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k1tsune
What sort of EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse, for the seriously acronym challenged) generators are available in Shadowrun?
Lindt
none presently. And seeing as most things are opticly powered (hey, lets break from realism here, even optical has normal chips behind it) it wont do jack.
Cray74
QUOTE (k1tsune)
What sort of EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse, for the seriously acronym challenged) generators are available in Shadowrun?

You can probably build yourself some interesting toys from plans off the Matrix. The generalities of non-nuclear EMP bombs are available on the internet today.

However, they won't do much. Shadowrun makes the point in the main book that chips are most optical and immune to EMP.
kevyn668
QUOTE
Cray74 Posted on Jan 28 2004, 09:56 PM
  QUOTE (k1tsune)
What sort of EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse, for the seriously acronym challenged) generators are available in Shadowrun? 


You can probably build yourself some interesting toys from plans off the Matrix. The generalities of non-nuclear EMP bombs are available on the internet today.



Make sure to say "hi" to the nice folks at Homeland Security! biggrin.gif
k1tsune
QUOTE (kevyn668)
Make sure to say "hi" to the nice folks at Homeland Security! biggrin.gif

Yeah. They've been after me ever since I started carrying around my Almanac.
Adarael
Y'all forgot one. 'Zapper' rockets, from Rigger 3.

That's actually a canon EMP wave weapon.
sable twilight
Hi homeland security

Except cyberware, that stuff can be damaged with an electrical surge. So should it not also be susceptible to EMP?
kevyn668
QUOTE
k1tsune Posted on Jan 28 2004, 10:05 PM
  QUOTE (kevyn668)
Make sure to say "hi" to the nice folks at Homeland Security! 


Yeah. They've been after me ever since I started carrying around my Almanac. 


And rightly so. nyahnyah.gif
Nath
Optical chips themselves would be immune to EMP. Their electric alimentation wouldn't. As for generating the EMP, the alternative to nuclear explosion is, to stay simple, a highly-charged radar antenna (which unlike the nuclear weapon, is directional). I don't know the detail, but I guess if they can pack a lightly destructive laser in a pistol, EMP should be feasible. If SR was coherent grinbig.gif

EDIT: Just remembered, there's the ANDREWS in Rigger 3, requiring a nuclear power plant.
PuyallupSquatter
Some sort of future-tech EMP-style weapon would make a great prototype heist, tho. Would sonics work against optical chips? Even if not, a good resonate frequency could do some *nasty* stuff to all that metal in a guys body... I can only imagine the headache that would happen if your headware started vibrating really, really hard...

If all else fails, Quantam mechanics, general relativeity theory, string theroy, Enigmatic Misunderstood Future Alien Technology or Because I Said So are all good GM explinations for science.

I really should read those issues of Discover I get more nyahnyah.gif

I did hear that Homeland Security's next target are Trekkies trying to modify their garage door openers into working phasers. The Prime Directive is concidered terrorist doctorine by the current administration, yaknow. biggrin.gif
k1tsune
I'm trying to get ideas for something, but I don't want to say too much because I don't trust my players not to read it.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Nath)
EDIT: Just remembered, there's the ANDREWS in Rigger 3, requiring a nuclear power plant.

ANDREWS isn't an EMP device. It's a particle-beam weapon, fires a stream of high-energy charged particles.

They have 'em in Battletech, too, but there they're called "PPCs".
Jason Farlander
I would imagine that few people bother with EMP weapons because it is so very easy to shield electronics against it (a simple Faraday cage will do the trick, and there are, of course, other means as well).

As for all electronics being "optically based"... WTF does that even mean? How could that possibly work? I can see how all data storage might be optical... but you can't provide power to something with a beam of light.... thats just silly.
Nath
QUOTE (John Campbell)
ANDREWS isn't an EMP device. It's a particle-beam weapon, fires a stream of high-energy charged particles.

AFAIK, if the said charged particle are electrons, when the beam will hit a solid target, there will be EMP. If they are protons, I don't know, but I wouldn't surprised if it messed up as well with electronic systems.

QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
As for all electronics being "optically based"... WTF does that even mean? How could that possibly work? I can see how all data storage might be optical... but you can't provide power to something with a beam of light.... thats just silly.

The use of rhodopsine in electronic is explained in Shadowtech. To sum up, it's a molecule that change it's state when hit by a laser powerful enough, act as a filter if the laser is not powerful enough, and is stable enough to store information. Such laser-based technology are more precise than magnetic fields used in nowadays storage.
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (Nath)
The use of rhodopsine in electronic is explained in Shadowtech. To sum up, it's a molecule that change it's state when hit by a laser powerful enough, act as a filter if the laser is not powerful enough, and is stable enough to store information. Such laser-based technology are more precise than magnetic fields used in nowadays storage.


Right... and I did say that optical data storage makes sense to me... we use optical data storage even now in the form of cd-rws and dvd+/-rws It even makes sense as a means of controling data flow. What does NOT make sense is this:

QUOTE (Lindt)
none presently. And seeing as most things are opticly powered (hey, lets break from realism here, even optical has normal chips behind it) it wont do jack.


I've seen similar statements in other threads... The bottom line is that you can't "power" something via optics. You can't make a motor run no matter how many lasers and rhodopsin switches you have available to you unless you also provide electrical power to that motor. Even the lasers themselves would require electrical input.



Rev
Its like in Neal Stephensons book "Cryptonomicon". At one point some people set off an emp frying a certain computer and everything around them, including automobile computers. The owner of one computer extracts the hard drive, goes somewhere else and installs it into a new computer where it functions normally.

This is total baloney though. A hard disk drive has several microchips inside it all of which would be considerably more delicate than an automotive embedded processor and all of which are essential for the drive to function. If you took that drive to one of those data recovery places I imagine that they could remove the platters and read them, but you could not just plug it into a new computer and expect it to function.

In order for hardware to be immune to EMP's it would have to use absolutely no susceptible components. That the cpu, or even the majority of components are immune is not enough: they must all be immune.
Nath
A hard disk drive like yours and mine is completely vulnerable to EMP (or to a magnet passed on it, probably). It's also a physically fragile system which require hard casing. Removing the disk to put another one, or insert the disk in another reader is a very complicated operation. So when you extract it, you take a block including the disks themselves and the reading system, you never separate them. The equivalent would be to extract your CD drive with the CD inside as a single unit. EMP would fry the laser (the reading system) and let the drive useless, but you can open it and remove the CD. EMP would let the CD itself intact. Like a Rhodopsine chip, it's a very simple, physical system with its own "casing" (lacquer). The data are then retrievable with another computer with a CD drive.

Otherwise, yes, I said it above, there are no "optically-powered" computer. Well, you could still create an insanely large set of mirrors to power a laser in a optical computer, but that's another topic. Having optical data storage and processing systems 'd made me say this "photo-electronic" system is "optically-based". The optical systems are the core of this system.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
but you can't provide power to something with a beam of light.... thats just silly.

Tell that to your microwave.

QUOTE (Nath)
AFAIK, if the said charged particle are electrons, when the beam will hit a solid target, there will be EMP. If they are protons, I don't know, but I wouldn't surprised if it messed up as well with electronic systems.

Yeah, but it's not the primary damaging effect... that'd be the kinetic and thermal energy dumped into the target. Calling ANDREWS an EMP weapon is kind of like saying that DU rounds kill you by heavy metal poisoning.
Nath
QUOTE (John Campbell)
QUOTE (Nath)
AFAIK, if the said charged particle are electrons, when the beam will hit a solid target, there will be EMP. If they are protons, I don't know, but I wouldn't surprised if it messed up as well with electronic systems.

Yeah, but it's not the primary damaging effect... that'd be the kinetic and thermal energy dumped into the target. Calling ANDREWS an EMP weapon is kind of like saying that DU rounds kill you by heavy metal poisoning.

It is precicely said in the weapon's description that it either detonate missiles or fries their components, so that side-effect must be often playing a part in the weapon effectiveness. And ships and other potential targets are much more resilient to thermal and kinetic attacks than missiles are.
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (John Campbell)
QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
but you can't provide power to something with a beam of light.... thats just silly.

Tell that to your microwave.


Cute... but the last time I checked, microwaves did not reside in the visible spectrum -- they are a form of radio wave. And I dont think youll get a lot of people to agree with you if you think that a radio is an excellent example of optical engineering.

Anyway, call me up when you manage to get your microwave to power your toaster.
BitBasher
You are all forgetting that there may hev been some advace in energy transmission and use in SR that works on a concept that has not yet been discovered. It's 60 years in the future. It doesn't HAVE to makes ense based on what we know now.
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (BitBasher)
You are all forgetting that there may hev been some advace in energy transmission and use in SR that works on a concept that has not yet been discovered. It's 60 years in the future. It doesn't HAVE to makes ense based on what we know now.

Perhaps. First, though, I would like someone to provide a canon reference to the fact that electronic devices not directly involved in data storage are now optically powered. Second, I would like to point out that the rules for cybersystem damage from an electrical attack in M&M seem to indicate that if the SR developers ever made the assertion that things like cyberlimbs are optically powered, they have abandoned or ignored this assertion.
Kesh
Not to mention that the microwave is powered from your wall jack. Nothing optical about that. smile.gif
John Campbell
QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
Cute... but the last time I checked, microwaves did not reside in the visible spectrum -- they are a form of radio wave.

"Microwave" is just a term used to describe a certain color of light, higher frequency than radio, but lower frequency than infrared. Calling microwave "a form of radio wave" is both inaccurate, because they're not radio frequency, and irrelevant, because radio waves (and microwaves) are just as much light as any other portion of the spectrum. Microwave ovens operate by transmitting power into the object to be heated via a beam of light. That your eyes aren't equipped to see that light doesn't make it any less a beam of light.

QUOTE
And I dont think youll get a lot of people to agree with you if you think that a radio is an excellent example of optical engineering.

I didn't say it was. Your basic transistor radio is an electronic device. So is a microwave oven. However, they both do exactly what you're claiming is "just silly"... transmit power via a beam of light. So do laser weapons - possibly even in the visible portion of the spectrum. There's been talk of using lasers to launch spaceships... there's no reason that the same principles couldn't be used to spin a turbine, if you insist on light-driven motors. (Though "electric" and "electronic" are not synonymous, so it's entirely possible to have a standard electric motor without any electronics.)

QUOTE
Anyway, call me up when you manage to get your microwave to power your toaster.

I would, but it wouldn't really be newsworthy. The tech is decades old. Try reading up on microwave power transmission.
Bones
Fiber optics transmit using light. Light itself is defined as having both electric properties and magnetic properties i.e. the nature of light is electromagnetic and can act as a wave or particle. That being said, why wouldn't an emp device not affect said cyberware? Just curious. Campbell hit the nail on the head with the microwaves - someone knows their physics smile.gif
moosegod
Alright, how does this sound?

It's Shadowrun and you guys nitpick to much?
Jason Farlander
Well... to be perfectly, technically, accurate... visible light, radio waves, and microwaves are all forms of electromagnetic radiation... light being just a tiny portion of the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation, and certainly not the entirety. Saying that microwaves are a form of light is just improper.

It is actually not improper to refer to microwaves as a type of radio wave... they have the same properties as radio waves (including current induction), and just happen to have to be higher in energy than the radio waves used for communication and have the added property of converting their electromagnetic energy into heat energy when they come into contact with water and certain organic compounds. It is certainly more proper to refer to microwaves as being a type of radio wave than to refer to microwaves as being a type of light.

I am aware of the ability to transmit microwave power... again, this is something that can be done (less efficiently) with lower energy radio waves (You can build AM radios that do not require an external power source). There is even a canon reference to the use of microwave power transmission in SR3. However, not only has it never been suggested that microwaves are used to directly power consumer electronics, but doing so would be incredibly impractical (and dangerous).

What *has* been suggested, and its something John Campbell continues to fail to address, is the actual suggestion that consumer electronics are optically-powered. Optics refers rather specifically to visible light, which, again, is not a description of the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

Anyway...

Bones:

In short, no.

EMP destroys electical circuitry and wires by inducing a current in the conductive material it encounters. Since nothing we use today in conventional electronics is perfectly conductive, the passing of current through any electronic device or wire generates heat. The current induced by a powerful EMP can generate enough heat to destroy electronic equipment. Since fiber optic cables are non-conductive, they would not be directly affected by an EMP.
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (moosegod)
Alright, how does this sound?

It's Shadowrun and you guys nitpick to much?

What's wrong with nitpicking? It's FUN!
Modesitt
QUOTE
Perhaps. First, though, I would like someone to provide a canon reference to the fact that electronic devices not directly involved in data storage are now optically powered. Second, I would like to point out that the rules for cybersystem damage from an electrical attack in M&M seem to indicate that if the SR developers ever made the assertion that things like cyberlimbs are optically powered, they have abandoned or ignored this assertion.


Ask and ye shall receive.

Pg. 30 M&M, left column.

The general rule of thumb is that electronics in SR are optical only when the developers want it to be. They're very non-optical when they want to fuck the PCs over, e.g. the rigger rules on ASIST backlash.
Jason Farlander
Thanks Modesitt. I think this is actually a reference to the fact that you can't delete the information on a computer or memory chip in another device because storage is optical... but its sufficiently vague as to *seem* to *imply* other things. I think I'll go ahead and just ignore that sentence, perhaps replacing "primarily optical-based" with "shielded against electromagnetic interference."
RangerJoe
Having been on the short end of the "everything in SR is optically powered/computed/processed/run/etc." stick I have to say that I agree with our physics/engineering compatriots. Even if almost all computing is "optical," it seems unreasonable that such optical technology would be entirely free of electronic and/or electrical components.

Assuming good old fashioned copper conductors really have gone the way of the dodo, though, in SR, anyone ever think of using the Shadow manipulation to slow down/damage optical computers (or even wipe optical data systems). I quote:

"Shadow creates a globe of darkness with a radius equal to the caster's magic attribute."

Nothing like a physical globe of darkness to damage those pesky optical systems...
Crusher Bob
Note that your SR PC might be using superconductors. This gets rid of the heat/melting from the EMP...
Bones
Nitpicking can be fun biggrin.gif

Concerning the classification of LIGHT: (microwaves are a classification of light)
"The two most obvious properties of light are readily describable in terms of the wave theory of light: intensity and color."
"The color of the light is related to the wavelength or frequence of the light. Visible light- that to which our eyes are sensitive- falls in the wavelength range of about 400nm to 750nm. This is known as the visible spectrum, and within it lie the different colors ..."
"Light with wavelenth shorter than 400nm is called ultraviolet, and light with wavelength greater than 750nm is called infrared."

Giancoli, Douglas, C. PHYSICS: Fifth Edition. Prentice Hall: Upper Saddle River NJ, 1998.

JASON:
So in reality light is the correct classification. However you are confused with visible light.
Jason Farlander
no... No... NO

"Light" refers to the portion of the emr spectrum ranging from infrared to xrays. you said this yourself in your quote. visible light, the only light to which the term "optical" refers, with "optical" being the basis for this entire discussion, is a small portion of the spectrum of all "light" which in turn is only a portion of the spectrum of possible emr. radiowaves are not infrared, and microwaves are radiowaves. im not going to bother explain this again, if you want to continue being wrong thats just fine.
RangerJoe
Well, actually, to be nit-picky about it, "optics" does not by definition limit itself to visible wavelengths. As a matter of custom, though, optics tends to be thought of as a visible light discipline (it's also easier to demonstrate visible light optics in a freshman physics lab than to pull out the ol' cyclotron and the x-ray lenses). As a rule, for higher/lower energy photons, some kind of prefix is added (e.g., gamma ray optics), but only for clarity's sake.

As a rule, though, I'm on your side in all this, JF.

Now, fiber optics (as a technology) tends to only use visible wavelenths of light, becuase it happens to be more practicable to do so. We have assumed, I think, that SR tech uses fiber-optic cables and connections (mostly because there are canon sources that suggest this, but when has that stopped us before). It would be neat if SR tech used something more like advanced electro-optics, which would help explain how electronic devices interact with/change/store/manipulate "optical" information. That, and it would be pretty whiz.

--RangerJoe
"I post more when hopped up on cold medication"
John Campbell
QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
no... No... NO

"Light" refers to the portion of the emr spectrum ranging from infrared to xrays.  you said this yourself in your quote.  visible light, the only light to which the term "optical" refers, with "optical" being the basis for this entire discussion, is a small portion of the spectrum of all "light" which in turn is only a portion of the spectrum of possible emr. radiowaves are not infrared, and microwaves are radiowaves.  im not going to bother explain this again, if you want to continue being wrong thats just fine.

Look, there's a reason that the word "visible" is included in the phrase "visible light". That's because it's describing the visible portion of the full spectrum of light, as opposed to the invisible portion of the spectrum... the stuff from red to violet, as opposed to the stuff between radio and infrared, or ultraviolet to gamma rays. It's all electromagnetic radiation transmitted by photons. It all moves at C in a vacuum. It's all light. Only the frequency differs. It does not have to be visible to the human eye to be light. (Hell, this is Shadowrun we're talking about... what constitutes "visible light" depends on your metatype. Even in the real world, there's inter-species variations there. A lot of insects can see well into the ultraviolet, for example.)

And microwaves are not radio waves. They're higher frequency than radio waves. The spectrum of light is divided into radio, microwave, infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, X-rays, and gamma rays, in order of increasing frequency. The exact boundaries are kind of arbitrary, and based on frequency-dependent behaviour. Microwaves have many of the same properties as radio waves because they're close in frequency... their behaviour is more similar to radio than it is to, say, that of gamma rays. However, they're still a different portion of the spectrum. And as I said before, it wouldn't matter if microwaves were radio waves, because radio waves are still light. Very low-frequency light, but light nonetheless.

And "optical" is not restricted to the visible portion of the spectrum. Or are you claiming that infrared lasers are not optical devices? Or are they only optical devices if you're a dwarf or troll?

And even if you were right, which you're not, it's still irrelevant, because it's entirely possible to transmit power via a beam of light in the visible portion of the spectrum. Ever heard of an opticoupler? What do you think a laser weapon is doing? How do you explain lightsails if transmitting power via a beam of light is "just silly"? (No, lightsails are not propelled by the solar wind.)

Now, I'm not asserting that Shadowrun doesn't use electric power for anything. If nothing else, the presence of power-line masers as datacomm in Matrix is an indication that good old-fashioned electric power land-lines are still in use. However, as I said before, "electric" and "electronic" are not synonymous. Transistors and diodes are electronic components, resistors and capacitors and such are electric but not electronic. If you replace all the transistors and diodes in a device with optical equivalents, you no longer have an electronic device, though it may be (and probably is) still electrically powered.
hobgoblin
while a emp may fry the powersupply and maybe the laser projectors in a SR computer the chips themself would most likely be moveable to a new system. pop the chip out, pop it back in somewhere else, run.

to have a fully optical system you need only lasers at the spot where you connect a powercord on a current motherboard. every pathway and so on would be working by guiding light, not electric power.

allso, the zapper in rigger3 is a gigant capitator, it basicly work like a portable lightning strike smile.gif
Reaver
It's easier if you're a mage; wink.gif

EMP
This spell creates an electromagnetic pulse which can hamper or damage electronic devices; and at high levels, can affect living beings as well. The effects of EMP against electronic components should be treated as stun damage first, with systems coming back on line just as a person would recover from stun damage. Apply an increase in target numbers for the ammount of "stun" the device received. If the stun damage goes into overflow, the components begin to blow out and the whole system breaks down.
Living creatures always resist EMP as stun damage, but at one damage code less. Armor has no effect at reducing the effects of this spell.

Type: Physical
Range: LOS
Target: 4
Duration: Instant
Drain: +4 (Damage Level)
Category: Manipulation
Voran
Heh. My source books are a bit dated, and its difficult to find in-print copies of the things I need, but I've always thought that players should just be glad they never seemed to make it important to define how all a runner's cybergear is powered. Batteries? wow. Hope not. 10+ year mininuclear reactors like cyborgs have in RIFTs? Probably not, otherwise every borg would slap on a beam-weapon first chance they got.

Hate to think of what EMP would do to that if it did exist in a readily-used form in Shadowrun.
Darkest Angel
A lot of you seem to go on about EMP as this superdooper mega thing without actually understanding what it does. Essentially, all it does is induce a current to flow in an closed circuit, this can cause damage to the circuit if too high a potential difference is induced, or if the current is forced to flow in the wrong direction - the usual method is to make current too high for the circuit to withstand, thus shorting out electronic chips, and perhaps even damage the connecting wires.

Now, cyberware, according to M+M is powered by the electric currents generated within the body, so this would mean we're dealing with circuits that run on a very low potential difference, and with a very low current, this means that any slight electromagnetic field could, and probably would cause some interference within the circuitry, and again depending on the degree of the electromagnetic interference could even severely damage, if not completely short out the circuitry quite easily. It therefore makes a lot of sense in a world where there is virtually nothing that has no electrical current running through it that all the circuitry should be very heavily shielded from electromagnetic interference, and that includes EMP weapons.
Hot Wheels
One of the stories in "Into the shadows" had a mage who had the effect of casting an EMP and she just crippled the cyber on all sorts of people.
BIG BAD BEESTE
"Its All Done With Mirrors" by Michael A Stackpole. Her spell was one of several SOTA research projects she personally developed and kept when she left the megacorp cocoon. I believe it actually prevented the biological/cyber interfaces with side effect of causing acute pain in the targets (Health catagory) rather than creating an EMP (Manipulation catagory).

Ahh, the good old days...
Darkest Angel
For the spell, there is no point of origin for the EMP waves, they simply exist in an area - like a fireball creates fire within and throughout the area of effect enabling it to hit anyone even if they're out of sight. That being the case, EM shielding would be virtually useless since the pulse happens inside the shielding just as much as it occurs outside the shielding. For EMP weapons however, the pulse has an origin outside the shielding, so the EMP weapon would have little or no effect.
Siege
QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE)
"Its All Done With Mirrors" by Michael A Stackpole. Her spell was one of several SOTA research projects she personally developed and kept when she left the megacorp cocoon. I believe it actually prevented the biological/cyber interfaces with side effect of causing acute pain in the targets (Health catagory) rather than creating an EMP (Manipulation catagory).

Ahh, the good old days...

QUOTE (Nadia Mirin)
It deionizes the cybernetic neural interface conducting gel.  It makes communication between cybernetic equipment and the host impossible.


-Siege
John Campbell
QUOTE (Darkest Angel)
For the spell, there is no point of origin for the EMP waves, they simply exist in an area - like a fireball creates fire within and throughout the area of effect enabling it to hit anyone even if they're out of sight. That being the case, EM shielding would be virtually useless since the pulse happens inside the shielding just as much as it occurs outside the shielding. For EMP weapons however, the pulse has an origin outside the shielding, so the EMP weapon would have little or no effect.

You're mixing the benefits of elemental manipulations and regular area effect spells. There are no spells that gain both the benefits of blanketing an area regardless of cover from the center of effect, and of affecting areas outside line of sight.

Area-effect combat spells, like manaball and powerball, do not have a point of origin. Anything the caster can see that resides inside the radius of effect is affected. There could be a concrete wall between a target and the center of effect, and if the caster can see behind the wall, the target behind it will still be affected. On the other hand, someone within the radius of effect with no cover from the center of effect, but whom the caster cannot see, will not be affected. Armor does not protect against regular combat spells.

Area-effect elemental manipulations, on the other hand, do have a point of origin. The effect starts at the center of the radius of effect and radiates outwards to the limits of the effect zone. Barriers and suchlike between a target and the center of effect do provide cover, even if the caster can see the target, and the effect can hit areas that the caster cannot see, provided there's a clear path to the point of origin of the effect. Armor protects against elemental manipulations (only half Impact, but that's because of the nature of the damage, not the magical origin of the effect).

An EMP spell should be an elemental manipulation, and therefore should behave in the latter fashion. Shielding should work just fine, just as armor does.

Or you could just use Ball Lightning.
Darkest Angel
Armour only protects at half it's value against elemental manipulations, and I agree an EMP spell should be an elemental manipulation, hense how I described it in comparison to a fireball. I am aware of the LOS issues with all other spells, but given how I, and you would classify the spell I was just explaining how and why an EMP spell would work, but an EMP weapon system wouldn't.

Personally, I'd use Ball Lightning like anyone else anyway smile.gif
Lindt
Yep, cyberware, the non ferris, non conductive, EMP proof wonder of the 6th world. Can you imagine that bad crap that would happen to that guy with MBW when an EMP spell goes off? Actually it might feel pretty good, everything shutting down for a bit...
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