Regeneration is capable of healing Stun damage without issue. Regardless, the restriction placed on 'recovering' in the Survival skill is poorly written & leads to three viable interpretations.

1. This damage cannot be healed until the conditions are met
2. This damage cannot be healed by natural healing / rest until the conditions are met
3. This restriction has no effect

Please note - as I have stated before, the literal Rules as Written is the third, as the restriction is "you cannot recover the damage", not "you cannot recover from the damage". Thus, it is being used in the "Re-Acquire" or "Regain Possession Of" definition, rather than the "Healing" definition. And consequently, makes no fucking sense.

Because I am trying to solve it instead of whine it to the admin.

If it was frequency based, there 'should' be some reference to antivampire lighting used in buildings somewhere. Vampires can't have sins in most places, so laying traps for them is perfectly legal, and given our access to lighting technology reasonably cheap and easy. That this isn't listed as a weakness, and there is no reference to technology developed to make use of it, if it did exist, I have to assume it does not work. Its not that there is a reference to support my idea, but there is a complete lack of references to support yours. My second source, is I'm pretty sure Ancient History weighed in on this when I asked the same question, and indicated that there was some supernatural component to the effect as opposed to a straight frequency based cause.

double post

If I understand what you are saying, because there is no light (wavelenght wize and so on) weapons to hunt vampire, sunlight has something magical. But there is no magic in space (see Baground count). Unless the theory we spoke about in the thread, "The source of magic in SR ...", so it could be that raw mana is vehiculed by sunlight, and that same raw mana cannot be processes by VVHMH infected ?

I think it make sense, but I'm sure Muspellsheimr would prove me wrong.

I admit I was a little too vindicative before, but still I should not have been called a moron for that.

ask ancient history, as he was the writer which clarified this point for me. He didn't specify what the exact supernatural component of sunlight was, only that there was 'something'.
As far as my point goes, if there is no reference in a game system to a concept, there is a good chance said concept does not exist. There is no reference to any combination of EMR harming vampires, so there is a good chance it doesn't exist. Lasers would still hurt them, cause lasers will burn through pretty much anything, but vampires should be no more susceptable to them then anyone else, and it should impede their regeneration no more then any other type of injury created by a non allergen.

so are there any referances as to what happens to magic in the void other than it acting like a background count and making casting difficult?

1. magic items brought into the void?
2. spells caste while on earth but at an object in space?
3. perminent spells brought into the void and back to earth?
4. any interesting experiments such as putting a big mirror in space and using a telescope and the mirror to cast through space but with the caster and target on earth?

For what I think is that I don't think it works. But again Muspellsheimr would prove me wrong on that.

well I'm more after referances not opinions, but thanks anyway.

Well, the magical theory, by its very nature, has a leg up on the competition. It needn't be as fully explored, and cannot really be related to any real-life scenario. Regardless, I don't believe it to be the strongest case, since, as was previously stated by a few others, magic, in the Shadowrun system, doesn't just travel through the void of space.

Let's say instead that this magical field is projected from some sort of solar powered magical reaction in Earth's atmosphere. Sunlight hits some sort of astral barrier, most wavelengths pass though uninterrupted, but one or more are infused with some sort of magical property that affects Vampires. This means that the weakness cannot be reproduced by modern science or magic alone, and that some sort of hybrid device, which does not yet exist, but possibly could in the future, capable of focusing those specific wavelengths, through a magical field, could replicate the result. Such a device, however, would be very difficult to produce, and the cost to do so would be relatively high, no to mention that each unit would require a spell-caster to operate.

There is, however, one other plausible explanation I can come up with: a rather severe case of Vitamin D overload. Let's say Vampires, in their altered state, have an inability to process high quantities of Vitamin D (like most humans). Let us also say that Vampires have some sort of magical or meta-genetic quality that causes their bodies to produce unnecessarily high quantities of Vitamin D when exposed to unimpeded natural sunlight. Let us now say that their reaction to higher levels of Vitamin D is much more severe than that of a typical human, causing them quite a bit more pain and discomfort, and possibly also affecting their ability to live if exposed to it for excessive amounts of time.

Still, however, I stand by my previous statement:

Vampires are allergic to sunlight, but by which specific property of sunlight they are effected is unknown.

Until the point at which official material detailing the specifics of the allergy and what exactlys effects the reaction, all speculation on the matter is simply that: speculation.

1 and 3. Other than how BC affects magic items and spells, not that I know of.
2 and 4. No explicit direct references I can recall.

It's the UV light aspect of it. I'll try to dig up the book reference later. Overexposure of normal humans to UV light gives you sunburns and skin cancer, vampires and other Infected have less resistance to it.

Thank you verymuch !

Indeed, thank you for settling this dispute.

However, UV light as a weakness REALLY limits a Vampire's night-life venue as well. Any night club with black-lights, especially those used to charge glow-in-the-dark accessories, is going to aggravate that same allergy. Heat lamps for animals, mostly reptiles, also tend towards the UV spectrum, and considering how popular UV lighting and UV activated accents are in street cars, computers, etc. nowadays, I can only imaging that the UV light pollution of the future is going to be extreme. I'm sure many of these sources wouldn't be sufficient enough to really harm the Vampire, but still...

It's not a very friendly world for those with HMHVV out there.

Become a magician, suffer a minor focus addiction for having a continual Alleviate Allergy spell on you. it never increases because you resist with the same dice you resist drain with, and if you glitch or something, add edge!

Wow, I really stand corrected, I thought I had asked you about this previously, and you'd said it was some supernatural quality to the light. Guess I might have misread what you wrote, my bad.

My Post was questioning the effects of Radiation like Gamma Rays that have severe effect on normal human tissue. I was wondering how HMHVV are effected by high doses of RADS. Its amazing how the question about sunlight got in here and such heated debates . Thanks for all your comments.

Hmmm, sounds like it's time to add more UV lights to the good old evil lair. Except for the infected friendly wing of course.



Wouldn't high SPF body cream be more effective (and much cheaper)? Or even just face paint? Though your method would work...

Less pretty Imagine your vampire PC running around smeared constantly with the cream in the dead of winter.

Besides, this really only applies to Nosferatu and other breeds of infected who take damage in the sunlight, versus the lesser ones like regular vamps who just suffer penalties.

Fair enough. I can see where that would be a problem. I hadn't considered the affect on one's appearance. Personal grooming is important. After all, an unkempt vampire just can't pull off the Dracula look quite as well.

Still haven't bothered to look up the reference, but I was browsing through Runner's Companion and the Albinism quality says that albinos, because they are extremely susceptible to UV light, have the Allergy (Sunlight). Not exactly relevant but sort of parallel to the course. A couple hundred years ago people made glosses off flimsier material than that.

Remember, on 2070's most clubs will use AR instead of black-light. Black-light should be something really rare, except for niche night-clubs like:
Come see what people used to hear and dance 100 years ago: Come meet the Disco Clubs *A Bee Gees song starts playing*

The biggest place your going to find large amounts of UV lights is the Ork Underground. Orks can see in UV, but humans can't. Its a way of making "pinkies" feel unwelcome.

"pinkies" ? orks are green ?

Now what kind of UV arms them ... just kidding...

Threats? I seem to remember the Vampires section has mention of a modified Dzoo no Qua (is that spelt right) that goes up when UV is shined on it.

Pinkies are what orks used to call norms in the first few editions (IIRC).

I had the books in french back then

Orks have low-light vision, right? Does this mean they can see on UV? If it is, then Elves can see in UV too. (Or anyone who is willing to spend less than 5k for a good pair of cyber-eyes.

The logic is that Allergy(Peanut) is always peanuts
If Sunlight allergy for Albino is UVs then it's UVs for everyone.

IS that it ?

The reasoning here is that if Allergy (Sunlight) from Source A is because of ultraviolet light, then it is reasonable that maybe Allergy (Sunlight) from Source B is because of ultraviolet light - though not definite. As I said, I'm fairly sure there's a mention of it somewhere, I'm just too damn busy to dig it out at the moment.

OMG I never even mentioned anything about Sunlight and/or UV in my Post. What is wrong with you people that you can't get off this Are Vampires allergic to Sunlight or are they allergic to UV Radiation, Keep this up so help me I'm going to make vampires in my campaign SPARKLE!! You want that!!! No I didn't think so! so If someone wouldn't mind please answer my original post question. Thanks for all you comments..it was fun to read them all even know you strayed a bit from topic.

Except for extreme enviroment, which people are stil arguing, I think all the other questions were answered.

Well, I've always followed the concept that specific trumps general.

The rules for environmental survival are general rules for that. So are the healing rules within that section.

A specific power clearly states what it can and cannot do under different circumstances.

Thus, I'd go with Regeneration keeping the person/animal in question upright and functioning in extreme conditions. Things that would require specialized gear to have a chance at survival (ya know, like outer space, or dancing on the core of a nuclear reactor), I would have to say no unless they have some sort of reasonable protection (primarily due to the massive damage being inflicted at a greater rate than what can be healed via Regeneration).

But Regeneration stopping working because the vampire is too hot or cold?!? I'll hoist the bullshit flag on that one.

BTW, AFAIAC... It's sunlight that vampires have a problem with. Not moonlight. Not mood lights. Not UV Lamps (though the vamp might get a tan). Not IR lamps. Remember, Magic in SR works off belief. Thus many ancient traditions have become modern day 'fact' because everyone believs them. I do recall the books mentioning some vamps having a psychosomatic reaction to garlic and mirrors (because that's what the vamp believes).

So waving a UV flashlight at a vamp in any campiagn I run will get the vamp playing along (while giggling maniacally inside) until he can put you out of his misery.

So in your games anything with regeneration (Infected, shifters, etc) can wander around the Antarctic for the 3 months of night at with temperatures at -40 to -94°F (-40 to -70°C) in the nude indefinitely without taking damage?

Hoisting my own flag at that.

The rules used to be that thermo saw in InfraRed and Lowlight saw in UV. So different ends of the spectrum. So Elves and Trolls see in IR and Dwarfs and Orks in in UV.

Not sure if that is still the case, but I've always used it as a rule of thumb.

And to get this post back on track, the rules state that UV lights damage everyone if they are bright enough and exposed for a few minutes. (SR4A Pg 260) No notes on damaging vamps specifically so I say they are no more susceptible than anyone else.

Depends on its magic and body score. You'd have to assign a damage code to those temperatures, and determine if they exceed the regen abilities of the entity in question. If they don't, then the entity is likely just going to need to eat more to compensate for the large energy expenditure of being in a continual state of regenerating damage.

There are damage codes for that (pg 137 SR4A)

Tough (Desert, High Mountains) DV6
Extreme (Arctic, Antarctic) DV8

They are for tests every 24 hours and damage is stun. People are claiming that as it is over 24 hours a regenerating creature will have no problem keeping up with the damage. I think it overpowering for the points cost that Shifters and Infected pay. For example Insulating Pelt costs 5 BP and only gives +3 to survival rolls.

This is one of those cases where there does need to be an errata because the 2 rules are global rules and neither specifically says that the other does or does not apply.

Just think about i for a second. A vampire with a good body, 5, and a good magic, 5, is regenerating with 10 dice. That is 3 boxes of damage every 3 seconds, or 1 box a second. I don't see it being reasonable that 6 boxes of damage over the course of 24 hours could outstrip that. You might get them with eventual hunger and fatigue, but actual damage to vital structures is simply not going to happen.

I'm just thinking that the "can't heal" clause in the environmental damage description takes precedent. For example if the damage is cold damage, the tissue is frozen. Now healing the cell walls is no big deal, we both agree to that. My issue is that you can't heal frozen tissue until the ice is out of the way. Regeneration can't just create more body heat to thaw out the cells (or in the case of heat exposure to rehydrate them). The second that the regenerator gets his body temp up or gets shelter, then yes they can heal it.

Vampires are not animated dead, they have body heat and they need to keep it at normal human ranges to live. You get it up to high or to low and they will have issues. Less issues then a normal human, but at the extremes they should still worry about freezing solid.

(As a side note: Vamp in the desert. Does he need to drink more blood to stay hydrated and avoid the effects of the heat? Just wondering how you would handle it.)

Well, I don't know about SR1 or SR3, but SR 2 and 4 both say that Orks and Elves have Low-Light Vision and Dwarfs and Trolls have Thermosight.

Opps that was a mistype on my part. your right, Elves and orks have low light and Trolls and dwarfs have thermo.

Regeneration is fine. The problem comes in with Insulating Pelt being incredibly shitty, and the Survival rules not particularly well done. I don't care what you say - it does not take a nude child 2-3 days to freeze to death in an arctic blizzard.



Rough idea off the top of my head - damage is is Stun, based on the environmental level (similar to how it is now). Damage is resisted, with Body + half Impact + appropriate modifiers (Insulation in arctic environments, for example). If you make the Survival Threshold (based on the environmental level - 0,1,3,6 scale), you reduce the level by 1 for determining damage. Damage is applied every ~1 minute.

I agree on the damage not being extreme enough for the survival tests. I tend to do it every hour, but that is a house rule.

In the end pick a way of handling it and make it consistent seams to be the only way to go for this quagmire.

As for the Sunlight allergy. Although I have not yet thoroughly gone through Running Wild yet, there are no references in 4th to vampires being affected by the ultraviolet aspect of sunlight. Even more, it would not matter if there where.

Albinism, for example, grants an allergy to sunlight. It is a result of their increased sensitivity to ultraviolet light, but outside of sunlight, ultraviolet light does not mechanically affect them any differently from anyone else.


Also, do not spew "it should be common sense" bullshit. Common sense can vary depending on location, culture, & education, and often is not so common. Regardless of what precisely common sense is, it should not be necessary. If the allergen is to ultraviolet light, it should be Allergy (Ultraviolet Light), not Allergy (Sunlight), as the two are distinctly different (ultraviolet light includes sunlight [it is composed of ultraviolet light, among others]; sunlight does not include ultraviolet light [it does not include other frequencies of sunlight]).

Ok granted for the common sence bullshit. Game mechanic wise : When you Call a variable Allergy and put the description Sunlight into it and then say in an other description it is UV related. Then all that Variable description because UV oriented no mather what.

I would say that pnp games are jsut like computer games. Set a constant a way, then don't try to set it an other way. It's not common sense, it's computer literate sense.

I figure it would exfoilicate the frozen cells and replace them with new ones.
As for the desert. I'm not sure, I'd either go with they don't sweat and the regen helps maintain body temp 'somehow', or requiring them to seek out fluid supplements. I'm pretty sure they can't drink alcohol, but I can't remember if they can drink water. If not, that means they'd need like 12-16 liters of blood in a day, which is 4-5 dead people.....

Minute seems a bit harsh, as I would have a really low body of like 1-2, and no impact armor, but I'm pretty sure it would take more then 6-7 minutes in a hot desert to bake me and kill me.