I was wondering how big drakes were, for better understanding of what their limitations would be inside buildings and other confined areas. The book describes them simply as looking like small dragons. However it also confers on them a flying movement rate based on their metatype form. This suggests to me that a drake's size is also based on its form (IE a dwarf makes a really small drake and a troll makes a big one). I was wondering if anyone has any idea as to how much bigger a drake is compared to its metatype form?

I am specifically looking for something that gives me a ratio, percentage, or a multiplier. Either as height/length or as mass.

Going even further I was wondering if the would also be different dimensions for the 4 different types of drakes. I would most specifically want to know it for the Asian dragon, but others would be nice for future references.

Good question...

Hm, since only the western dragon drake gets +1 reach i assume their armlength is metahuman-like in total. But they have more bodymass. The one picture showing a oriental drake and the woman seem to give a good feel for the length and mass.

I would assume feathered snake and oriental dragon: maybe 7 meters long max and thick as the original body with aheavie bigger head. A western drake maybe shorter but much stockier and broader. Maybe the height like a really big troll (if standing, maybe 2 meters normal) and 3 meters long + 2.5 meter tail? Ten meter wingspan? With the leviathan.. eh sea drakes i would have to guess. They are like the feathered ones, but squatter and 25% longer... so 8-9 meters long and 1/3 thicker?

This is all of course guesswork, but seems ok for me if the drakes are 1/3 as big as dragons in all dimensions?

I wouldn't go for them being that big. A human or elf in drake form might be the size/mass of a troll, and a troll proportionately larger, but 9m length is just too much IMO for the meager Body and Strength scores of these creatures.

Drakes are about two meters long from head to tail; oriental drakes might be a little longer but they don't have any wings. I'm probably in the minority but I'm generally in favor of conservation of mass, so I'm going to suggest a 1:1 mass ratio.

It doesn't matter for shapeshifters (unless you have 80 kg eagles, tigers, and bears in your world), so why would it matter for drakes?

I like the conservation of mass idea too. However there is also the issue of actual dragons turning themselves into a normal sized metahuman. The drake ability being something similar.

I am just trying to figure out how much harder or easier it would be for a drake to maneuver down a hallway, with in a ship, or other semi confined space compared to its metahuman form.

Although the idea of the drake maintaining its same mass makes it more feasible that the drake would be able to still wear its clothing in drake form. At least items custom designed to fit both forms.

I am playing around with the idea of making a Harumen who is an Asian drake. The Asian drake thus looking a lot like Falkor the Luck Dragon. However, I am trying to figure out when its feasible to use his drake form and when it isn't. (BTW, a lot of the game is a bit pink mohawk due to a street sami always wanting his 6 foot katana out and constantly changing towns).

Nothing involving magic has to obey the law of conservation of mass. Mages don't, Shapeshifter don't, Dragons do not. So i wouldn't ask drakes to do it. Giving them a slight boost seems fair. They even get better Body and strength attributes. If we see the bodytypes of some dragons (which are sometimes not really athletic) i assume a boost in mass to explain that. (The arms of western and eastern dragon for example are much smaller in relation to their body, it seems to me)

Also even when i make them 1/3 as big in every dimension as a normal adult dragon (not great of course) that still gives them only ~3.6 percent their mass. (If made of the same smush). It is really tiny for a dragon, but a bit bigger than a metahuman. (Maybe between three and five times)

Not too much as to give horrible problems with moving around, but big enough to radiate power and awesomeness, like you SHOULD. (In my opinion... never played one, don't want to)

Heh, funny story. We were going to put that into RC but ran out of space.

I was pretty sure that everything I'd read suggested 2-3 meters in length as well. 7 meters would be absolutely enormous for a character. It'd essentially preclude you from doing anything indoors while in drake form.

Hm, i don't see a problem with a flying snake 7 meters long navigating indoors. Really... i would have concerns with the western dragons and their wings.

Even in my apartment, such a drake (leviathan, eastern and feathered snake) could easily enter a room, turn around and leave again. You have three dimensional movement or can coil up a (i imagine the whole flight thin is a very graceful movement). Now with the wings... well... they(western drakes) should have SOME drawback for beeing so insanley overpowered in respect to the other one, or not? *g*

I'd consider the eastern drake the overpowered one. Why? Because unlike the others, it has hands.

Now you know why my drake adept was an eastern drake. If I went drake I actually got better at shooting things, though I was saving the dracoform for some good old hand-to-claw combat.

Having the manual dexterity allowed for things two fold: 1) ranged weapons remain a possibility, and 2) team communication, that is, Sign Language. Making up for that whole "lacking vocal cords" thing.

I will however, readily admit that the same build as a troll not only saved points, but was more effective in nearly every application that the build was designed for.

I describe my drake character looking and being similar sized to "Haku" from Spirited Away.

As an understanding GM lets me use my drake form quite a bit, I was still amazed on paper to see that it increased my infiltration.

GM: So turning into a small dragon some how makes you less noticable!?

Me: Perhaps people don't look up

You are right, they never do.. DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!^^

If the girth of the drake is at all proportional to the length, at 7 meters long, you'd be way too fat to fit in a normal door. And if the drake was skinny enough to fit through the door, it'd end up looking rail-thin.

Ranged weapons? Which ones? Javelins? I don´t think that he has hands, small enough to manipulate non-customized equipment.
Sign Language? Why? Use a spell. Works better.

Aside for the Ability to fly maybe ^^

BIG Ranged Weapons with no Trigger-Guard? O.o
HMG's, PAC's? things like that? o.O
I remember there being a Picture of a Drake i think in Dot6W that showed a Drake being a bit larger than a Troll holding some really big weapon in his claws . . really, the weapon looked about as large as an Ork to me ^^

Theres also this picture of a western drake fighting with a norm... i think it was in threats 2. And they we're quite the same in height or so it seemed.

Have you seen eastern dragons?

Haku is in fact, a very bendy, flying rail.

Yeah, but western dragons are the coolest ones anyway.^^ Besides that, on the rules-section there is a picture of an eastern dragon behind a human girl. You have to guess a little bit, but it gives a quite good impression of his size.

There was a Discovery mock-umentary a while back that traced the 'evolution' of Dragons, if they had existed in our (non-SR) world. The eastern/asian dragons 'swam' through the air like a snake, bobbing and weaving through temple arches and the like, but very free-flowing (for lack of a better term).

I agree with Draco18s, Haku is a good example.

Aight, so I went back and looked through Dragons of the Sixth World, and it says in there that drakes are 2-3 meters long. Also, going by the stats, it would seem that true drakes would be on the bigger/heavier side of things, due to their higher body and strength in drake form. Being as there's no way that a player character could reasonably be a true drake, a bred drake would seem to be about 2m in length, and if they weigh more than the player character in human form, I'd think it's only 50-75 lbs more.

I figure that, as western drakes are the largest, a safe assumption would be a general increase (size and weight) of 50%. Everything else would be lower. Leviathans being like 40% larger, with Eastern and Feathered increasing 30%. The good thing about increasing things by percentages is that it saves on a little work. How's that sound?

The distinction between Bred and True was only in SR3. SR4(A) has no such distinction; drakes are drakes.

Tell that to naga players. 10 meter long snake, anyone?

I never understood why only Eastern Drakes got opposable thumbs. It doesn't seem to fit with what has already been established in other books, specifically Dragons of the Sixth World. According to that all dragons (At least those with paws) are highly dextrous and have opposable thumbs. Not that it matter all that much, just something that always nagged at me.

Uh...no. From the very first edition, Eastern dragons were the ones with thumbs.

It's not just thumbs. There are a number of factors required in order to have paws that maintain the same manual dexterity as human hands.

Digit size (girth and length), claw length, number of joints, flexibility of said joints, strength of the joints...

Magic Fingers (I hate the name of that spell; it sounds like magical child molestation) or a Power Pact for Psychokinesis would work for those of us who want hands. Or, check out the link in my Sig for a way to get super-powers on any mage.

That would work, I suppose. I don't recall Magic Fingers being all that great for doing things like firing guns, but...

Also, they're invisible so you couldn't sign with them.

At force 6 they are 6 agi with a -2, unless you overcast they wouldn't be great, but still decent. Also, don't forget your energy attack. Change it to Blast or Sonic if you're worried about not doing dmg.

For signing, true. But, could you not write on the floor with your claws? Or just have people ask yes or no questions?

Or play Charade . .

It's about speed. If you suddenly notice something in a combat situation how would you tell your team mates?



(I abused your post a bit, but the idea is there)

You can sign (using the 26 signs for the alphabet) about as fast as you can talk in normal conversation. If you start adding in complete words as one sign it only gets faster.

And there are allready signs for words in every day use known to most people
*flips you the bird* you are nuts.
*shows middle finger salute* Asshole.
*makes ring with index and thumb with rest of the fingers pointing straight up* O.K.
*rolls in rest of the fingers and hits thumb/index finger with flat hand* i think you can all guess this one.
*Thumbs up* It's AAAWWRIIIGHT!
*thumb down* booh, stinks.
and so on, and so on.

Uh. Those are the same gesture.

ok, then what's repetedly tipping the tip of your index finger to your temple?

I don't know. Sorry.

*grmbl*
here i thought i knew that stuff <.<

That's "touched in the head," SS. Everyone, please keep in mind that some gestures are not universal and depend on culture. The bent elbow is a classical example of this, though gaining popularity again.

Uncle Ani to the Rescue ^^
What's with the bent elbow?

It's an exaggerated "up yours" gesture. Bare right arm toward individual -> grab pit of right elbow with left hand -> swiftly bring right fist into an upright position by bending right elbow.

ah that one ^^

I knew that one as "fisting". Like the Spaceballs Salute.

There's also the Italian f-signal, not to be confused with "thank you" in ASL (American Sign Language)...