like I said this works with most maps I know. For example the two basic maps that where part of my very 1st Battletch Box. You do not need Hills, Woods are sometimes even better, buildings too and lvl 2+ Water even more so.

Edited: This is based on my gaming experience and asw such subjective and biased. If I am ever around where you live we should try this out.

Tactics to defuse the hit-and-run...

1. Stand at the map edge (risks a push, but he can't get behind you).
2. Put your back to level 3+ terrain.
3. Put your back against water (many jumpers have jets in their legs and all have to make a PSR if they want to jump into the water).
4. King of the hill.
5. Stand in a heavily forested area (they'll need to be right on top of you to hit you).
6. Don't move unless you have to (keeps your TNs low).
7. If you use the rules for it, smoke can protect your back as well as anything else.
8. Along the lines of #7, fire can take away some of your opponent's hiding spots.
9. Remember that he'll always have a +3 TN to hit you if he jumps.

Most hit-and-run players assume you'll move your mech each and every round, following them around like a puppy. If not that, they assume you'll sit there and let them hop about happily to their favorite spots. Just stay patient, pick a safe place to camp out, limit your opponents positions, torso twist to bring as many weapons as you can into play, and let your armor and weapons win the day.

5 is propably not going to work for you. Heavy woods would allow the BNC - S two move only 2 Hexes, while the WLV could jump 5 hexes - So in the event of not having the initiative, the WLV can get far enough away to loose LOS, while with the initiative it can jump right into the Back of the BNC.

4 is dangerous in inviting Charging attacks to your back which will not only result in direct damage but also in a lvl ( height of the hill ) falling damage ( which is substantial for a 95t mech ).

Smoke and fire work both ways.

2 and 3 will often leave you stationary without cover while allowing your oponnent to choose range and cover.

All of those tricks where used against my WLV - to no awail, I lost once when a Hunchback scored a direct hit on my head.

This is not to say they wont work - they just don't render hit and run tactics useless.

First, there is no range that a WVR-6M can be safe from or even comparable to a BNC-3S. At long, it's outgunned. At short, it's outgunned. Even eating +1 or +2 in additional cover mods for the WVR (assuming it can find cover that doesn't interfere with its own shot and it can jump 5 hexes to that cover) the BNC-3S will outgun it at every range. Not only is it outgunned, but it's outarmored, too.

Next, the BNC-3S doesn't have to move once it gets into heavy woods. That's the genius of not moving. You don't go up heat or TN and your opp either has to get right next to you or face serious TN mods.

You'll only face charges from the back if the WVR-6M can get to it in a single round - unlikely under the best of conditions - and he still has to hit.

The only time hit-and-run works for a medium against an assault is when the assault acts stupid or blind luck intervenes. I'm not saying that the first one doesn't happen a lot, because plenty of people absolutely hate the thought of not doing anything for their movement phase. The second can happen for either side at any time, so it's a wash.

I'm completely old-school when it comes to BTech. All about vet pilots driving Level 1 'mechs.

The WVR (Gah, I thought the Wyvern was WVR, but it's WVE. Been too long.) lacks sufficient mobility to go from complete cover to behind the back of the BNC within a single turn on most maps. Especially if the BNC pilot is paying attention and forcing some dead ground. It's a whole lot more difficult to do that repeatedly.

Also, there were three key factors that allowed my Jenner to do the damage it did:
1) Cover fire from a long-range Wyvern. Convinced that the heaviest 'mech posed the largest threat, my opponent did most of his maneuvering based upon the Wyvern.
2) It was a JR7-D. The one with, you know, ARMOR!!! Sorry, just a bias.
3) We were playing on canyon and mountain maps. The Jenner had easy access to dead zones that all along the approach path, and my opponent was bereft of jump capable 'mechs.

In a duel situation, the heavier 'mech would be much more confident about maneuvering solely against the jumping 'mech. Very rarely do I find maneuverability to be a huge edge in a duel when compared to raw survivability and firepower. In larger battles, my high-speed 'mechs become the crushing hammer, but they would be chewed to pieces without the pressure that slow, ponderous 'mechs apply across the front.

The only 55-ton 'mech I would consider taking in a duel against an asault 'mech is a homebrew 'mech I made with 5/8/5 motion, max armor, a PPC, SRM-4, brace of medium lasers and 15 heat sinks. Stays at outer range of his PPCs and moves from cover to cover. It might be able to stay alive long enough to close for a kill. Or it might be hammered to pieces from afar. I'm still only giving my baby 1:2 odds against a Steiner Banshee at best.

would anyone be interested in taking on a newb? for a mechwarrior 3rd edition game or newest equivelent.

The Wraith is another good one, it mobility make it a hard target, the pulse lasers make it easy to peg any targets it has while jumping.

Dont forget the Scarabus guys, fast little bugger with a Hatchet, can really make biger mechs cry when that comes swinging in, especially if its from one of the rumoured Triple Strength Moyemer variants. Charged a Long Range battery hill ( 1 Stalker, 2 Archers, 1 Bombardier) with mine, never got hit in the two turns of running towards the hill in open ground and then took the Stalkers head off before dashing off again.

oh and this shall scare you all for the Mini collections, my one time regular ally and oppenant can field a Full RCT plus support command company and artillery battery.

Or as we worked out a Supported Comguard division (Lev VI + two Lev III units + auxilarys)
nasty .

Well it looks like im the only Clanner here. Oh well.

Sorry but im not knowing IS unit size's that well. (4Mechs for a Lance, 3 Lance for a Company thats about it.) So im not knowing excatly how many Mechs your talking about.

Me I've got a 25 Mechs (mostly Light and Heavy)plus Elementals (Cluster?, It's been a while).
Oh and a Armorcast Mad Dog and Timber Wolf. Though the Timber Wolf is looking a bit like Prydes Mech at the minute due to a mate knocking it off the side.

Question though? LAM's, Pulse lasers??

My nightmare, piloting a Mad Dog B (Don't ask why. But I had a thing for them at the time) In a trial of position, Rnd 1 Nova D, Rnd 2 was a Mad Dog Prime i think, Rnd 3 Turkina Prime (Yes im a Falcon). The first mech i took apart like a surgeon (not that it was difficult mind) the second proved a bit tougher but i did it, and to see if i could, i took on the Turkina. There i was manouvering like i git, doing quite well, when i put myself in partial cover (I know I know, but the Tn's were 11 to hit me) He fired all his guns (don't blame him) only one weapon hit......

So thinking that i was just unlucky, at a later time we replayed it. Would you believe it? Almost the same DAMN thing happened, i say almost cos this time the Tn's were 12!

So no partial cover for me vs things with ER PPC's

Fav Mech, custom ShadowCat (ER PPC instead of Gauss) And Lanners.

Side Note: Whats wrong with the cover of "The battle of Coventry?"
Side Note 2: Coventry Being a city just north of were i live

Max armor for a 55-tonner is 185 (the WVR-6K carries 184), but the WVR-6M only has 168, IIRC. The WVR-6K is a very nice mech in its own right. It's armed just like the WVR-6M, but it adds a single small laser (yay!) and ups the armor to max. The BV is nice and low at 970, because it doesn't use JJs.

I'm a much bigger fan of the GRF-1S Griffin, due to the extra heat sinks (16 total) and LRMs. The WVR-6M is a great medium mech, don't get me wrong, but it runs too hot and it's too focused on close-up fighting for my tastes.

I could hardly be called a tourny player either, but not for lack of trying. Most of the players in my group never bothered to read the rules so I kept it as simple as possible to facilitate gameplay - most of the optional rules were never used. Needless to say there was also a scramble to play the "best" mechs ie. the clan ones, so I was generally the underdogs of the inner sphere. Because I usually had to play the Russians in most wargames I ever played, the formation of the 43rd was inevitable - it follows the modern Russian organization in its set up. The other favorite to play was Comstar. Mechs like the Lancelot and Black Knight compete rather favorably with their clan counterparts.

A favourite battle was one where a lance of three UM-60Ls with wiht their CN9-A leader took out an entire star of clan heavies on mainly forested terrrain (the clanners consisting of a Timberwolf prime, Hellbringer Prime, Glass Spider, Stormcrow A, and a Gargoyle B) Not of course without significant loss to themselves, but hey, it was fun to take those clanners down a peg.

Definitely not a tourny player here either. My friends and I love optional rules and we adopted each one with ferocity, not always making sure to get it right. We tend to play fast and loose with a lot of the details. Torso twisting and what not just gets assumed by all parties. And we usually find something we're doing against the rules ever 4-6 months. About once a year we decide to correct it.

I've only recently started using the MechWarrior system, and I think it adds a fair bit o' depth the pilots and therefore the game. It's kinda nice.

We're all discussing tactics for fictional technology, so grains of salt had better be standard issue.

I'm now home, and must offer my apologies, Gentlemen (and theoretical Ladies in the audience.) I did not design a jumping 55 ton 'mech. I designed a 45 ton 'mech and a 40 ton 'mech that were built to act in tandem. In my memory I confused their attributes into a single 55 ton 'mech. I remember this being the result of some number-munching that results in more actual useable space for a 45-ton 5/8/5 'mech than a 55-ton 5/8/5 'mech.

MNM-1X Minuteman (45 tons)
DNT-3S Dauntless (40 tons)

EDIT: MNM-1X has a BV of 977. DNT-3S has a BV of 753. I'm somewhat proud of that 977 result. Theoretically, the Minuteman should be an equal match to a ARC-2K Archer.

Hello again!

Well, thing is that, once my current Forgotten Realms campaign ends, I don't plan to run D&D for a looong time (call it burnout). I've talked with my players, and there is an initial consensus to try something new and different.

The two options I'm currently favoring are Battletech/Mechwarrior and Earthdawn. I'm also having warm feelings about the new Babylon 5 (yes, it's d20, but I keep hearing good things about that version and I loved that saga), and TriStat dX/BESM.

If I want fantasy, I want something that shies away from the oh-so-bloody-typical medieval fantasy (score one for ED). I also value rich, complex worlds with plenty of depth (score one for all of the above). Sci-Fi games that take characters to far away places get good marks in my notebook (score one for BT/MW and possibly B5), especially if the combat section is exciting (once again, score one for BT and B5... certainly not for D&D ). Flexibility is also good, as opposed to D&D's clunky class system (looks at TriStat dX/BESM). A certain anime feeling could be nice too, but not mandatory.

However, I don't have time for all of them, nor can I afford them all. I want to buy the core book (or books, since I think BT/MW needs two, right?) to begin with.


So...

...your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to sell me out on BT/MW.

Which core book do I need for BT?

Which core book do I need for MW?

What's good, what's bad?

Why should I play it?

How are the typical adventures and campaigns? (this one helps me sell it to my players )

Thanks to all those who answer this.

For BT: Battletech Master Rules Revised

For MW: Mechwarrior 3rd Edition

What's Good: typical FASA setting has incredible depth, giant robot fighting!

What's Bad: they don't make 'em like they used to, lots of people dislike the weapon ranges, not the most realistic systems out there

Why you should play it: if you like mecha combat (and based on your BESM leanings, I'd guess you do), you'll love BT/MW

Typical BT adventures/campaigns: Well, there's the rub. BT really focuses on wargame scenarios. So you don't play your characters, you play someone else's. Nowadays, you may not even know the names of the mechwarriors involved in any given scenario, you'll just know their mech, skill level, and maybe their rank. There is no story element, just lining up forces and going to town. Wargamers drool over this, but I find it boring. AFAIK, there are no PC-focused scenario books available.

Typical MW adventures/campaigns: I think that there might be one or two scenario books for MW, but I can't say for certain. As you might guess, this is a roleplaying game so it ditches the wargame element for (IMO) more interesting gameplay focused on the player's characters. However, the lack of material means a lot of work for the GM. Luckily, there's Solaris VII and I would highly recommend it as your setting for a MW game.

Recommendation: I highly recommend buying Heavy Metal Pro. It's a mech design program with all canon designs included. This contains not only the mech stats, but their fluff text, too. It may seem a little costly, but it's a LOT cheaper than buying all of the record sheet books and photocopying those every time you want a battle. It'll also let you design your own mechs.

Cray74 has also posted his alternate character generation for using ShadowRun rules for MW. An excellent idea, seeing as I never really used the MW rules for combining MW combat with BT combat (about the only major reason to use the MW rules).

If I get the chance this summer, I am going to give it a try. The best part is, using this method, you can do almost anything with the setting.

Link

Hope you don't mind me posting this in here Cray74. But you should hopefully get a lot of potential playtesters out of it.

Well, here are the core rules.

Rule expansions

Actually this may be more beneficial. It is the complete list of B-Tech products.

MW uses a slightly different method of mech combat. I think it's better, but others may gripe. BT is sort of MW-lite. BT is just a wargame and no more than that, so any RP element is going to require MW or a homebrew stat-less style of play.

You can get HMP here

Cray, do you have the SR MW conversion up on a website? I can't find it (at least not yet) on the classic battletech forums.

Well, we couldn't convince all of our party members to get into BT/MW...

Thanks anyway for your help, guys. We're now between Earthdawn, Babylon 5 d20, Tri Stat dX, Anime d20 or Blue Planet... Any other game I should take into consideration?

Play Blue Planet so you can tell me if its any good or not.

I keep hearing good things about it. I also keep hearing the rules might be a bit complex, *very* hard sci-fi.

Anyway, drone rigging, armed killer-whales and dolphins might be too fun to pass up.

Blue Planet looked interesting.

If you're not adverse to Gurps -- check out Transhuman space.

-Siege

@ Lodestar:

What, are you trying to use me as a guinea pig? At least pay for the research!

There is also Heavy Gear. Another future based, big robot game with its own rules set, based on Dream Pod 9's Silhouette core rules.

DP9 Home Page

Actually, DP9 has a few worlds using the Silhouette engine, and the new editions are dual stated with d20 as well.

Oh yeah, and DP9 is Canadian, so you know its all quality.