it ever bother anyone that SR doesn't do Instant Runes?

Who says it doesn't?
Especially with AR Overlay, that should be easy ^^
Or make it Part of the MAge-Mask or something.
Also, for the weirding out part:
you don't get weirded out easy, if you remember about goatse, tubgirl, two girls one cup, glassass and whatever else the intartswebs can come up with.
usually, frequenting certain chains is enough to harden someone up. oh, and giving out such codewords to the curious and watching the drama unfold is
pretty mean. but somehow, immensly satisfying too O.o

Hey now. I could've posted a picture of the toy.*

Though doing so likely would have gotten me a ban.

*Or worse. Followed by a IP Ban For Life

Actually, it's one of my favorite things about SR magic. Why SHOULD magic be all instant runes?

Tron Lines, on the other hand....

Yeah, when SRO was still alive and kicking, i asked for the MAtrix to look like Tron. And i would have gotten it too, if it weren'T for those meddling Microshafters and their stupid C&D! <.<

*grin* We should just start a thread somewhere with a heavily NSFW tag attached and just discuss the weird shit that's come up tangentally around here. Last time I think we devolved into discussion of Shirow's fetish for weird porn.

Edit: I mean c'mon, look at the first quote in my sig!

I can't find the post that came from, sadly. One, "dracoyoai" returns no results.

And for some reason, one of the +dragon +porn searches I did told me I'd used a term that wasn't allowed (such as "html" or "img"). Not that a working search returned anything particularly useful in this regard.

You won't find it. That quote was pulled from a depraved PM exchange between rm and myself.

AH, of course.

Now I just looked at a lot of Draco Malfoy and Harry Potter Yaoi.

Back to safer things...

Can we get a NSFW section on this forum? That way I can post up all the Shadowrun yaoi fanfiction which AH and I have written.

Everywhere is NSFW if certain people are around eh? *snickers*

But I am as innocent as one of the daughters of Lot!

If you're familiar with sixteen year old girls (I'm not either, for the matter) then you're familiar with one of their favorite past-times - man love. We're talking full on, beautiful, "lovely" man love. Being that I'm myself quite straight, this concept throws me.

I'm not going into the psychology of it, but young girls love the concept of two men being in love with each other, especially fictional characters. And they express that love by writing fanfiction, drawing artwork, or combining the two into comics / manga.

Man / man love in Japan and the resultant comics are called "yaoi", which is pronounced like yaow-wee. A friend of mine jokes that this comes from males stumbling across it - "Yay! Porn! Oi, guys!".

(of course there's a female / female variation - "yuri" - you can make assumptions as to why I know this)

At one point Wes and I were discussing Ryumyo and Lung and I joked that seeing as the two were Asian and that man-love is huge in Japan (I don't know about China, I'm just speaking from experience here), that I wouldn't be surprised if there existed a huge following in the East for Ryu / Lung slash works. I'm talking whole Matrix space devoted entirely to the concept of Ryumyo and Lung doing the nasty with each other and all of their fighting being viewed as simple lover's quarrels. In fact, re-thinking about it now, I could see how these shippers would do it - Lung is the stern teacher and Ryu the mewling student.

Okay, I just envisioned dragon BSDM. Damn it damn it damn it.

Just imagine the fact that dragons are seen as the most impossibly awesome creatures ever. They're in the spotlight all the time. They're rich, powerful, have personalities, they're bigger than freaking life. And when they assume human form, they're usually hyper-real, right? Fangirls go crazy over that shit.

Dunk is probably more famous over in the UCAS, with Ghostwalker probably being a close second. Lofy is the jerk with a heart of gold that no one except his special lover can touch. There's probably a straight Dunk / Hestaby fiction out there too. I dunno what to say about Masaru, and I know that Aden would probably be used in some of the more...goreriffic / dominant / freaky stuff. Hestaby's the only known female, right?

If Catalyst ever hired me to write, this would probably sneak itself in there somewhere. And it would be awesome.

*puts on the cat ears*

Now I have this sudden urge on writing Ryumyo on Lung fiction. I am sure it is better than 95% of the other erotica out there. Do dragons have nipples?

Of course my players are going to complain about me not working on their game.

Look at the cover of Dragons of the Sixth world.
They have Nipples AND get them Pierced by something that would be about the Size of an Arm-Band or Choker on most Metahumans.
As long as you refrain from writing the sex act with one of them being in draconic form and the other in his metahuman form, do it.
And YOU are about as innocent as Aztechnology ^^

Quibble: It's only "yaoi" if it's in a comic format. Otherwise it's "slashfic." And it's so very sad that I know this. If anyone is a fan of the webcomic Diesel Sweeties, the character of Kate lists her occupation as "yaoi tester".


If your dragons are Petting Zoo People, sure why not? Makes about as much sense as female Dragonborn with mammary glands (maybe they're more like platypi than dinosaurs?) and Immortal Elves as the offspring of elves and... dragonkind.

*shudder*

I like fantasy. I really, really do. But that IE origin story (and my Earthdawn knowledge is only what I've gleaned from AH's site and this board so I don't know if it's legit...) bothers me for a multitude of reasons.

If they're mammals, I don't see why not. Irene Radford had mammalian dragons (fur, live birth, milk-for-young, the whole deal).

But reptiloid dragons? No. Keep your tits off my reptiles.

D&D 4E Dragonkin: WotC doesn't know anything about anything. Dragonkin have neither wings nor tails which is half the point of playing a half dragon. Rule of Cool. Wings are cool, tails are cool. Tail-less semi-reptiles are not cool.

Dragons have Nipples in SR, deal with it.

I'll need proof on that one, if you don't mind.