Full Version: CARNIVAL
| QUOTE (knasser @ May 28 2007, 02:02 PM) |
| This sounds good! I don't know whether the aspect should be 3 or 4. But either way, the players are going to have to rely on their smarts to get out with their target. At least it's more obvious with 4. I love what you've done with Hotfoot / Bramble. Really fits the atmosphere and the Hedge Witchcraft. I'm starting to think that Hedge Witchcraft is better anyway. I have a new group starting next month so I might copy that. Couple of notes: Balamohan is a man's name. Bandhula or Bandhura would be female equivalents. Secondly, make sure you have some good reasons for the player's sticking around. When they realise how much of a disadvantage the home terrain is, they may well be tempted to get out of there fast and try something else. My approach is to put strong deadlines on the rescue, but another idea I had was about hooking the players in to the Carnival by having Rebus either put some sort of brand on them or get hold of some ritual links to them. They seriously do not want to leave with that in his possession and if they do, then it lets Rebus hook them back in. Especially if they hadn't realised sHe had taken them. Rebus also has the supporting mages and an aspected base to do it from, too! Sounds like they have a good team, though. My predicitions - Siren will run aground when she finds that most of the opposition are female / transgender and will get herself into deep trouble with one of them, Sin will initially worry when the raven grows weak and also end up having to mind control either Kodiak or Calibur to protect him from Rebus's illusions and manipulations. And the hacker will grin very very widely. Anyway, I hope it's creepy, that's the main thing. Look forward to hearing about it! -K. |
Yeah, I was going to change Balamohan's name, I forgot to say that - thanks for the suggestions though! =)
I think I'll go with an aspect of 4 - if the runners do very badly, I might have Harlequin grow tired of it and Cleanse it a point or two.
Well, working for a triad boss who will be VERY disappointed if the PCs fail is one reason for them to stick around. I also have a few tricks up my sleeve to get them to go back if they leave, but I'll fill you in on what happens later - I'll be running this over thew weekend.
Glad you liked 'Bramble' =) Going further with the whole witchcraft thing, I have Rebus' wicker men include a human heart in the middle, and the PCs 'might' stumble onto a late night ritual in the big tent where Rebus and friends are creating a new wicker an, using the sacrifice of either the lost triad member or another of Laylah or Delphine's victims...
Alright - I ran this yesterday. It took 6 hours, and created a lot of frustration on the part of the players, and a lot of Edge use on the part of the runners.
I've put in spoiler tags to keep the post from becoming too large.
The team got the job to investigate the disappearance of a triad member, knowing only that the carnival was the last place she went to.
They did some digging, but failed to pick up on the organized crime connection.
I've put in spoiler tags to keep the post from becoming too large.
The team got the job to investigate the disappearance of a triad member, knowing only that the carnival was the last place she went to.
They did some digging, but failed to pick up on the organized crime connection.
[ Spoiler ]
[ Spoiler ]
[ Spoiler ]
Just finished the game.
Knasser:
1) Domain Rating 4 - Site of significant event and experience that event or something similar on irregular basis. Was the Domain created by Rebus or did he aspect an existing Background Count? Are Rebus's rituals be able to have the emotional and spiritual scope of a battlefield with emotional yearly consecration or a massive and brutal riot & occasional demonstrations? I'd call it at Rating 3 at best, Rating 2 fits the canon description better. As a player of mine remarked, when he discovered that the Domain was Rating 4 - which teocalli got blown up?
2) Domain Rating 4 - Or is the Domain aspected from an existing Domain? Such a powerful Domain would unlikely to be unclaimed by another magical group. Did Rebus deplaced the former group? How long has the Carnival been there?
3) The group did legwork and found out as much as they could about the Carnival itself and the people in the Carnival specifically. Hence they found out that the names and descriptions of the NPCs from people who had visited the Carnival and the player's deductions in paranthesis. Rebus - ringmaster(may be ringleader, unlikely that the leader of so many Awakened is mundane, probable most dangerous of the lot, social adept? manip/illusion magician?), Laylah(pretty girl, sole survior of Tehran? highly likely to have magic, almost certainly manip/illusion magician, maybe spirit), Delphine(fortune teller - Divination metamagic?), Thunderball and Hotfoot (almost certainly combat adepts), Piotr(almost certainly magician), Balmoran - (healer?). The Vory connection was found out but they did not focus on the Vory part, outsourcing to the Triad to deal with since they can profit from the Vory losing the Carnival.
4) The Divining question was : "Will our plan succeed in rescuing the youth alive with minimum injuries on our side, despite any foreknowledge by our enemies of our actions?" I was running the NPCs as written, so the party Diviner had more dice than Dephine.
5) The Triad boss(using Consiglieri contact) was facing Social Adept who can piss on his mom. So even after modifiers, the Social Adept still ended with 2 more hits.
6) The game as written does not state when the Triad boss expects them to report back and since Social Adept was talking(and he wasn't pissing on the Triad boss's mom), I allowed them 3 days to "rescue if alive and kill the fornicating bastards if dead", especially since the Social Adept was the one who suggested 3 days. Also gathering information to me is gathering the relevant info, so unless a glitch occurs, there won't be false information. Filtering out the false info is part of the roll.
7) Triad boss was informed of Vory connection and was persuaded to run interference if the Vory were to show up.
Physical location of youth determined via long range drone surveillance.
9) PCs sneak into the carnival after hours(just before dawn of 3rd day). Cleansing with Edge drops Background Count to zilch. Final body count: Rebus(snipered while trying to escape), Piotr(first to die), Thunderball and Hotfoot(both manabolted dead). Delphine Stick & Shocked. Laylah disrupted, but PCs have assensed her. Child had to be Stick and Shocked.
My PCs never entered the Carnival grounds or overtly revealed themselves until they were ready to execute their plans. I ran Rebus away the minute the Background Count dropped and his spirits told him about the intruders.
Knasser:
1) Domain Rating 4 - Site of significant event and experience that event or something similar on irregular basis. Was the Domain created by Rebus or did he aspect an existing Background Count? Are Rebus's rituals be able to have the emotional and spiritual scope of a battlefield with emotional yearly consecration or a massive and brutal riot & occasional demonstrations? I'd call it at Rating 3 at best, Rating 2 fits the canon description better. As a player of mine remarked, when he discovered that the Domain was Rating 4 - which teocalli got blown up?
2) Domain Rating 4 - Or is the Domain aspected from an existing Domain? Such a powerful Domain would unlikely to be unclaimed by another magical group. Did Rebus deplaced the former group? How long has the Carnival been there?
3) The group did legwork and found out as much as they could about the Carnival itself and the people in the Carnival specifically. Hence they found out that the names and descriptions of the NPCs from people who had visited the Carnival and the player's deductions in paranthesis. Rebus - ringmaster(may be ringleader, unlikely that the leader of so many Awakened is mundane, probable most dangerous of the lot, social adept? manip/illusion magician?), Laylah(pretty girl, sole survior of Tehran? highly likely to have magic, almost certainly manip/illusion magician, maybe spirit), Delphine(fortune teller - Divination metamagic?), Thunderball and Hotfoot (almost certainly combat adepts), Piotr(almost certainly magician), Balmoran - (healer?). The Vory connection was found out but they did not focus on the Vory part, outsourcing to the Triad to deal with since they can profit from the Vory losing the Carnival.
4) The Divining question was : "Will our plan succeed in rescuing the youth alive with minimum injuries on our side, despite any foreknowledge by our enemies of our actions?" I was running the NPCs as written, so the party Diviner had more dice than Dephine.
5) The Triad boss(using Consiglieri contact) was facing Social Adept who can piss on his mom. So even after modifiers, the Social Adept still ended with 2 more hits.
6) The game as written does not state when the Triad boss expects them to report back and since Social Adept was talking(and he wasn't pissing on the Triad boss's mom), I allowed them 3 days to "rescue if alive and kill the fornicating bastards if dead", especially since the Social Adept was the one who suggested 3 days. Also gathering information to me is gathering the relevant info, so unless a glitch occurs, there won't be false information. Filtering out the false info is part of the roll.
7) Triad boss was informed of Vory connection and was persuaded to run interference if the Vory were to show up.
Physical location of youth determined via long range drone surveillance.9) PCs sneak into the carnival after hours(just before dawn of 3rd day). Cleansing with Edge drops Background Count to zilch. Final body count: Rebus(snipered while trying to escape), Piotr(first to die), Thunderball and Hotfoot(both manabolted dead). Delphine Stick & Shocked. Laylah disrupted, but PCs have assensed her. Child had to be Stick and Shocked.
My PCs never entered the Carnival grounds or overtly revealed themselves until they were ready to execute their plans. I ran Rebus away the minute the Background Count dropped and his spirits told him about the intruders.
Wow, snowRaven! It sounds as though your group did very well. I hope the frustration they felt at the beginning wasn't too much of a Hate-The-GM type. Disrupting Laylah, killing Thunderball and injuring Delphine sounds pretty impressive. Nice resolution too, with Rebus surviving to gather his forces again. But definitely some smarts on the players part in getting the carnival worker out with the nanopaste and I like that they retreated, regrouped and came back for more.
I take it that they didn't figure out Harlequin.
I'm starting a new group of players on Shadowrun in a couple of weeks. They wont be ready for Carnival for a while yet, but I'm hoping they'll be ready in time for Halloween. I'm going to copy you, in fact, and switch everything to Hedge Magic, playing up the blasphemous angle of Rebus sneaking in on a technicality if I can work it in there.
Thanks a lot for posting back all that description of the run. Was fun to read.
-K.
| QUOTE (toturi @ Jun 2 2007, 05:09 PM) |
| 4) The Divining question was : "Will our plan succeed in rescuing the youth alive with minimum injuries on our side, despite any foreknowledge by our enemies of our actions?" |
*Jaw on the floor.*
I really don't know what to say. I'm sorry that your group didn't enjoy it much.
As you specifically asked about the domain, I pitched it at four because other examples of four given in SM were a park that saw a violent riot and still occasionally sees political protest, an old battleground that is commemorated yearly, etc. Rating three lists things like a church where something spiritually significant once happened, etc. I figured a place where perhaps upwards of thirty people participated in ritual human sacrifice on a reasonably frequent basis, the home of a shadowspirit and deliberately enhanced / aspected by a black magician with geomancy rated a four. Possibly higher, but I thought it would be too unbeatable for most groups.
Ultimately Toturi, and I said this in the PMs as well, you were the GM. The level of the background count and the power of the opposition was chosen by you.
-K.
With Geomancy, I think it is very believable to create an aspected domain of 4.
To 'solve' the problem of the high rating despite the carnival moving around etc, I figured Rebus has aspected the physical components of the carnival itself, as well as working the carnival's usual sites.
Oh, and knasser - I forgot to say: The players had a lot of fun (with the possible exception of the one playing Sin, who felt somewhat helpless, but had a fairly good time regardless). The rest stayed until 4 in the morning to finish the run because they enjoyed it so much.
They tried to get help from Harlequin, but that didn't really inspire him - I had him appear with one of his signature diamonds painted on his face at the end, and the players figured out who it was.
Toturi - clever of your players to pump carnival goers for information about the people there, and them having Cleansing takes away all the advantage Rebus has. In fact, I checked up on Cleansing and since it only takes 1 Complex Action I feel it might be a bit too powerful - with Cleansing, you really do not need to get Filtering - it's easier just to remove the background count altogether. I'll have to check, but I think Cleansing was more balanced in previous editions.
As a GM, I wouldn't allow that question for divination though. It states in Street Magic that you need a 'subject' or a suitable link, and that you get to ask one question about the sibject's future. In this case, the question was far too general to fit the description of the metamagic, IMO. More approperiate would have been to ask 'What will happen to <runner> if we go through with the plan as stated?' Then it says that it is up to the GM to adjust the answer "to be as specific or vague as suits the story and to maintain drama." Personally, I think you are letting your players get away with a little too much in regards to the Divining.
Having the Triad boss reveal the botched attempt by his soldiers is also iffy in my mind - The social modifiers for that roll should be around -7 dice for the adept, PLUS the difference in street rep between the adept and the triad boss (I figure a triad boss should have a very high street cred, so the end result should be somewhere around -10 for the adept) and then possibly a +2 modifier for the triad boss. It's still doable, though, but the face would have the ask the right questions.
Despite those two points, it looks like they did their homework very well and used their abilities to the greatest advantage, and I hope they had fun.
To 'solve' the problem of the high rating despite the carnival moving around etc, I figured Rebus has aspected the physical components of the carnival itself, as well as working the carnival's usual sites.
Oh, and knasser - I forgot to say: The players had a lot of fun (with the possible exception of the one playing Sin, who felt somewhat helpless, but had a fairly good time regardless). The rest stayed until 4 in the morning to finish the run because they enjoyed it so much.
They tried to get help from Harlequin, but that didn't really inspire him - I had him appear with one of his signature diamonds painted on his face at the end, and the players figured out who it was.
Toturi - clever of your players to pump carnival goers for information about the people there, and them having Cleansing takes away all the advantage Rebus has. In fact, I checked up on Cleansing and since it only takes 1 Complex Action I feel it might be a bit too powerful - with Cleansing, you really do not need to get Filtering - it's easier just to remove the background count altogether. I'll have to check, but I think Cleansing was more balanced in previous editions.
As a GM, I wouldn't allow that question for divination though. It states in Street Magic that you need a 'subject' or a suitable link, and that you get to ask one question about the sibject's future. In this case, the question was far too general to fit the description of the metamagic, IMO. More approperiate would have been to ask 'What will happen to <runner> if we go through with the plan as stated?' Then it says that it is up to the GM to adjust the answer "to be as specific or vague as suits the story and to maintain drama." Personally, I think you are letting your players get away with a little too much in regards to the Divining.
Having the Triad boss reveal the botched attempt by his soldiers is also iffy in my mind - The social modifiers for that roll should be around -7 dice for the adept, PLUS the difference in street rep between the adept and the triad boss (I figure a triad boss should have a very high street cred, so the end result should be somewhere around -10 for the adept) and then possibly a +2 modifier for the triad boss. It's still doable, though, but the face would have the ask the right questions.
Despite those two points, it looks like they did their homework very well and used their abilities to the greatest advantage, and I hope they had fun.
| QUOTE (knasser) | ||
*Jaw on the floor.* I really don't know what to say. I'm sorry that your group didn't enjoy it much. As you specifically asked about the domain, I pitched it at four because other examples of four given in SM were a park that saw a violent riot and still occasionally sees political protest, an old battleground that is commemorated yearly, etc. Rating three lists things like a church where something spiritually significant once happened, etc. I figured a place where perhaps upwards of thirty people participated in ritual human sacrifice on a reasonably frequent basis, the home of a shadowspirit and deliberately enhanced / aspected by a black magician with geomancy rated a four. Possibly higher, but I thought it would be too unbeatable for most groups. Ultimately Toturi, and I said this in the PMs as well, you were the GM. The level of the background count and the power of the opposition was chosen by you. -K. |
There are no canon rules for creating a Background Count through Geomancy, only using it to aspect the BC to your tradition. The physical components of the Carnival could serve as "observing the geomantic lore of the initiate's tradition". The minute the Carnival leaves an old site, there's a BC there, is anyone moving in? - every Magical Group and their pet Free Spirit wants one. Assuming that having a regular ritual sacrifice + shadow spirit home can create BC4 and I don't know how long that will take, there's the problem of aspecting it and that takes 4 months, so it will take 4+ months to get to Aspected Domain 4. Unless the ritual sacrifice(BC creation) and BC aspecting is merged together, even then it should still take 4 months. And no, I don't want to allow a portable BC, NPC or not. A Domain 6 Citymaster isn't funny.
BTW, my players enjoyed it, why did you assume that my players didn't enjoy it? Just because I allowed them to use Divination in such a manner doesn't mean they didn't like it, my players are old CCG players, always looking for the "broken" combos and they enjoy this sort of thing. And as long as I feel that they did it RAW, I'm fine too.
We finished it in roughly the same time as snow's group ~ 6 hours. For me, if a written adventure does not have written scaleable villians, I will not scale them. I would take it that the NPCs f-ed up and bite off more than they could chew.
SnowRaven:
The boss's son and (probable)heir is in danger. He knows that his own people can't handle it, he already tried in house. Revealing his weakness is balanced by the fact that he wants his kid back(so Character's desired result is at once Advantageous and Annoying to the NPC). I set up the Triad boss as an Equal Opponent, so Street Cred on both ends were the same and by canon, the only Notoriety that the boss should have is the one for Killing an innocent person (and you can only kill an man in so many ways). And besides, Notoriety would not have helped as it was a Etiquette roll, not Intimidation.
The RP was good for the meet with the boss was good. The entire conversation was in Mandarin:
"I know your son is in trouble, big brother. But we are outsiders. We would rather not interfere in the affairs of your family. 'Family affairs should not be shared with the outside'(it is actually quite idiomatic, but it loses in translation)"
"Everyone here is Han(Chinese). We are all brothers; if your brother needed your aid, would you not help him?"
"Since you put it that way, then we are family. Your trouble is my trouble, we will see what we can do, but we might require assistance from you to save your child(heir)."
"What parent will not do so? 'Even a savage tiger will do all to save its cubs.'"
| QUOTE (snowRaven @ Jun 3 2007, 12:28 AM) |
| Oh, and knasser - I forgot to say: The players had a lot of fun (with the possible exception of the one playing Sin, who felt somewhat helpless, but had a fairly good time regardless). The rest stayed until 4 in the morning to finish the run because they enjoyed it so much. |
Well that's a relief! I was worrying it was a complete washout.
Regarding:
| QUOTE (snowRaven) |
In fact, I checked up on Cleansing and since it only takes 1 Complex Action I feel it might be a bit too powerful - with Cleansing, you really do not need to get Filtering - it's easier just to remove the background count altogether. I'll have to check, but I think Cleansing was more balanced in previous editions. |
It's actually four complex actions (1 for each point of background count), but yes - big difference! It does explicitly state that it's up to the GM whether each particular domain can be affected by cleansing or not, but that's a bit of a cop out to me. I think that I'm heading for my fourth house rule at this point and either making the cleansing an extended test with a longer interval or adjusting the threshold from background count / 2 to just background count. Probably both in fact. If I make it an extended test, I'll probably bump that threshold up to 4x background count, or something. Cleansing already has a useful function in erasing signatures of your own magic, so I'm not worried about making the power useless.
@toturi: Yes, I intend the background count of the Carnival to be portable(ish). I don't think its an immediate opening to a Citymaster with it's own mobile Domain Field. There's a qualatitive difference between a Carnival and a vehicle of any size. If it came up in play, I'd likely have the background count of the Carnival rising rapidly as it was set-up and leave only dark traces in the astral once it was gone.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
For me, if a written adventure does not have written scaleable villians, I will not scale them. |
All NPCs in a written adventure are scalable. You are the GM. It is a bit of paper. I guarentee you will win any confrontation between it and yourself.
Seriously, I do not get your adherance to what some guy on dumpshock (me) has written. But I am very glad that you and your group enjoyed it, no matter how different our playing styles. I kind of concluded that it hasn't been because for me, the way it sounds like it went would not have been fun. It would have missed out the pages and pages of little details and atmosphere I put in to make the setting realistic and broad. For me, a lot of the fun would have been player reactions to Balhamoran's tent full of enhancements (the Slicer-Dicer-Honour-Defender, sports logo'd penises, horn customisation for trolls) and the SIMsense recording tents where you could do a SIM of you and your partner having sex, to mail to your ex-. That sort of stuff as well as the obviously sinister environment. In short - immersing the players in the detail of the Carnival! It didn't sound as though any of that came through in the game your players played, hence my thinking it had been a failure.
If I can ever persuade IMR to pay me to do a full adventure, then you'll get to see something that might satisfy your need for "robustness" though.
Here's hoping... 
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| All NPCs in a written adventure are scalable. You are the GM. It is a bit of paper. I guarentee you will win any confrontation it and yourself. |
Then it would not be As Written. I couldn't live with myself.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| SnowRaven: The boss's son and (probable)heir is in danger. He knows that his own people can't handle it, he already tried in house. Revealing his weakness is balanced by the fact that he wants his kid back(so Character's desired result is at once Advantageous and Annoying to the NPC). I set up the Triad boss as an Equal Opponent, so Street Cred on both ends were the same and by canon, the only Notoriety that the boss should have is the one for Killing an innocent person (and you can only kill an man in so many ways). And besides, Notoriety would not have helped as it was a Etiquette roll, not Intimidation. The RP was good for the meet with the boss was good. The entire conversation was in Mandarin: "I know your son is in trouble, big brother. But we are outsiders. We would rather not interfere in the affairs of your family. 'Family affairs should not be shared with the outside'(it is actually quite idiomatic, but it loses in translation)" "Everyone here is Han(Chinese). We are all brothers; if your brother needed your aid, would you not help him?" "Since you put it that way, then we are family. Your trouble is my trouble, we will see what we can do, but we might require assistance from you to save your child(heir)." "What parent will not do so? 'Even a savage tiger will do all to save its cubs.'" |
Well, for the first part, one could argue that revealing the triad failed would make the runners less likely to take on the mission, thereby making it less likely to get his son back (though if he really wanted the son back at any cost, he'd just send a small army of the baddest adepts and wujen and gangers he has).
As for the RP session - I don't know what city you ran all this in, but if all the runners were chinese and it wasn't a city in china or hong kong, and/or they spoke correctly with all the 'right' things to say, then I fully understand the lower modifiers and that the lodgemaster was more willing to share his predicament. (Though I'd still mark the Triad lodgemaster as at least Superior if not Superhuman in regards to reputation and such, though of course I do not know the experience level of the player characters - by the way, it would be interesting to hear what their team is ).
| QUOTE (toturi) | ||
Then it would not be As Written. I couldn't live with myself. |
LoL
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