In SR4, bioware improvements to attributes are no longer considered natural for the purposes of things that differentiate between natural and augmented values, correct?

They are considered "augmentations" in the same way that CyberWare is, and can exceed the racial maximum up to the augmented racial maximum. I'm not sure that's what you meant though...

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was asking. Mostly wondering about oddities like toxins, shapeshifting, etc.

Kind of a shame, as I always liked the "natural" stat improvement angle.

The one that gets me, honestly, since you bring it up, is Shapeshift. You can only change into a critter withing two of your BODy, but BODy isn't always "size". And if you augment the stat, you're suddenly "too big"? I always figured for that spell you should use starting stat... improvements represent better health and endurance, not size and bulk.

Agreed. I tend to think that if a character is large/small in metahuman form, they would simply be larger or smaller than the average representative of an animal's species. If anything, Strength should add more bulk than Body.

In order to deal with rules like this that make sense in a game balance way, but not in a common sense way, I like to use the following strategy:

1: Squint really, really, hard
2: Mumble the mantra "It's magic, It's magic, It's magic"
3: If all else fails engage in self-flagellation with a halibut

Hummm, halibut is expensive. Is it ok to us a slab of Krill instead? 2 at the stuffer shack.

Expensive, but if I'm going to self-flagellate, I only use the best.

I am SO totally not going anywhere near that.

Just remember, folks, that conducting your slar phase with your aquatic flagelatory device is counterindicated.

(Translation: It's a bad idea to sleep with the fishes.)

I think I'm just going to go narfle a Garthok now.

"I've got to - ah ah - get ah-way; got to - ah ah - get ah-way!"

And here, I though that Carp was the fish of choice for the Shadowrun fandom since 22 October 1992 (21:03:17 CET).

Careful... you'll go blind doing that.

Just an excuse to upgrade to cybereyes sooner.

You know, I have to wonder how many folks here even know what you're talking about.

*sigh*

Sad, really.

Tea, Peanut Butter vs Vegemite, Woodchucks, Carp, Topcat's Manifesto... There's a lot of history there that's been mostly lost to cyberspace. :/

Bull

Ahhh but the resonance never forgets.