Well, I would agree that in some situations if you don't have a weapon and you can't run away fast enough, you're boned. Indeed, the situation # 1 and # 2 that I mentioned above in this thread.


But I think that in a sense unarmed combat ability is more versatile for civilians than carrying a weapon while not being very good at unarmed combat. The reason is that the lethal response that a weapon provides may not be legally appropriate for all situations even if you may be in some danger.

For example, let's say that someone is very angry at me and is determined to beat me to the ground and then stomp on my skull repeatedly until I stop moving. If I have little hand to hand combat ability but I have a firearm, what am I going to do? If I shoot him, then the disparity of force is in my disfavor and I just used lethal force against a non-lethal unarmed attack. But if I don't shoot him and merely pull the gun without the intention of shooting him, I can easily be disarmed. And if I don't defend myself at all, I could still be seriously hurt or even killed. The gun dosen't really provide the flexible response that unarmed combat would in that situation. The scenario would be similar if he had some kind of blunt object. It would only become a situation where you'd really need a firearm if he had an edged weapon or another firearm and intended to slay you on the spot. And in that case, even if you had a firearm, you could still easily be killed.

The other thing is that if you survive a situation using unarmed combat, the disparity of force would usually be in your favor legally because you were unarmed. But if you stab someone or shoot them then the disparity of force may easily be counted against you.


Furthermore, if you are very comfortable with unarmed combat I think that it makes any weapons you do carry more effective. For example, if you carry pepper spray but are bad at unarmed combat it would be relatively easy to clamp a hand over the nozzle and disarm you if your attacker can clear the distance before you are able to hit his face. But if you are good at unarmed combat, the pepper spray becomes an absolutely nasty surprise in your arsenal.

If you have no other options and kill him when he is clearly intent on causing you serious and even lethal harm, it's unlikely you'll get convicted of anything in any sensible court of law (take note: such courts only exist in about half of America, and not many other places, at the moment). Ultimately, if you get in a situation where lethal force is involved, I'm not even sure I'd advise sticking around for the cops to show up even if you were within all sensible boundaries. Far too many stories about guys going to jail for completely reasonable uses of force in self defense.

Anyway, while I can understand your friend's point, personally, I view carrying a weapon as an extension of capability. While it's not sensible to always carry, where one can and can effectively, I'd rather have it than not. That doesn't mean I'll use it if I get in a fight, but the option is there. What is most important, however, is to remember that any weapon is just a weapon; you must always remain in control of the situation, and being armed is absolutely secondary.

Well said, Arethusa. (Except for the splitting ere the cops show. You want to carry a gun, you'd better be willing to put some faith in the justice system. As you said, some are easier to believe in than others. Pick where you frequent carefully.)

Ronin, if you want to continue this dicussion, I suggest we do it somewhere more appropriate. Say, the SST forum on Bulldrek. Say the word and I'll set it up.

That would probably be a good idea. But, what is the URL?

http://www.bulldrek.com

OK, I've registered.

We're in the Self Defense thread in the Semi-Serious forum.

Most excellent. I'm writing up a response now.

When talknig baout hiding guns it's probably for the best that SR uses a numerical rating, if we argue or not. Just hiding a toy on your person isn't the same thing. There's a weight to a gun. It's not just a bulge under your coat but a weight that affects how you move.

Is that 5kilograms of death dealing metal under your jacket, or are you just happy to see me? Ah for the glorious days, back when the concealability of the Great Dragon ATGM was 4...

There are times when I have trouble believing that 3rd edition is deeply and thoroughly sane in comparison to the previous versions with which I have no experience.

This is not one of those times.

It's hard to discrib, but even the difference between loaded and unloaded is notciible.