.. i know but she looted it w/ Internal Smartgun System already on it..

An M202 for free is even better. Was it customized for small people?

Yes, it was.. mercenary team with corporate contract..2 High-Explosive granades and burst from PJSS Elephant Rifle
(w/ex-explosive rounds) and Manabolt took care of them ..

My primary reason: Drones have low dice pools compared to pc's so long bursts=good. So therefore a 200 round belt is good for something that can't reload as it lacks, you know, hands. My Dobermen with LMG mounts have done a number on quite a few enemies.

Um, that was insomnia. And I regularly wind up working odd hours, so being awake at 2 am isn't a big deal... unfortunately.

If a genuine "sleep regulator" showed up, I'd mortgage everything short of my immortal soul to get one.

Amen to that.

Also, because machineguns are awesome. Though I've never quite grasped vehicle mounting rules. An LMG is, I agree, a SAW. I know a HMG, like the RL Ma Deuce (M2), is definitely a heavy machine gun and is used mostly for suppression and anti vehicular fire. An M2 has to be vehicle mounted or put on a tripod, you can't carry this thing. So I'm not really sure what a MMG is for.

In reality an MMG is portable and provides longer range fire that is better at penetrating cover and more lethal, particularly at longer range, say out past 2-300 meters. 5.56 at long range isn't a highly effective round, 7.62 is a lot more effective. They are quite a bit more effective than a LMG.

Given the insane weapon stats in SR they are nearly pointless in SR.

After being an Automatic Rifleman for a couple of years, and having a lot of trigger time with a Squad Automatic Weapon I tend to agree that the recoil modifiers are a little extream but still as realistic as your going to get. Yeah old Delilah fired the 5.56 but she rocked more in the pocket than an M4. It's weapon design. With the bi-pods extended and some good pressure forward to the gun the recoil was nothing mutch to worry about but then again I only fired that way at ranges, otherwise it teneded to be fromt the shoulder. And reguardless of personal strength shooting a SAW (which I agree is a good aproximation of the SR LMG) with a cyclic rate of fire causes some interesting cone of fire effects.

If you've got the stock folded out and you've put a bipod onto a White Knight, recoil's essentially a thing of the past. If you really must, you can scrounge up one more point of recoil compensation and take no penalties at all on a Full Burst once you're deployed.

IMO, if SR4's LMGs are comparable to a SAW, the MMG's are essentially a 5.56mm MG that isn't as portable. I get that mostly from the damage code on the MMG being a whopping -1 AP better than that of the LMG The HMG's would be something along the lines of an M240 or some other heavy 7.62mm MG... man portable by definition, but not something really built to be fired from the shoulder on the move.

Shadowrun HMGs aren't .50 cals.

The RPK is a real gun.

Chambered for 7.62x39mm M43. (Later models switched to 5.45x39mm M74)

If LMGs are standard 5.56 I have to wonder what caliber MMGs are supposed to be.

The real RPK however stands for "Kalashnikov hand-held machine gun" and is a light machine gun chambered with 7.62X39, roughly equivalent to 5.56 NATO, contrary to the SR-RPK which is a heavy machine gun.

I guess the writers again didn't know what the abreviation originally stood for, similar to calling the 2070 version of the AA-12 AA-16.

7.62-ish. The Canadian Forces C5 GPMG or the old .30-calibre machinegun are examples that spring to mind.

Standard Caliber Progression for NATO weapons:
5.56x45mm(LMG/Standard Rifle), 7.62x51mm(MMG/Battle Rifle), 12.7x99mm(HMG/Anti-material rifle)

Standard Caliber Progression for Warsaw Pact weapons:
5.45x39mm(LMG/Standard Rifle), 7.62x54R(MMG/Battle Rifle), 12.7x108mm(HMG/Anti-material rifle)

Also, the NSV is the current Russian HMG. The RPK name is just most well know among Soviet machineguns.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSV_(machine_gun)

It was used in the comic book they used for their gun info....

I want that book

Ammunition calibers in Shadowrun being as nebulous as they are, there's nothing I know of (off the top of my head) that says the AA16 isn't firing the equivalent of a 16 gauge shot shell.

Yes, I beleive as you do that they simply thought "it's the future...make the number bigger!", but in theory there could be a sensible reason for the designation.

OR... It is indeed a 12 Gauge Shotgun with a Designation of AA-16 as a Naming Convention...
Does anyone actually believe that an AR-180 actually fires 180 Caliber Rounds? Or an M16 for that matter? It is most likely just a designation for the weapon...

I find hard to conceive of something involving firearms that is so stupid that the SR devs wouldn't buy it.

Someone should give them a copy of R.Talsorien's out of print Edge of the Sword supplement. That is the best multi-purpose comparison of firearms I have ever found. There's a lot of reference guides with dimensions, weights and muzzle velocity/energy, but how many provide accuracy data from bench vise firings?

I remember years ago, maybe 1996, translationg the data into SR2 damage codes, converting enegy/area to Power, tissue disruption to Staging and reworking the range tables based on accuracy. The break points were pretty distinctive.

They could find lots of people here could help them fix stuff, if they gave a damn.

Shouldn't that be 7.62x39mm

No, 5.45x39mm is the current standard for modern Russian military rifles and LMGs. The 7N6 round or it's successors are lighter and flatter shooting than the 7.62x39mm and about as effective as it or the Nato 5.56, with probably better long range effectiveness than the 5.56.

Which, if you'd read the mention to said gun in another post, breaks from the naming convention used in the real world for no discernable reason, other than "higher number is better, t'is the future, give it a bigger number", similar to what they have done with the AK series.

Whoever brought it up stated that the AA-12 is named such because it is shorthand for Auto Assault - 12 Gauge (the Auto Assault bit having changed from the original once already). Following that convention, an AA-16 would be an Auto Assault - 16 Gauge.

I don't have a specific reference to the origin of the naming convention for the AA-12, ask the original poster of that point. MY point is, Shadowrun is vague enough on ammo sizes (beyond weapon class) that you can make up whatever fluff reason for the designation you want. I merely suggested a fluff reason that might appeal to those who have an issue with the "make the number bigger" mentality that seems to be the SOP for the Shadowrun Devs when it comes to making crap up about guns in the future.



And sometimes those designations mean something, the meaning of which varies based on model and manufacturer. Hence this is a spurious argument really. Just because one company uses model names to designate caliber (say, Steyr, with their M and S series pistols) does not mean this is some sort of industry-wide standard.

Honestly, if you don't care one way or the other why they called it the AA-16, why the hell are you even arguing about it? Hell, why am I even arguing about it (other than the fact that I am obviously cranky from lack of food--really need to go eat instead of put up with this nonsense--and the bolded, arrogant "or" you started your post of with just got on my tits)? If your character wants to use the AA-16, buy it, load it up with with Shotgun ammo (whatever fucking gauge that happens to be in Shadowrun), and have a good run.

I'd mortgage your immortal soul for to get one...

Palladium (or maybe GURPS) had a similar one called The Guide to Modern Firearms ('modern" meaning in 1990, or whenever the book was published). It had game stats for that system, but since I didn't play that system I used it mainly for pics, and it earned a spot in my SR bag anyway (as did several of the CP2020 chromebooks and one of their weapons guide, if only for the .666cal Hellbringer).

For a long time in my group the AK-97/98 was assumed to be updated designs that appeared in the game world in the late 90's. I can't remember if that was just a blind assumption or if it was based on a line from the book. And please remember that in '94, when we made that assumption, 1998 looked like a somewhat distant date ripe with promise.

If it were someone else, i might be tempted too . . but i'm having too much fun with Kerenshara right now ^^

WOW... Hope you are feeling better...
Keep the Faith... And get something to eat...

Yeah, I wouldn't mortgage Kerenshara's soul, either. Maybe one of those 5,000 guys using the J.C. Denton avatar, nobody'd miss any of them, right?

Snow-Fox would be missed i guess ^^
I can't think of anyone else using that one right now.

Because there is nothing quite like mounting an LMG on a Steel Lynx, and having it go on an rampage through an out door facility, smashing and shooting anything (like guards) that moves while chasing frantically after it yelling "PETUNIA! PETUNIA! COMEBACK!"; That is one Heck of a distraction. I would know, I did just this, and it worked better than I would have imagined. And better yet, I didn't get caught or shot at.

...

More power to ya, I guess. Glad it worked out for you at your game table.

OK, let us sum this up:
Rules-Wise, LMG's are statted out with longer reach than the Assault Rifles.
Fluff-Wise they are able to bring more firepower to a fight than Assault-Rifles.
Style-Wise: HECK YEAH! LMG's!

Probably the best reason to use an LMG (or any MG for that matter) is because you took heavy weapons to use grenade launchers and don't want to shell out for another skill just to shoot people.
You know, for those occasions where you need to murder some dude without murdering all the dudes around them.


As for the naming conventions it seems the devs attempts to reference real life only serve to make things more confusing. Oh well.