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JesterX
One of my player asked a special favor:

To have the possibility of transferring her physical body along with her aura via the astral plane.

To me, it looks like a cheap teleport/desolidification combo.

I'm not against the idea but I need to balance it to make it viable. I don't want a player to be able to enter any place, any time without having to pay a huge cost.

Any thoughts/ideas about this?
darthmord
That the domain of Nethermancers from Earthdawn. I would suspect that ability isn't available yet due to the ambient mana level isn't high enough support such feats.

If you want to let it happen now, you may want to work it like Astral Projection where there's a time limit on how long the mage can sustain this effect. Perhaps Magic x 1 Minute. Upon expiration, gets dumped to the Physical plane. Can also end it early. You may want to attach a rest requirement of Magic minutes. May also want to consider letting the Mage take it repeatedly. Each time, it increases the time increment either by unit of measurement (from Magic x1 minutes to Magic x10 minutes to Magic x1 hour, etc). Alternatively the time increment increase could be Magic x1 , Magic x2, Magic x3, etc.

I'd also consider making it tied to other MetaMagics. Perhaps Masking & Shielding as pre-requisites. Masking to represent learning how to make your aura blend in and Shielding to represent your knowledge of barriers & their interaction with Magic. This isn't something that any Grade 1 initiate should be able to do. Maybe even have those two metamagics AND have to complete an Metaplanar Quest (learn from a spirit).

Keep in mind that if the Mage gets this ability, they *WILL* become a person of interest (to a great number of parties) once word gets out they can do something this unique / unusual.
Draco18s
Also a possibility of resisting some kind of drain?
"Teleporting" (via the astral) is likely to cause some havoc to the physical body, which wasn't meant to travel that way.
Marshwiggle
I like the above ideas, but I've got one more that may go a ways towards balancing it - prohibit the use of astral fast movement while carrying your body along.

Also, think of how interesting this could be in the hands of an NPC, especially with the above limitation...
Mongoose
QUOTE (darthmord @ May 29 2009, 04:31 PM) *
That the extremely rare and dangerous domain of absurdly high level Nethermancers from Earthdawn. I would suspect that ability isn't available yet due to the ambient mana level isn't high enough support such feats.

Fixed that. Note that this is something DRAGONS can not do in Shadowrun. In fact, there is zero support for physical objects moving to the astral plane in the current SR cannon, unless maybe you count the magical landscapes of Australia.

The opposite is somewhat possible, in that astral beings can create and control physical but that's got comparable limits to what mages can do; such forms are always dual natured, so the astral aspect continues to exist. In fact, the physical form vanishes if you destroy the astral. A mage who tries to drag their physical body to the astral plane is like a spirit who tries to make their manifest form not dual natured... its a fancy form of suicide.

Probably the more realistic option would be to learn possession, and find a body to take over at whatever location is is you are trying to reach. Obviously the trick is "find a body to take over"...
Dr Funfrock
Just say no. There's a reason why teleportation is explicitly forbidden in the setting, and it has absolutely frag all to do with plot.

Unless of course the rest of your players like being completely incidental to the story. If that's their thing then sure, go for it.

Yes, it sucks when you have to stop a player from doing something cool, but when you have a situation like this where even great dragons, who god knows get enough free passes as it is, can't pull it off, the player should understand that it would make no sense for their character to be able to.
Athanatos
Actually, they have a form of this exact thing in EarthDawn. Dragons are one of the few Namegiver races that are capable of it. It is entirely possible that this is what Ghostwalker actually did. Whether he "picked up" his body somewhere along the way or fully reentered the physical plane. Plus the Lightbringers could do this, noticeable survivors of which are Eharan(?) the scribe and Harlequin.

I would think it would require a atleast 6 or so levels of initiation before being able to take said meta-magic, but I would have it exist as a very rarely known meta-magic.

Plus, I would also have it having drain based on how long you were physically astral.
Screaming Eagle
The only way I (as a poor beleagured GM) might think about allowing this sort of thing: the mage finds "someway" to become a Spirit.
(A previous thread about Ally spirits and inhabitation comes to mind... maybe some sort of ancenstor worship tradition... Mage dies leaving their vessel (spirit formula))

this is a big stretch though and probably not what they want especially since they would be paying off this Karma debt till the end of time. (what does it cost to play a spirit again? oh ya, way to F-ing much, for a reason)

Physical things cannot go to or interact with the astral... allowing one person to do it WILL allow others... teleporting dragons, ya...
KCKitsune
In my opinion, the only reason teleport is not allowed is because it would, contrary to what Funfrock says, would destroy the metagame behind shadowrun.
Stahlseele
Isn't there something called the Astral Gateway Power on some Free / Great form Spirits?
Screaming Eagle
Astral gateway permits persons to travel to the astral and meta-planes - it does not such to their meat bodies - it does make everything in the area (trees, rocks, spike) dual natured
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ May 29 2009, 03:57 PM) *
In my opinion, the only reason teleport is not allowed is because it would, contrary to what Funfrock says, would destroy the metagame behind shadowrun.

Yes, but astral travel is not teleportation. It allows you to move fucking fast, & bypass physical barriers, but it is not an instant 'I'm there', nor does it allow you to bypass astral barriers (at least not without some effort). Considering how common Wards are, it would be powerful but not breaking.


That being said, I developed a spell to do this & posted it on the forums a while back - Astral Form is what I called it at the time (I think). Search for it. It had some severe limitations, & never reached a final version. I think a Metamagic might actually work better for this, now that you mention it. I will think about it, & possibly stat something up.
Digital Heroin
I developed a similar Metamagic for a theoretical character (a beneficiary of the Big D's will), but it was chained. She was an Adept, capable of Astral Perception, and in order to travel she had to locate a Dragon Line. She could align her body with the Dragon Line (in my reckoning a mana line aspected to very specific magics, so exclusionary of a lot of the lines), and enter it, then travel at a speed comprable to Astral Projection along it, exiting at any point along the way.

If I were to re-visit the concept, I would have some additional caveats, amongst them:

- She would have to resist Drain based on the time spent in the Dragon Line; and
- She would have to have Divining as a prereq, to discern the path of the line.

While it's far outside of canon, it's limited in three major ways (Must be along a dragon line, resist drain, and must Divine the location/path of the line first).
Chibu
ftr, it's not that high of a thing for Nethermancers to do. Bone Circle was pretty early. Also, you had to have one set up in two different specific places already for it to actually work.

However, Lightbearers at rank 15 (which is similar to a skill of 15, or maybe an initiate grade of 15, in SR) can also do this. Specifically, Halrequin and Ehran the Scribe can do it. By the way, since it's being talked about, Astral Shift (which is what it's called) had a maximum duration of 15 minutes. And we're talking about extreemly powerful people, not some schulb of a street mage. And also yes, they do take voluntary physical damage to do this. Which should be noted.

In short though, you probably should not allow it in shadowrun as it would make it too easy to break into bubildings (which is the main goal in shadowrun). So, keep that in mind.
Hagga
QUOTE
ftr, it's not that high of a thing for Nethermancers to do. Bone Circle was pretty early. Also, you had to have one set up in two different specific places already for it to actually work.

However, Lightbearers at rank 15 (which is similar to a skill of 15, or maybe an initiate grade of 15, in SR) can also do this. Specifically, Halrequin and Ehran the Scribe can do it. By the way, since it's being talked about, Astral Shift (which is what it's called) had a maximum duration of 15 minutes. And we're talking about extreemly powerful people, not some schulb of a street mage. And also yes, they do take voluntary physical damage to do this. Which should be noted.

In short though, you probably should not allow it in shadowrun as it would make it too easy to break into bubildings (which is the main goal in shadowrun). So, keep that in mind.


Nethermancer teleport is a circle ten spell. That's not exactly chickenfeed.

RANK 15
ASTRAL SHIFT
Action: Yes
DUration: Rank Minutes
The astral shift ability allows a Lightbearer's entire being -- physical, mental, and spiritual -- to enter the astral plane and reemrge into the physical world at a new location. Entering or leaving astral space causes 3 points of strain. A LIghtbearer may take any other LIghtbearer or Oathtaker characters who are touching him into astral space with him. Each additional character taken into astral space costs the LIghtbearer an additional 3 points of Strain. Because a Lightbearer takes all the inflicted Strain at once, he may Wound himself in an effort to take too many people into or out of astral space. Any attempt to take non-LIghtbearer or non-Oathtaker characters into astral space will fail.
Each use of Astral Shift lasts for a number of minutes equal to the character's Lightbearer Rank. The maximum distance a Lightbearer can travel, with or without companions, is 150 miles.
If attacked by creatures while in astral space, the lightbearer can defend himself using all the talents and abilities he possesses in the physical world. If a LIghtbearer suffers a Wound in astral space, he must make a Willpower Test against a difficulty Number of 15. On a successful test, the LIghtbearer may remain in astral space. If the test is unsuccessful, he immediately returns to the physical world. Such an abrupt expulsion from the astral plane causes the character to take damage of Step 20 upon reemerging in the physical world. Also, if a creature native to astral space that can exist in the phyiscal world happens to be near the character when he is expelled, it can follow him ot the physical plane. Forcing the creature to return to astral space may prove difficult. If a LIghtbearer dies in astral space, his dead body immediately returns to the physical world. If the Lightbearer takes other characters with him into astral space, They must all remain in physical contact with him in order to remain in astral space. If they lose physical contact with the LIghtbearer, they immediately return to the Physical Plane and suffer step 20 damage. Astral creatures that can exist on the physical plane may follow accompanying LIghtbearer or Oathertaker characters back into the physical world and attack them.

Maybe that will help.
Hagga
Just for completeness, here's the Nethermancer gateway talent since that was brought up several times.

Gateway:
Threads: 5 Weaving Difficulty: 12/19
Range: 5,000 miles Duration: Rank rounds
Effect: Willforce + 10
Casting Difficutly: Target's Spell Defense (See bnelow)
This spell opens a rift in astral space and connects it to a Bone Circle (p. 176, ED) of the Nethermancer's Creation. The rift forms a gateway between the nethermancer's position and the Bone Circle. The gateway is 10 feet tall and 5 feet wide, outlined by pinwheels of green sparks. To create the rift, the nethermancer makes a Spellcasting Test against the highest Spell Defense of any character within 10 yards of his position. To connect the rift to the Bone Circle, the magician makes an effect test against a difficulty number based on the distance between him and the Bone Circle, as follows:

Distance:
Less than 1 mile 2
2-5 5
6-10 7
11-25 11
26-50 14
51-100 17
101-200 20
201-500 23
501-1000 26
1001-2000 29
2001-5000 32

There's also spirit portal, but I'm too lazy to type that sucker out. Basically this, but without nay limitations. You make a portal that spirits can enter the physical plane through and adepts can enter the astral.

We've been playing Earthdawn lately, and the only thing that my Nethermancer has less survivability than is a Dark Heresy Psyker, which is basically the equivalent of jumping up and down on a hat full of mercury fulminate and hoping you don't get hurt. I don't think many will survive to this rank. I will admit to not having played DH much, despite my habit of nerding out on some tabletop games.
HappyDaze
I would not use such a metamagic in my game just as I would not allow a technomancer to use a Resonance ability to transfer his meatbody into the matrix (like what happened to Flynn in Tron). The latter being no less reasonable than the former since Resonance is really just another type of paranormal power.
Chibu
Circle 10, eh? Yeah that's high. We never really played nethermancers as well... They shouldn't have been listed as a playable Discipline (in our opinion), as they summon horrors and crap, and well... no one likes them.

And I never understood why Astral Shift said 'Rank Minutes' since 15 is the maximum rank, and you don't get that ability until rank 15... So, it's always 15 minutes.

But yeah, again, it's a really high level power, something that no runner should probably be able to reach without the help of someone who's way better, like Harlequin, and it would change the game completely, making the mage most likely completely unbalanced with the rest of the group.
HappyDaze
QUOTE
But yeah, again, it's a really high level power, something that no runner should probably be able to reach without the help of someone who's way better, like Harlequin, and it would change the game completely, making the mage most likely completely unbalanced with the rest of the group.

The rules allow for cyberzombies which are generally regarded as being of very high power, so direct application magical effects on that level would probably have use in some games for the magician buddy of the cyberzombie.
Jaid
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ May 30 2009, 02:02 PM) *
The rules allow for cyberzombies which are generally regarded as being of very high power, so direct application magical effects on that level would probably have use in some games for the magician buddy of the cyberzombie.

the game also allows for megacorporations to run the show. this does not mean your character can also run the show.

the more logical equivalent would be the observation that there is a metamagic technique which allows cyberzombies to be created. this technique is not available to player characters.

likewise, is it *possible* to do this? sure, for something with the appropriate kind of power. does that mean we need to get it into the hands of the PCs asap? nope.

the cyberzombie PC (assuming you even use the option) is more comparable to having a PC who has passed through one of these gates, rather than having a PC who can create one.

certainly, if you want it though, go ahead. hand it to your players. it's your game after all. i just happen to think it's firmly in the category of "the players don't have access to it".
HappyDaze
QUOTE
the game also allows for megacorporations to run the show. this does not mean your character can also run the show.

Why not? There's nothing in the mechanics of the SR4 system that hardwire your character to be a runner. If you want to play a corp exec and that fits in with what your GM and the other players want, then by all means do it.

QUOTE
the more logical equivalent would be the observation that there is a metamagic technique which allows cyberzombies to be created. this technique is not available to player characters.

likewise, is it *possible* to do this? sure, for something with the appropriate kind of power. does that mean we need to get it into the hands of the PCs asap? nope.

I don't care for artificial limits that make a distinction between PCs and NPCs. If the metamagic technique is out there, it can be learned by PCs. They may need to find a teacher, but that doesn't put it into the realm of NPCs only - it just makes for another story...
Jaid
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ May 30 2009, 04:20 PM) *
Why not? There's nothing in the mechanics of the SR4 system that hardwire your character to be a runner. If you want to play a corp exec and that fits in with what your GM and the other players want, then by all means do it.


I don't care for artificial limits that make a distinction between PCs and NPCs. If the metamagic technique is out there, it can be learned by PCs. They may need to find a teacher, but that doesn't put it into the realm of NPCs only - it just makes for another story...


so what you're saying is that all your mooks are built exactly the same way as the PCs? do you give them a full background for each one? do you carefully follow the availability limitations when making them? are your PCs playing insect magicians and great dragons?

or, do you have an artificial set of limits that make a distinction between PCs and NPCs?
Czar Eggbert
I think that you are going about it the wrong way, instead of an astral teleport power make it a Manifest Meta-Magic. Give it as mant prereq's as needed, at least 4, and require a Quest to learn it from a Spirit. Add to this insane amounts of drain and a short time limit (eg magic x 1min), and you have your self a winner. And, to add fule to the fire, all it ends up being is a metamagic that mimics a spirit power, something that has been done before.

I am the Eggman
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Chibu @ May 30 2009, 10:23 AM) *
Circle 10, eh? Yeah that's high. We never really played nethermancers as well... They shouldn't have been listed as a playable Discipline (in our opinion), as they summon horrors and crap, and well... no one likes them.

And I never understood why Astral Shift said 'Rank Minutes' since 15 is the maximum rank, and you don't get that ability until rank 15... So, it's always 15 minutes.

But yeah, again, it's a really high level power, something that no runner should probably be able to reach without the help of someone who's way better, like Harlequin, and it would change the game completely, making the mage most likely completely unbalanced with the rest of the group.


Nethermancers did not summon horrors, they studied and learned about horrors in order to better combat them. But yes circle 10 is fairly high level you needed the expansion book to hit it. On a side note a lot of these spells may have been harder in earth dawn on the game logic level. The horrors still existed and astral space was horrible polluted. Using a snazzier version of the filtering metamaigc was the base way spells had to be cast due to the high background.
Chibu
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ May 31 2009, 12:17 AM) *
Nethermancers did not summon horrors, they studied and learned about horrors in order to better combat them. But yes circle 10 is fairly high level you needed the expansion book to hit it. On a side note a lot of these spells may have been harder in earth dawn on the game logic level. The horrors still existed and astral space was horrible polluted. Using a snazzier version of the filtering metamaigc was the base way spells had to be cast due to the high background.


Huh... Yeah, so I just looked through the ED books, and apparently you're right. I have no idea why I thought that then, but I saw no mention of it. I just remembered a spell that was like "summon Horror" or something. but apparently not. Oh well. That's weird.
HappyDaze
If you summon the Horror on your terms so you and your fellow adepts can trap and/or kill it, that's a useful and heroic ability in ED.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Chibu @ May 31 2009, 10:48 AM) *
Huh... Yeah, so I just looked through the ED books, and apparently you're right. I have no idea why I thought that then, but I saw no mention of it. I just remembered a spell that was like "summon Horror" or something. but apparently not. Oh well. That's weird.


Its in the fluff I think for what the general populace thinks they do, they are creepy and hated so stories are told about them.
Jaid
pretty sure they actually do have a spell, call horror or something like that, which (unsurprisingly) calls a horror. they also get spells that are said to have possibly been learned from a horror (iirc, shift skin is one of them). certainly, they have a different perspective of things from most people.

that being said, i'd rather deal with a nethermancer who studies their enemy to know better where to kill them than an archer adept who has been corrupted by a horror. it's probably more common for nethermancers to go bad, in much the same way that it's more common for people who routinely work around radiation to get irradiated. this doesn't mean that everyone who works around radiation is radioactive, nor does it mean that every nethermancer is an evil, horror-worshipping lunatic who would as soon peel your skin off and graft it onto a tree as say hello. it is probably more likely for a nethermancer to get corrupted than others, simply because they routinely deal with horrors. a warrior might battle other warriors their entire life, and never see a horror. a nethermancer goes looking for them.

of course, it probably doesn't help in the slightest that most people shun nethermancers, but basically, in the end... nethermancy is more like 2nd edition D&D necromancy... yes, it's the school of magic that you use to make undead, but it's also the school of cure light wounds. essentially, nethermancy is kinda like magical biology. for example, it is my understanding that leonardo da vinci exhumed corpses so he could dissect them and learn how the human body is put together. today, dissecting humans isn't all that horrifying to us, particularly if it's for medical education or criminal investigation purposes. for da vinci's time, though, it was sick and wrong for humans to be dissected. so was da vinci a deranged monster for what he did, or just a scientist? to the people at his time, he would have been a monster. to us, just a scientist.
Hagga
Other disciplines have spells that came from horrors. Look at the Wizard's Onion Blood.
Jaid
QUOTE (Hagga @ May 31 2009, 10:22 PM) *
Other disciplines have spells that came from horrors. Look at the Wizard's Onion Blood.

there's also a wizard spell that works remarkably like a horror mark, iirc...
Apathy
Seems like there's two separate issues:
  • It's specifically against canon.
  • It's potentially over-the-top game-breakingly powerful.

Most people here seem to be argueing about the first issue, but I get the impression that you don't care about that. If you're willing to change the fluff so that it is do-able, and is even common enough that 400-BP runners know about it, then there's no reason why it couldn't be done.

This would be the prefered method to bypass security, and to escape physical threats. Security should have relatively easy countermeasures available (wards become even more prolific, and are everywhere, along with lots of random spirit encounters) or it should have drawbacks so severe that people don't do it casually. Here's a couple options:
  • Teleportation only available between pre-set points. So you can't teleport into a place unless you prepared the recieving site and the transmit site and matched the sites together. (This makes the skill much less useful to the runners, but VERY useful to the security response team that can teleport to any installation in an eyeblink.)
    -or-
  • The introduction of a physical body on the astral plane and back again creates exceptional stresses on the body and mind. Resist [10-Initiate Grade]S with Will upon transferring to Astral, resist an additional [10-Initiate Grade]P with Body upon re-manifesting. (You could pop into the vault to steal the maguffin and pop back to safety, but it may kill you in the process.)
    -or-
  • The physical body's presence in the astral alters the character's ability to control their emergence point. Roll 1D6 x 5 meters scatter in any direction (including up or down) from the target location to determine where the character actually transitions back to the physical plane. This means the character may 'pop out' and immediately 'pop back in', and somehow inexplicably re-emerge 30 meters in the air (resolve falling damage normally), or buried 30 meters under ground. Initiates may reduce this scatter by rolling their magic+initiate grade in the same way a grenadier reduces grenade scatter rolling agility+skill. In cases of interpenetration, the item with the higher body/barrier rating takes damage equal to half the body/barrier rating of the lower-valued item. The item with the lower value is destroyed. (Better not try to teleport ANYWHERE unless you're a.skydiving, or b.very highly initiated.)
    -or-
  • Teleportation results in a sort of astral 'sonic boom'. All astral entities (spirits, wards, projecting mages, etc) within 100M of entrance and exit points of astral take 1P damage (resisted normally) from the shock wave, and are aware of the source of the shock wave. Treating the damage as an attack, most entities will respond hostilly to the traveler. The traveling character takes 5P damage and 5S damage (unresisted). (Generally easier to blow a hole in the wall while standing at ground zero.)
Hagga
If you had to, I really would say just adapt the Lightbringer ability with Apathy's "Wards everywhere. astral sonic booms." and make it available, but only with four odd grades of initiation under your belt. That way, when the player DOES get it they'll be heading toward the end of your campaign and everything will be bloody weird anyway. Or at least there will be cyberzombies lurking around every corner. Kinda.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Apathy @ Jun 1 2009, 04:42 PM) *
Seems like there's two separate issues:
  • It's specifically against canon.

Teleportation is against cannon.
Teleportation is instantaneous travel between two points without crossing the intervening distance (granted, there are some variant definitions that this form of movement can qualify as Teleportation under, but generally speaking, are not actually considered teleportation).

Astral Travel is certainly fast, but far from instantaneous.
Astral Travel uses an alternate means of traversing the distance, but does cross it.
"Physical" Astral Travel does have cannon precedence.

QUOTE
This would be the prefered method to bypass security, and to escape physical threats. Security should have relatively easy countermeasures available (wards become even more prolific, and are everywhere, along with lots of random spirit encounters) or it should have drawbacks so severe that people don't do it casually.


Primary advantage is rapid transportation &, as you mentioned, respite from Physical threats. Security bypass, however, should not be considered a significant advantage. Wards are, supposedly, already very common, & security is either low enough that more 'traditional' methods of bypassing are nearly as easy, or have significant astral presence &/or powerful warding.

QUOTE
  • The introduction of a physical body on the astral plane and back again creates exceptional stresses on the body and mind. Resist [10-Initiate Grade]S with Will upon transferring to Astral, resist an additional [10-Initiate Grade]P with Body upon re-manifesting. (You could pop into the vault to steal the maguffin and pop back to safety, but it may kill you in the process.)

Drain is the single thing I believe we are all (more or less) agreed upon. My original method for this was a spell with a +5 Drain modifier, & (I think) a Force requirement of Body. As of this thread, I much prefer the idea of a Metamagic, and I have been having minor difficulty deciding what Drain it should impose - I like your suggested [10 - Initiate Grade]S, but it should only apply on entering astral space (leaving is returning to your normal state - shouldn't impose any, and hitting that hard twice in a short period is just harsh).


I am nearly done with my version, & now just need requirements. First, it will require the Dual Perception metamagic (posted in other threads, will be included here with Astral Shift final version). I also want to include Astral Perception as a requirement, but feel this should also be available to Mystic Adepts (not to concerned about Adepts - just doesn't quite fit for them). I would solve this by creating a Metamagic granting Astral Projection, but am somewhat concerned that will remove the single major downside of playing a Mystic above a Magician (although 1PP + Metamagic, or 2x Metamagic, is costly). Suggestions for a 'limited' Astral Projection metamagic are welcome - my initial idea would be to reduce the allowed time from Hours to Minutes. This would also allow Adepts to take it, but whatever.

Some fine tuning & figuring out exact requirements, & I think I will have a usable Astral Shift metamagic.
Muspellsheimr
My current draft. I still need a reasonable way to give Mystic / Adepts access to Astral Projection.
QUOTE
Astral Shift
Prerequisite: Astral Projection, Dual Perception

Astral shift allows an initiate's entire being - physical, mental, and spiritual - to enter the astral plane and reemerge into the physical world at a new location.
Shifting to astral space takes a Complex Action and (10 - Initiate Grade)S Drain. Returning to physical space takes a Complex Action.

While astrally shifted, an initiate uses all the normal rules for astral projection (p.192, SR4A), except an initiate may maintain their astral shift for up to Magic minutes. If he has not returned to the physical plane in this time, the initiate dies & the astral form dissipates.

QUOTE
Dual Perception

This metamagic allows an initiate to view both the Astral & Physical simultaneously. While Astrally Perceiving, the initiate does not suffer penalties to Physical actions or Perception Tests, & may use AR (but not VR).
darthmord
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jun 3 2009, 12:59 AM) *
I also want to include Astral Perception as a requirement, but feel this should also be available to Mystic Adepts (not to concerned about Adepts - just doesn't quite fit for them). I would solve this by creating a Metamagic granting Astral Projection, but am somewhat concerned that will remove the single major downside of playing a Mystic above a Magician (although 1PP + Metamagic, or 2x Metamagic, is costly). Suggestions for a 'limited' Astral Projection metamagic are welcome - my initial idea would be to reduce the allowed time from Hours to Minutes. This would also allow Adepts to take it, but whatever.


SOTA '64 has a metamagic called Limited Astral Projection. It is for those who only have Astral Perception. It lets them Astrally Project for (Magic) Minutes rather than (Magic) Hours like mages can.

This is coming from memory as I don't have my SOTA book handy to confirm the specifics. But the metamagic *DOES* already exist.
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