Xirces
Jan 22 2004, 10:53 AM
I can think of only one situation where a VI has any point whatsoever and that is when trying to learn a dangerous skill (demolitions, car etc) where trial and error is not an option. For that a minimum VI is required - Skill:3, Instruction:1.
Can anyone think of any other situation where these things are useful?
According to SRComp the VI does not get to make an instruction roll, which means that the training time is based entirely on the roll of the character - exactly the same as if he'd picked up his sword and just started swinging it until learning "Edged Weapons". The same applies to improving skills - the VI has no effect at all.
Which is a shame... especially since the book also mentions that one of the advantages of a VI is that you can buy a high skill level and continue to use to it assist training...
Have I missed a vital rule somewhere or are these things as cr@p as I think?
Lilt
Jan 22 2004, 12:52 PM
I think that these are more useful in games where you do need an instructor to learn something. In such games they probably do have their uses as even though they're more expencive (don't have books on me so can't check), they make-up for that as you can take them anywhere and use them at any time.
There would probably be role-playing reasons too for some characters (IE: the insane social outcast ones) as virtual instructors don't get pissed-off and they aren't actually human. You could possibly even slot a virtual instructor chip and lay a smackdown on the virtual instructor to vent anger. That'd be made more amusing if the virtual instructor used was "Granny Fanny's Cakes and Desserts, Volume 2: Pies and Tarts".
Xirces
Jan 22 2004, 01:51 PM
The problem is that the same page which introduces those rules encouraging instructors goes on to state that a VI cannot actually use the instruction skill.
I'm part way through developing a house rule on skills and instruction that would require instruction to gain more than a certain skill level, but my question was whether the VI has any use under canon rules?
(BTW I'd also do something like reduce the karma cost for instruction, or reduce the TN for the test to reduce training time - anyone got any thoughts on those ideas?)
Siege
Jan 22 2004, 02:43 PM
The merit of a VR trainer: it allows a character to have access to skills that would normally be difficult to justify in-play.
GM: "Where did your street punk, gutter rat learn Biotech 4, never mind Medicine 3?"
Player 1: "Oh, he got bored and found a VR trainer one day..."
Reduced karma
The idea has been kicked around from time to time, but I think it was ultimately decried as cheese.
Reduced TN
Creae a skill-monkey (see the programmed slave thread) who has "desired skill" and "Teaching" slotted.

-Siege
Frag-o Delux
Jan 22 2004, 03:28 PM
We created a group of people in the shadows who some how got a hold of prototype tech and set up a trining operation. You jack in or use a trode, and through BTL tech/simesense, a virtual instructor can teach you skills, it also has the Instructor skill to allow for the extra dice. We also give all kinds of bonus dice depending on the "package" you buy. Like a rating 5 pistols, but you buy a block of hours in the Virtual Training ground, it lets you run through a ton of scenerios. You can go in and get a regular "package" that just trains you but nothing more, you just have do your best to learn. We always tought that your brain could absorb a ton of info pretty fast, so in this "Prototype" machine, it just fills your brain with info like opening up a dam. I forget all the rules we came up with it but we like it. Trying to learn skills can be a pain in the ass, sometimes one team member has the karma to learn a good skill so is gone for weeks in the game, and the rest fo the team goes on, then 1 or 2 of the team members has the karma, leaving the other 2 to do jobs on their own or just hang around the flop house waiting for us to get back. So as long as you have the karma, a ton of cash and a contact in with this group, you can learn skills almost over night. We don't see this as a problem because you still need the karma and the cash, it just cuts out all the waiting around for training. Also the group has to do the whole availibility thing, even if you have a contact in the group they may not have that skill on hand or ready for you or they maybe booked up so you'll have to wait for an opening. Let me also say the cost is very high, I forget how much one team member spent but it was in the hundred thousand mark to learn a monowhip specialzation of 10. She is pretty bad ass with this weapon, but weak in a lot of others and broke, I think she has been crashing on my couch for months now since she lost her apartment. Also of course no magic can be trained in this way, which cheeses me off a little since I am the mage of the group, and I need spells bad, but it can't be doen and I don't have the cash, saving for a weapon foci.
sable twilight
Jan 22 2004, 07:29 PM
Downtime for learning skills, spells, healing for cyberware being installed, etc. is why some groups allow secondary characters.
Siege
Jan 23 2004, 04:07 AM
Funny -- my GM just makes the characters produce a "what I did while the sammie had his legs rotated" sheet.
-Siege
Frag-o Delux
Jan 23 2004, 11:59 AM
I have close to 50 differrent characters made for shadowrun and almost all have been played. Sometimes the team we have going is on a roll and we like the characters and don't want to stop playing them for periods of time. So we came up with something we thought was possible with SR technology. I pretty much play anything I want any time I want unless of course we left off the week before on a run, but that depends also on where in the run we left off. If it is just leg work then I can usually swap characters if it is in the building or actually doing the run I can't.
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