...couldn't find what I was looking for.

So, while waiting for my TF2 update to download last night, I had the opportunity to kill some time with Runner's Companion. Eventually I came to the Priority-Based Character Creation. It's... interesting. More complex than in previous editions, but still workable (once I copied everything into ONE chart). I think I like it.

Does anyone have any practical experience with it?

-paws

EDIT: Here's the link to the index, further down the thread.
EDIT 2: In case by sig changes, here's the link to the newest version of the Streamlined SR4 Priority System (PDF)

We tried but it gimps skillgroups.
In the group I run, the average character has 4 skill groups. Many have more.

BlueMax

if you need to make a character fast, like 10 to 15 minutes, the system works

for indept, well planned characters. no

Does your group use BP or Karma Gen normally? How many points do you folks allow?

-paws

400 Points BP.
We are a very skill and contact heavy lot. But people are happy to take a skill group at 1 or 2. Former Company man had Influence 3, Stealth 2, Firearms 4, CloseCombat 3 and Electronics 2.

That said, for our Missions campaign we have gone cheesy and people take just Spellcasting and Counterspelling. Now they each have 3 skill groups. The "meat" has Athletics, Firearms and CloseCombat. Each of the three TMs has Tasking, Electronics and Cracking. So now we are down to three.

I don't think they will even give you three on the Priority System. The system feels like it was added just as a checkbox.

BlueMax
/yeap, we have it, now we can tell them to shove it
// Like GenCon west!

I have messed around with Priority char-gen a bit. It is frustrating, and almost unworkable, as opposed to the SR3 version, which was actually fast and very usable. The biggest problem is that there are a lot of areas, such as Attributes, where almost any player takes the equivalent of Priority A or B all of the time. In 400 BP, you can pare down one or two non-essential areas to have a mage with 200 BP in Attributes and high Resources and a Magic of 5 with a good spell selection. Far from being easy to use, the SR4 Priority system makes it difficult to create decent, playable characters.

So, I've been tinkering with the Priority System for the past few days. Why? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe I'm just pining for the "good old days" of SR2? All these SR2 and SR3 posts that have been popping up lately certainly have been looking back... No school like the old school, as they say.

Anyway, after converting several characters, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) The system is MUCH¹ simpler to use if you distill everything down to a single chart. Maybe its just me, but I flew through character creation after re-working the priority chart.

2) Priority built characters have a SR1/SR2 feel to them (glee!). While the SR4(A) BBB sample characters feel like established pros (for the most part), the Priority built characters seem like they might just be getting their feet wet.

2a) I would definitely favor Priority for a "street level" game.

3) I haven't converted any of the gear heavy characters yet, but the characters seem to end up poor. I'm going to tackle a couple of the riggers and/or street samurai tonight if I get a chance. It'll be interesting to see how that works out.

4) Converting from earlier editions is a breeze. So far, every SR1/SR2 character I've touched as fallen into almost exactly the same spots on the priority chart.

4a) Characters with Magic and high Resources are still a royal bitch. Heaven forbid you try to make the character a metahuman too! Which, as I think about it, is okay by me.

5) One huge issue I have is with the suggested optional rules for Priority. Some of these should have been included as part of the core priority system. In particular, qualities, bonding foci, binding spirits, and registering sprites should have included. I know they add complexity, but the concept of buying a focus, but having it unbonded at game start is, well... stupid bad. And some character utterly fail without including allowing qualities. (see: Gunslinger Adept) (see also: Shamans - uh, Mentor Spirit anyone?)

5a) Contact Points are a cool idea, but easily the most complex of the suggested optional rules (which isn't saying that much, I guess). It occurred to me that allowing players to burn CPs for things like bonding, binding, etc. would make for an interesting house rule.

¹ I don't usually capitalize (shout) for emphasis, but this deserved it. The Priority Chart really should have been presented as one complete chart, not a main chart plus two or three smaller ones². Cross Referencing yields nothing but Epic Fail for a system that's supposed to be "fast."

² Seriously, even if its just a couple other charts it makes it harder to commit to memory. And you need to be able to go by memory if you intend to crank out a couple dozen characters a week during study hall! Unless of course you want to be that guy and bust out with your "weirdo books."

-paws

I'm creating an SR4 game for a Con this winter and I thought about using the archetypes out of the book for people to play. I decided that for such a short game Qualities were just going to be confusing and get in the way of ease of play so I decided to make my own characters instead of dickering with the BPs of the archetypes.

Being a fan of the old priority generation system I decided to use the rules from the Runner's Companion. I was able to almost exactly recreate the Street Samurai, Infiltration Specialist, and Hacker with only some cosmetic differences.

I personally like priority character generation. I've always found that having the limitations that it imposes on a player makes them pretty creative in how they make their characters.

Old school for the win! Mages shouldn't have money or attributes

A - Magic: Snake Shaman
B - Skills: 30
C - Race: Elf
D - Money: 5,000! / 15 force points
E - Attributes: 17

Yep, that's my character for the campaign we're about to play. She's pretty awesome.

If you're looking for the good old days of SR2... Well, it's still here. In all of its absurd glory. Re-convert to SR2! The wired world awaits!

@Chibu:

Yeah, Snake Shamans were whipass.

As for playing SR2... well, my group is pretty happy with SR4. Since I have a SR newbie who's still learning the rules, I think switching things up right now would be detrimental.

Anyway, since we don't have a full-time hacker, I don't need to worry too much about wireless. Everyone pretty much uses AR.

@ShadowPavement:

I'd love to take a look and see what your finished priority system characters look like.

-paws

No problem paws. You can find the files here http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=14d322b...75a55d6a9515688

As they stand the characters may not look as much like the archetypes as they did when I started out. I did a little adjustment so that the characters each had their own niche in the group with something useful to contribute during the con game.

The way I created them was by actually opening the BBB to the archetype pages and used the priority system to try and exactly recreate what was on the page. Worked pretty well for the most part.

I'm sorry this is probably off topic, but what is TF 2?

Hey Paws, would you be willing to pass along the single chart you made for Priority Char Gen?

Team Fortress 2, one of the greatest if not the greatest FPS(first person shooters) out there. Download it off steam its worth the money.

I occasionally play as Shinobi Killfist, but I'm currently on wireless and its a pain. If I had a better connection I'd likely live on it.

By "worth the money" they aren't joking. $20 for just TF2, or $30 for The Orange Box (TF2, Portal (another worth the $20 game), Half Life 2 and Eps 1 and 2).

Thanks for the clarification.

I too would like to see that priority chart.

I think I can arrange that. I'll post a link when its available


Portal, by the way, is an awesome first person puzzle game. Highly worth it.

-paws

They are also working on a sequel if the Steam beta testing options are any guide.

This links straight to the file: SR4 Priority System (condensed).

Cleaned the table up a bit and polished up my notes on each priority for clarity. Let me know what you think. Anything that could be clearer? More user friendly? More streamlined?

-paws

EDIT: I just realized I accidentally labeled a house rule for Group Contacts as Optional in the "Resources and Contacts Priority" summary. For those interested, it was originally intended to simulate the ability to buy an entire gang (or similar group) as a contact, like you could in previous editions. Sorry for any confusion.

Thank you for the link.

Yes, thanks for the link Paws. The chart looks great and really does simplify things a great deal.

Have you had a chance to look at the priority characters I posted? I'd like to get your feedback on them.

I've downloaded them, but I haven't printed them out yet. One thing I did catch was that one of the characters (the Hacker, I think...) had a Skill Group at 5. The normal starting limit is 4.

Also...
I've found more errors on my file! Holy crap, I thought I'd done a better job with this thing.

• Added notes indicating which rules are Optional and which rules are House Rules.
• Added Adept (Magic 1) as Talent Priority D. This was inadvertently left off the original chart.
• Added description of the Contact Points Optional Rule.

Version 2.0 can be found here.

-paws

Doh! Thanks chummer. I've been looking at these characters alot lately so something like that may just "look right" to my brain at the moment, even if it isn't.

Am I seeing this right? With the Priority System it is not possible to play a Troll Mage with Magic 5 or 6?

I'm thinking the answer to your question is no. It looks like you can do Heritage B and Talent A and have a troll magician with Magic 5, along with one Special Attribute Point you can use to bump Edge to 2 or Magic to 6.

Correct, sir!

Alternatively, you could take Heritage Priority A: Troll (4) and Talent Priority B: Magician (Magic 3, 5 spells). Use 3 points from Heritage to bump your Magic to 6 and the last point to bump Edge to 2. (Or you could do Magic 5, Edge 3). You loose out on 4 spells this way though.

-paws

Ah, that makes much more sense, thanks for clearing that up for me

No problemo.

-paws

Would anyone be interested in taking a look at the BP to Priority conversions I've been working on?

-paws

Er ... the what, now? Is that character conversions or ...?

Nothing original at the moment, just some conversion of various archetypes to SR4's Priority System.
-paws

That'd be pretty cool, yeah.

Priority System Character Index

Note: The characters presented in this index have all appeared in official Shadowrun books at one point or another, unless otherwise noted, of course.

Shadowrun 1st/2nd Edition

• Bodyguard
• Burned-Out Mage Updated!
• Combat Mage
• Decker
• Detective
• Dwarf Mercenary
• Dwarf Street Samurai
• Elven Decker
• Elven Mage
• Elven Street Samurai
• Former Company Man
• Former Mage Detective
• Former Military Officer (Low-Grade)
• Former Tribal Warrior
• Former Wage Mage
• Gang Member
• Ghost Hunter
• Houngan (Mambo)
• Merc
• Ork Mercenary
• Ork Street Samurai
• Rigger
• Rocker
• Shaman
• Street Mage
• Street Samurai (v1)
• Street Shaman
• Street Sorcerer
• Street Warrior
• Tribesman
• Troll Former Bounty Hunter
• Troll Street Samurai

Shadowrun 3rd Edition

• Adept (Martial Artist)
• Combat Decker (Ork)
• Combat Mage (Troll)
• Covert Ops Specialist (Elf)
• Drone Rigger (Dwarf)
• Face (Elf)
• Investigator (Ork)
• Mercenary (Troll)
• Sprawl Ganger (Troll)
• Street Samurai (v2)
• Street Shaman (Ork)
• Tech-Wiz (Dwarf)
• Tribal Shaman (Dwarf)
• Weapon Specialist

Shadowrun 4th/Anniversary Edition

• Bounty Hunter (Troll)
• Combat Mage (Elf)
• Covert Ops Specialist
• Drone Rigger (Dwarf)
• Enforcer (Troll)
• Face (Dwarf)
• Gunslinger Adept (Ork)
• Hacker (Ork)
• Occult Investigator New!
• Radical Eco-Shaman (Dwarf) (SR4)
• Radical Eco-Shaman (Dwarf) (SR4A)
• Smuggler (Elf) (SR4)
• Smuggler (SR4A)
• Sprawl Ganger (Ork)
• Street Mage (Runner's Companion Sample Character)
• Street Samurai (v1) (SR4)
• Street Samurai (v2) (SR4A)
• Street Shaman (Troll)
• Street Witch (BBB Sample Character)
• Technomancer
• Weapon Specialist (Dwarf) (BBB Sample Character)
• Weapon Specialist (Elf)

Burned-Out Mage
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Contacts (SR2)

Description
The Burned-Out Mage isn't a true magical burnout, but he's lost much of his passion for the art. While trying to get an edge over the competition, he made a mistake and turned to cyberware and bioware. His augmentations have given him a technological edge, but they've also impaired his magical abilities. He can no longer call forth the raw power he once could and the loss has made him seem bitter and cynical. He hasn't completely given up the magical path, but since the implants, he can't seem to shake the feeling that the Power is slipping away, bit by bit.

Detective
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
The detective leads a hard life, balanced between the shadows of crime and the harsh glare of corporate and city life. To keep his own code of honor and justice intact, he makes constant compromises to get through the day, or the night. He'll tell you a man has to stand on his own two feet, a claim he stands by, even going so far as to avoiding magic and augmentations, except in the direst, most life threatening situations.

Troll Street Samurai
Appearances: Street Samurai Catalog (all versions), Contacts (SR2)

Description
The troll Street Samurai, what more need be said? Well, quite a lot, actually. It is no secret that street-smart trolls often gravitate toward questionable lines of work, but any trog can kill people. What sets the troll Street Samurai apart from the common thugs, gangers, and enforcers of his metatype is the strict, Bushido-like code of honor that he tries to live his life by. He's no saint and certainly lacks social grace, but he is as honest and capable a warrior as one could ever hope for in these modern times.

Tribesman
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition.
Similar: Amerindian Tribesperson contact (Runner's Companion, page 134)

Description
Born and raised on a back-to-the-land commune deep in NAN territory, the Tribesman learned the "old ways" of hunting, fishing, horseback riding, and casino management. It was a paradise, but the Tribesman always felt he was missing something. When he was of age, he packed his things and headed for the nearest big city. He's a bit of a fish out of water because of his upbringing, but he's quickly adapting to the modern world. He's even acquired a basic commlink, an item that was quite taboo back home. His ties to the eco-movement provide him with a cause and, perhaps more importantly, work when others in the corporate dominated shadows might shun him for his heritage.

Troll Former Bounty Hunter
Appearances: Sprawl Sites, Contacts (SR2)
Similar: Bounty Hunter (SR4, SR4A)
Note: The original Former Bounty Hunter and newer Bounty Hunter archetypes aren't too different in outlook and abilities, so they get to share an entry.

Description
If you need someone tracked down, trailed, or brought in, the troll bounty hunter is your man. He's a veteran of the rough and tumble, but otherwise legal, world of bounty hunting. He spent years tracking down bail jumpers, runaways, escaped criminals, and dangerous paracritters. His exposure to the shadows was inevitable, really. He did a job for some folks who weren't quite legit and lost his license over it. Looking to make ends meet, he's picked up a few more jobs since. Jobs that were more much interesting and better paying than tracking down bail jumpers.

Gang Member
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
The sprawl is a mean place and you've got to be tough to live on its streets. The sprawl ganger is tough, resourceful, and clever, though not well educated. He's connected. He knows the movers and shakers on the street, or knows how to get in touch with them. He's also in the know on numerous illegal activities. He might have the stuff to be a top notch runner someday.

Shaman
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
She's a holy woman, touched by the spirits and blessed with the power to perform great works of magic. Once upon a time, she used her gifts for the good the tribe, but her totem has compelled her to undertake a spiritual journey and see the world. Her journey has taken many twists and turns, some darker than others. Presently, she is winding her way through the darker side of the shadows.

Street Shaman
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
Some shamans think the city is a blight, a dead place filled with wickedness and disease. The street shaman has a different view. He sees the glittering neon lights, AR displays, and dirty streets, but he also sees beyond that. To him, the city has a pulse, a vibrancy and life of its own. It isn't always pretty, but it is alive. When he works his magic, the he comunes with the spirits of glass and steel, electron elementals, and the ghosts of forgotten dreams.

Ork Gunslinger Adept
Appearances: Shadowrun 4th Edition, Shadowrun Anniversary Edition

Descriptions
She grew up on a diverse diet of Hong Kong action movies, gunslinging Westerns, and retro anime, so it probably shouldn't surprise anyone that the gunslinger adept has a preoccupation with firearms. She's a gun for hire with the reflexes and grace to match, if not shame, most street samurai.

Street Witch
Appearances: Shadowrun 4th Edition, Shadowrun Anniversary Edition

Description
Not every magician has the benefit of a formal education or a corporation willing to provide some on the job education. The Street Witch wouldn't really want those things even if they had ever been offered. She's a street savvy survivor who's made her way through hard work, determination, and the willingness to make tough choices. She's nobody's fool, so don't try to con her or you might end up on the business end of a lightning bolt spell.

Adept (Martial Artist)
Appearances: Shadowrun 3rd Edition

Description
The Warrior's Way isn't the only Way, far from it, but when you ask someone on the street what the word adept means to them, you're more likely than not to find people associating adepts with combat, especially martial arts. After spending years honing his body and skills to the exclusion of all else, it might seem a bit strange to find him suddenly pursuing a career as a shadowrunner. He has a reason though, even if he isn't saying what it is. Perhaps he's out for revenge? Maybe he's decided it's time to explore the world? Or maybe he's learned everything he can at the dojo and wants to expand his horizons? Whatever the case, he's an effective, if low tech, addition to any team.

Former Wage Mage
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
Slick corporate recruiters will promise everything under the sun and moon just to get a magician in the door. Often, these young magicians discover too late that a fat credstick doesn't make up for the rigid corporate life. The former Wage Mage finally had enough of it and made arrangements to leave her old employer. Don't bother asking how she pulled it off because she's won't discuss it. Just know that she's well trained and has no reservations about taking runs against her former employer.

Former Company Man
Appearances: Shadowrun 1st Edition, Shadowrun 2nd Edition

Description
The Former Company Man is a veteran of the cutthroat corporate world. For months, or maybe years, he kept tabs on the competition for his employers, kept them safe, or eliminated them, as ordered. He was very good at his job. One day, he left. Disappeared himself for a while. Next time anyone saw him, he was working the shadows. Don't ask about his departure from that life, but rumor has it that it was bloody and unpleasant. He's severed most of his old ties and works the shadows as a freelancer, using his skills to pursue and protect the people he chooses to.

Sweetness! This is awesome Paws. If you don't mind I think I'll copy these and add them to my "need a quick npc" file.

From a BP to priority standpoint, the priority system seems balanced, but it overall seems tacked on an doesn't represent game play realities very well at all. I have never seen a BP character only spend 120 BP on attributes, usually it is 180-200, because attributes make the character. Similarly, metatypes are valued too high, you should never have to waste your A/B priority on meta, trolls are good, not that good.

The priority system is needlessly restrictive and feels rather tacked on. That said, it is useful for quickly making NPCs, or for players who are not good with BP systems.

One of the of reasons I'm doing this, actually. Well, that, my OCD, and nostalgia.



I would agree that the attributes are a little bit on the low end, but your 120 BP example is for Priority E, the worst you can get. Compare to Priority A, where you have 200 BP worth of attributes.

The point about metahumans is fair, especially if you're used to SR3 and SR4. Its still better than SR1/SR2 though, where you had to pay Priority A for any metahuman. Oh and if you want to talk about getting the shaft, in SR1 you got a randomly rolled allergy just because you spent your Priority A on metahuman.

Personally, I find the number of skills Priority characters have to be pretty wonky. Lots of individual skills, few skill groups, no specializations. Definitely not like how I build characters using the BP system. (And I keep forgetting to buy Dodge and Perception - d'oh!)



Well, I cut my teeth on SR1's Priority System (their only system until the SR2 Shadowrun Companion, natch) back in The Old Days ™, so I'm quite comfortable with this. I'm probably repeating myself, but it produces characters that appear to be just starting out, where the BP system lends itself to more established runners.

This system has its flaws, as does the BP and Karma Gen... and they all produce different sorts of characters too.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. Use it if you want to. Or not.

-paws

PS More characters coming as soon as I get gear worked out (still the most time consuming part of character creation ). Anyone want a particular archetype or two bumped to the head of the queue?

I am really loving these writeups. Kudos.