I wouldn't think so. "Tommy gun" to me implies any submachine gun of the pattern devised by General Thompson, including the WWII-era M1 and M1A1 Thompsons that were modified from the original design in order to speed up wartime production. At least, they were called "Tommy guns" by soldiers, as just about every common long arm used during WWII had the type classification of M1 (M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, etc...).

The first model, M1921, would be the quintessential Thompson SMG. It's the one you see in all the old gangster flicks, with the finned barrel, Cutts compensator, removable stock and vertical foregrip. These were manufactured in a single lot of 15,000 guns and all subsequent models until the M1 were built off of guns from that initial production run. The M1927 was restricted to semi-automatic fire only. The military M1928 discarded the forward grip for a conventional wooden foreend you see on later models. M1921, M1927 and M1928 models could use 20 or 30-round box magazines as well as 50 or 100 round drum magazines.

The M1 model was simplified by omitting the Blish delayed blowback system in favor of straight blowback, as was the compensator. The sights were simplified, the barrels were not finned, the charging handle was moved to the right side rather than the top of the weapon, stock was not detachable, and the straight foreend of the M1928 model was used. The M1A1 was further simplified by omitting the hammer and moving firing pin, replacing them with a fixed firing pin formed in the bolt face. (Unlike most modern rifles and SMGs, all Thompsons fire from an open bolt. Thus, when the trigger is pulled, the bolt is released and driven forward under spring pressure, a cartridge is chambered and when the bolt closes, the firing pin impacts the primer, firing the round. Recoil then drives the bolt rearward and the spent case is ejected. When the trigger is released (in FA mode) the sear arrests the bolt at its rearward position and holds it there until the trigger is pulled again). Neither model could use the drum magazines, only the 20 or 20-round box magazines. Almost 1.5 million of them were manufactured during WWII.

Here's how I do it:

Model: M1921, M1928
Caliber: .45 ACP
Range: SMG
Conceal: 3 (+1 with stock removed)
Ammo: 20, 30 (clip); 50 (-1 Conceal), 100 (-2 Conceal) (drum)
Mode: SA/FA (M1927: SA mode only)
Damage: 9M
Weight: 5.5 kg (Loaded: 20 box: +0.57; 30 box: +0.8; 50-rd drum +2.15 kg)
Cost: 1,100 ¥ (New Reproduction)
Foregrip provides -1 recoil.

Model: M1, M1A1
Caliber: .45 ACP
Range: SMG
Conceal: 3
Ammo: 20, 30 (clip)
Mode: SA/FA
Damage: 9M
Weight: 5 kg (Loaded: 20 box: +0.57; 30 box: +0.8 )
Cost: 1,100 ¥ (New Reproduction)

By straight SR rules, it should do SMG damage, 7M. I give the .45 ACP a DC of 8M, but the Thompson gets an additional +1 because the barrel is twice as long (10") as the handgun the .45 ACP was designed to be fired through. More velocity, more energy, +1 power. Certainly arguable, but that's how I do it.

Meh. We'll have to disagree there. Tommy Gun to me means fedoras and getaway cars. If he had asked for stats for a Thompson, I'd have been inclined to assume he meant the military model.

This?

Not really. I'm sure there're plenty of cases where people have been hit in the torso with expanding .45 ACP rounds and have managed to function for at least several minutes. The difference between proper expanding .45 ACPs and 9x19mms is that the .45 creates a wound channel about 15% wider, which means 15% more bleeding surface and a 30% greater chance of hitting something critical. A good load with the .50 would propably guarantee more than sufficient penetration while creating a wound channel at least 25% greater still than the .45 ACP.

With non-expanding rounds, the difference between the .45 and the 9x19 is more noticeable, since the bullet of the former is 27% greater in diameter than the latter.

Proper expanding ammunition should not over-penetrate by much, unless you hit a thin person or unobstructed at a straight angle. In any case, regardless of the caliber in question, the ammunition should be chosen such that the penetration is about the same (in the 12"-18" range), so differences in penetration between defense handgun loadings in .45 and e.g. 9x19 are first and foremost down to the bullet design. With non-expanding ammunition, just about any handgun will bore right through a human, maybe even two. Because of the greater kinetic energy/bullet diameter ratio, 9mm FMJs tend to penetrate more tissue than .45 ACP FMJs.

If I were GMing an otherwise canon game and that came up, I'd make the a .45 ACP handgun do 7M. With Raygun's ammunition rules, it's 8M. In my own game with my house rules, it's 9M/+3 to target armor (I think).

I keep telling you to get a website (gr)!

If you have the information done, atleast somewhat, i'd be happy to try and design something for you. It might not be the prettiest thing, but atleast iw ould be a website, as requested.

This is, if you feel like you don't have the/inclination/knowledge to do it. If you just dont WANT the website, well, then i can't do much for you

No. The 1911 pistol does 8M the way I see it.

The fact that the Power Rating has anything to do with armor penetration is what makes that rediculous, but you knew that already. Even 8M is a bit much in that sense.

So are the Samauri and Shamans, but they have their place in Shadowrun.

Besides, they are good guns.

It basically comes down to kinetic energy and how much of it you need to perform a certain task. New propellants and bullet materials aren't going to make cartridges significantly more powerful than they are today without any other costs (for example, increased weapon weight, increased recoil, accelerated wear). Simply put, if you need a significant increase in energy and terminal effectiveness, you just plain need more bullet.

The heavy pistols (read: defensive handguns) of Shadowrun aren't likely to be any different in terms of energy output than they are today, considering that the vast majority of threats out there have not changed (human, elf, dwarf) in terms of how much energy is required to stop them and how much recoil the average user can cope with. That's not to say that there wouldn't be more powerful handguns made to deal with bigger perceived threats (like Orks and Trolls), but those threats are unlikely to drive the market wholly toward more powerful handguns (as opposed to shotguns or rifles). Besides, there are guns made today or even some that have been discontinued that would fall into that defensive niche very nicely (10mm Auto, .44 Auto Mag, .45 Win Mag, .50 AE, .500 Magnum, etc...).

I gaurantee you that .45 ACP, loaded to the same pressures it was in 1905, will be readily available in the next 60 years.

Depending on the gun, it might blow up in your face. But that doesn't mean that you can't use less modern propellant (smokless instead of black powder) to acheive a result that will function well as a defensive handgun. Basically what has happened between then and now is that the volume of powder needed to produce the same result has been reduced, resulting in a smaller cartridge case. Thus, you get the .45 ACP as compared to the .45 Colt. The energy output is virtually unchanged (a difference of about 20 fpe), as there has been no need to increase it.

And the weapon could weigh more, as the action would likely need to made stronger to support the increase in chamber pressure (though that can be alleviated somewhat by making the rest of the gun out of lighter weight materials), and barrels would wear faster, assuming that more pressure is pumped through a bore of the same diameter (for example, .22-250 in comparison to .223).

As far as handguns go, ballistics have been comparable since the 1870s (.32-20 WCF, .38-40 WCF, .44-40 WCF, .45 Colt compared to .380 Auto, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP etc...), about 30 years before smokless powders became common.

If the gun is designed to handle the pressure, anyway. You could load a .45 Colt case to .454 Casull pressures with smokeless powder, but if you fire said cartridge in a Colt 1873 SAA, you're likely to be going to the hospital afterward.

Thanks for the compliment.

Since I moved away from my group in Dallas a few years ago, an opportunity to play Shadowrun has been very sporadic, and I don't much like playing online, unfortunately. In fact, at this point it's been nearly a year and a half since I last played any RPG at all.

Firearms just interest me, really. The more you learn about them you tend to find yourself learning about a slew of other things that relate to them. History, engineering, metallurgy, machining, psychology, hunting... A ton of different things. I'm not in the industry, but I do build or modify them for friends occasionally. It's just a hobby, one I thought that other Shadowrun players could benefit from.