Well then I don't want to be right!

Admitting you have a problem is the first step in the healing process.

There, there. It is not your fault you were born in the wrong country, it's your parents'.

That's what the USA gets for coming late to the War. Again. (At least in WWII, it was only "Fashionably Late" as opposed to WWI.).

The Battle of Dunkirk certainly showed their guts despite having everything working against them! And then there's the Resistance Fighters in France, a good number of whom were civilians that had no military training whatsoever.

And don't forget, a major part of WWI was fought on French Soil. For the entire war.

Now, French-Canadians, on the other hand... The Volunteers fought like few other Canucks (Which is saying something) due to the reputation that their counterparts back home were giving to the culture...

Wait are you saying France was late to the War in WW2?

Or are you saying America was late to the war.

France was late in realizing that WWII was happening. Of course, so was nearly everyone else for the most part.

The USA was late to the War. Guess they had to get all spit and shined up for the battle first. Got to look your best, you know.

Edit: Fixed my above post.

Everyone was late to realizing the War was happening, except maybe Poland. And only cause they got invaded first!

my Great Grandfather died in WWI
my Grandfather was a resistance fighter in Occupied France, during WWII.

The Vicchy government cut the knees out from under the Army, and DeGaulle ran nice and early and then 'returned' as a savior later. *spit* My grandfather had the option to escape to England with his pilot. (He was an Avionics mechanic) but he went back to Occupied France and worked for the Resistance instead.

That's especially funny when compared to the glorious resistance the Aussies, the Czechs, the Hollanders and especially the Danes showed.

Yeah, right, one of the largest is a nice way to put it.

>Germans in France
>Brutal occupying force
>compared to Germans in USSR

But they were hurrying, of course. Did the best they could do, never waiting for anyone to do the job for them.


Oh man, in before a ban for discussing politics.

For the record, I blame the Politicos for that issue, not the Soldiers.

Speaking of "Coming Late To The War", and to shift this back on-topic...

What exactly is the deal between Aztlan and... Amazonia? Is that where the war is going on in "War!"? And what other "Hot Spots" does the book talk about. If any.

There are one or two pages, don't remember exactly, talking about "war" hotspots. One of them is the infamous Auschwitz concentration camp, that is set up as a haunted place full of angry spirits guarding their magical treasure. It mentions something about southeast Asia and Africa if I recall correctly.

Check the alt.War project in Community Projects, we are discussing the amazonian military right now.

We're actually having a long argument right now about WHy the frak Aztlan goaded Amz into a war. What AZT hopes to get out of it, why Amz is throwing down, instead of trying for diplomacy.

It could use more voices.

Most of Europe had some very impressive Resistance Fighter groups.
France, Denmark, Poland, Czech are some notable examples.

I'm not sure you can really talk about Brutal Occupation and really compare to Russia. The Germans and the Russians committed atrocities against each other, as a general course.

But don't be little the French Resistance. They were effective.

Nothing like fighting for your home, and having a home field advantage against an invading force. And this is also where we get the name for the Molotov Cocktail, as Mr. Molotov was the People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs at the time when he "Exchanged" parts of Eastern Europe to Germany and the USSR without bothering to ask said parts of Eastern Europe if they'd like to be part of greater empires first or not.


There plenty of atrocities to go around everywhere, we just hear less of the other ones.


I don't belittle any Resistance Force. The French were particularly enthused in WWII, however, and it certainly showed.

And now, away from history, and on to War!.

Crap, I don't want to dive into another project without finishing Maracaibo first. >.<

And yet, here I go.

Hey, I'm still trying to finish a piece of fan fiction and write about Kraplakistan.

I've got Maracaibo, Caracas, the Auchwitz arc I'm considering calling "Work Will Set You Free" based on the culmination of the entire campaign, and a few freelance requests on the side.

That's not counting the two PbP's I'm participating in that want me there for the scenery porn. Or St. Louis.

OK, I give. Uncle!

Just very clear that I need to finish my damn projects.

I'm as bad as my roommate that I'm about to coerce into crafting together a DocWagon uniform for GenCon. If she actually finished and sold her projects, she'd be in the upper tax brackets.

...

I want a DocWagon Uniform now...

If I had the time and budget, I'd make a HRT uniform.

Right. They seem especially significant compared to, say, the partisan movement in Belarus Soviet Republic.

Right. I remember Russians hauling off 30 million German civilians off to death camps. But hey, it wasn't Holocaust, those were those damn Slavs and Middle Asians killed, who the hell cares about them. Besides, those barbarian Russkies raped three women in Germany, just think about it! That's what really important!

Effective enough for Jodl to ask "What, we lost to those, too?" apparently.

Molotov Cocktail is from the Finnish War times, actually, when Molotov claimed "soviet bombers delivered humanitarian aid to Finnish workers". But in what comes to being willing to be parts of other countries, I'd suggest you to look up who did the territories USSR struggled to control belong before the Finnish intervention in 1921.

You mean Transcaucasia (the country making the least sense in SR)? Or Turkestan?

Well, Amazonia discussion is just that - discussion. We're just trying to put some sense into the whole Amazonian situation, and the Am-Atz conflict, so that Brazilian_Shinobi may actually continue his work on Amazonia, with the logic behind it established and out of the way.

Really? Weird, I was misinformed then. By a Finn, no less.


No, I mean Kraplakistan. If I'm going to screw up a country, I'm going to do it for a place where the natives can't get pissed off at me.

Which means I can also do Canada, because, well, I might get a few harsh words and a hard glare. And my Timmies not served properly. The last one hurts the worst, BTW.

They even wrote a song about that. "Niet, Molotov!"

You could at least give it a cool name. Liiike Karakalpakistan, hinting at Karakalpaks!

I'd say this one's gone pretty far into talking about politics, by this point. It's not an atrocity contest, people. There was plenty of brave fighting during the Second World War, there was plenty of capitulation (by many countries), and there was plenty of innocent blood shed and other monstrous acts committed. Rehashing it here isn't going to settle, or change, any of it.

Hopefully prevent another one from happening.

...

Yeah, I can't see it either. Maybe I should take what Paul was medicated with.

Bah.
Okay, I beg your pardon for stirring it up in a way. Hope won't happen again.
I'm bit too touchy about the subject, it being a matter of blood and all.

Most Europeans are touchy on the subject.
I know I am

Uh, if it helps, I wasn't trying to claim the French were #1 in any of the things I mentioned, or trying to belittle any other nation involved in the war. I was just trying to point out that the "France is a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkey pussies" meme that's still so popular in the States today (revived due to France's refusal to participate in Iraq post 9/11) wasn't really based on many...facts.

Also, considering I said "occupying FORCE", rather than "occupation", I'd assumed people could figure out that I was talking about the Nazis as a whole, not just the Nazi occupation of France (which was hardly sunshine and puppies, even if their actions in the Soviet Union were markedly worse).

(It's actually tough to decide whether the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese were the more brutal occupiers of conquered lands in WWII, but let's stick to Europe and Eastern Europe)

Anyway, I'm sorry if I offended you. That wasn't my intent. I have great respect for the people of all the nations that opposed the Axis Powers during the war, those of the then-Soviet Union right near the top of the list.

Don't feel bad, France. Canada got snubbed before Iraq was even invaded.

Didn't even get a "Thank You" for the help given during 9/11.

Heck, I'm Canadian! No need to tell me about it.

(Not to mention another recurring meme/myth, about the 9/11 hijackers entering America through Canada's "lax border security". Uh, no, they had passports, they came in like most people visiting America do: by flying.)

Yeah, by 2001, the days of "Make them yourself" Canadian Passports were long over.

that one is easy .... get ahold of ghost cartels .... I jut finished playing it .... explains a lot

Nice to see they're sticking to their drug dealing roots.

Better late than never.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...sh-canada_x.htm

I'm not even going to get started...

I was actually playing the Ghost Cartel campaign when our GM had to stop it for six months to finish his master's degree. I don't know if we will continue later.
Anyway, the whole point is that it does not make sense making the center of the war Bogotá, also, it seems the whole war is being fought for a single city.

We had DocWagon uniforms for some NPCs in the Scramble a few years ago. I can ask the woman who made them how she got the logo on the hats and tactical vests, if that would help. Heck, she likes to make costumes and she likes Shadowrun; maybe she can make you a deal.

4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any innapropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions.

Just think about it.

This. Stupid stuff like "X totally weights up Y! - No, Y gave us every right to do X!!" is what turns history and the victims' memory into political (and TOS-violating) slugfests.

Ooh, happen to have images?

I'm curious to see how they were constructed so I have an idea of what I need to get. I've got costumers handy to get the logos, I just want to see the tac vests and hats.

Come to think of it, Shadowrun costumes should be easy enough to make, be they Docwagon or not: camo suits and armor vests are openly sold, as are doctor's smocks.
The electronics SR characters carry might require some creativity, but I believe electronics shops can easily supply you with badass-looking components, too.
The only thing you need then is emblems, and there's special printer paper that allows to transfer whatever's printed on it to cloth.

One of the crew I ran with at GenCon last year had a good S-K patch on her leather jacket. I'll ask her to see where she was snagging those.

Back in the 80ies, when there was a deficit of everything, my mom sewed me a coat with a rather large emblem on the back - it was made of a couple of layers of cloth (one per color, and one big round for background) sewn on there delicately, so that the seams wouldn't be visible. Well, if you don't want to go for the easy suggested variant :3

I watched a presentation the other day about brain scans and criminal law. There it was mentioned that they had checked juries as well as criminals, and found that some wants "eye for an eye" style punishments by instinct basically.

ah, yes. here we go: http://singularityhub.com/2011/01/29/the-c...eagleman-video/

On a personal scale, I have no issue with eye for an eye. On a global/political scale, though, crossing generational lines? That's when things get messy.

Punishing one man with the death penalty for unlawfully ending the life of another man makes perfect sense to me, for several reasons. But the "tit for tat" atrocity race between Germans and Russians didn't do anyone any good, and continuing to bicker about it 65+ years after the fact on a board where we're supposed to be talking about role playing games is, if not precisely counterproductive, at the very best off topic and as such pointless.

One more posting that's against the TOS and this thread's closed.

I can't find any, but I bet there's some floating around out there somewhere. Might be worth starting a new thread to get the attention of the shutterbugs.

Oh, I've just been writing on capital ship weaponry, and I needed to stat up a 250 mm gun for battlecruisers.
So I glanced upon the howitzer rules.
What the hell, CGL?! Every heavy weapon in the game until this book has been using the same range description, going like: "use assault cannon ranges, increase Extreme range to 3km". Howitzer gets its own table, with 30 (!!!) km being the max range. Okay, fine, let's let this slide for a moment, after all, there are howitzers like this in RL, no matter that there's nothing with comparable range in the system.
Now, I opened the howitzer shells table.
54P?! -10AP?! What the ever-loving god? Tank cannons do 17P! Cruise missiles - whole planes stuffed with explosives, - do 40 to 64! What is this, the Big Bertha? Judging by the howitzer's stats in the vehicle section, no, it's tank-sized (although somehow it got an extra-large sensor package and turrets with lazors only statted up as "missile defense system [stabby lazors hell yeah!]").
What the frag? What will a capital ship primary weapon damage codes look like, if a single goddamn howitzer does damage on THOR-shot scale? Oh, and that's without that "darling-I-broke-the-game" targeting system.