Quick, simple question: Does an adept's Improved Ability power break up a skill group?
Example: Gunslinger Adept has Firearms Group: 4 and Improved Ability (Pistols): 2. This modifies the Pistols skill to 4(6).
What say you, Dumpshockers? Is the group broken or not?
-paws
Full Version: Adept Improved Ability
No,It doesn't break the Group because by RAW its no Spezialisation.
with an improved Dance
Medicineman
with an improved Dance
Medicineman
QUOTE (paws2sky @ May 27 2009, 08:11 AM) 
Quick, simple question: Does an adept's Improved Ability power break up a skill group?
Example: Gunslinger Adept has Firearms Group: 4 and Improved Ability (Pistols): 2. This modifies the Pistols skill to 4(6).
What say you, Dumpshockers? Is the group broken or not?
-paws
Example: Gunslinger Adept has Firearms Group: 4 and Improved Ability (Pistols): 2. This modifies the Pistols skill to 4(6).
What say you, Dumpshockers? Is the group broken or not?
-paws
All that happens is Firearms is used at Skill level 4. When using Pistols, you use Firearms 4 and add 2 dice (from Improved Ability) to the pool.
I'd actually wager that by RAW it does break.
Improved ability is an actual skill increase, not a dice modifier, and skill groups break if you raise one of the skills in them on its own.
Improved ability is an actual skill increase, not a dice modifier, and skill groups break if you raise one of the skills in them on its own.
QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 27 2009, 09:14 AM)
I'd actually wager that by RAW it does break.
Improved ability is an actual skill increase, not a dice modifier, and skill groups break if you raise one of the skills in them on its own.
Improved ability is an actual skill increase, not a dice modifier, and skill groups break if you raise one of the skills in them on its own.
The Gunslinger Archetype in SR4A has the Firearms Group with Improved Ability Pistols. It doesn't break the group.
QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 27 2009, 05:14 PM)
Improved ability is an actual skill increase, not a dice modifier, and skill groups break if you raise one of the skills in them on its own.
It is a skill modifier, not an actual increase.
QUOTE (Malachi @ May 27 2009, 10:45 PM)
The Gunslinger Archetype in SR4A has the Firearms Group with Improved Ability Pistols. It doesn't break the group.
I didn't look too closely at the archetypes in SR4A, but with IIRC every single archetype in SR4 being wrong on at least one account, I don't think that's too good a reason.
QUOTE
It is a skill modifier, not an actual increase.
All right, it looks like I'm wrong, so I relent. I agree that it makes more sense anyway, I just don't find anything in the book that makes modified skill ratings work differently than natural skill ratings in that regard.
I don't know, guys:
The wording couldn't be clearer, and even includes the X 1.5 limit which applies to skill increases, not bonus dice.
QUOTE
Improved Ability
Cost: .5 per level (Combat skills),
.25 per level (Physical, Social, Technical, and Vehicle skills)
This power increases the rating of a specific Active skill by 1 per
level. A skill’s maximum modified rating equals its base rating x 1.5.
Improved ability must be purchased for a specific skill, not a skill group.
Cost: .5 per level (Combat skills),
.25 per level (Physical, Social, Technical, and Vehicle skills)
This power increases the rating of a specific Active skill by 1 per
level. A skill’s maximum modified rating equals its base rating x 1.5.
Improved ability must be purchased for a specific skill, not a skill group.
The wording couldn't be clearer, and even includes the X 1.5 limit which applies to skill increases, not bonus dice.
QUOTE
[...]A skill's maximum modified rating equals its base rating x 1.5.[...]
That's the moneyshot. Also, every NPC with Improved Ability can be used for reference, but meh.
Well, given the description above, wouldn't that take some of the wind out of the sails of a *mancer type character?
No, not really. They get bonus dice for tests and those are not capped.
QUOTE (Malicant @ May 28 2009, 08:26 AM)
No, not really. They get bonus dice for tests and those are not capped.
I only asked because of an assumption they were using Improved Ability to get dice pool bonuses. That was how I originally was using it.
Nah, they use Improved Ablility all right, but only to get the skill up to 10. Everything else is situational bonus dice or some other shenanigans not tied to skill rating.
QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 27 2009, 05:42 PM)
I didn't look too closely at the archetypes in SR4A, but with IIRC every single archetype in SR4 being wrong on at least one account, I don't think that's too good a reason.
I can personally attest that every archetype in the Anniversary edition of the core book got several hours of attention by up to a dozen different individuals during the proofreading stage of the book. During proofing we were well aware that the archetypes from the previous printing were a sore spot, so they became an area of intense focus for us. You can trust the archetypes now.
QUOTE (Malachi @ May 28 2009, 10:58 AM)
You can trust the archetypes now.
But they are shadowrunners!
QUOTE (Malachi @ May 28 2009, 05:58 PM)
I can personally attest that every archetype in the Anniversary edition of the core book got several hours of attention by up to a dozen different individuals during the proofreading stage of the book. During proofing we were well aware that the archetypes from the previous printing were a sore spot, so they became an area of intense focus for us. You can trust the archetypes now.
I didn't mean to berate the work of you and the others that build them. Burnt child syndrome, is all. So you're the one I get to yell at should I manage to find a mistake?
I'll keep that in mind.
QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 28 2009, 02:09 PM)
I didn't mean to berate the work of you and the others that build them. Burnt child syndrome, is all. So you're the one I get to yell at should I manage to find a mistake?
I'll keep that in mind.
I'll keep that in mind.
Me, among others, but I'll take the heat.
EDIT: Also, for the record, we didn't "build" the archetypes so much as verified that they were rules compliant, and "tweaked" them to ensure they had the skills and equipment needed for their concept.
If "rules compliant" means that they actually add up to 400 BP, I'm happy.
And now I'm off to vigorously check them. My copy of the Big Bad Book of Internet Expletives just arrived and I'm just dying to use it.
And now I'm off to vigorously check them. My copy of the Big Bad Book of Internet Expletives just arrived and I'm just dying to use it.
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