Full Version: How do you move your guns?
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| The best way to get the GM to stop destroying your vehicles? Start demanding compensation as part of your payment from the various Johnsons, even if it means a slightly lower pay than normal. Now, everytime the GM feels the need to trash your ride "just cause," he's the one who has to pay for it. |
Wouldn't that not be compensation? Wouldn't you want more money than normal to compensate for my Westwind turbo? Heh i doubt I could get even 1/5th of the cost. I'm just going to start jacking cars to take on runs.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| Games require no devotion to research to play. You show up, you play. Walking up to an arcade machine does not require a degree. You simply plop a quarter in and play. |
I find it rather hard to believe that you genuinely find more issues with Wounded Ronin's novel writing metaphor than paralleling any true roleplaying game (ie in which it involves actual roleplaying, which is, after all, the point) with an arcade twitch game.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| To you. Perhaps not to another group. I know many groups who, for example, could care less if the new woman to the group knows about magic when she wants to play a shaman. |
And those groups are find doing that, but everything I've said presupposes that the game is serious. None of this applies to the casual groups that treat Shadowrun as a computer game and don't really care about character and immersion. At this point, you've basically excised all roleplaying and turned it into a (rather dodgy) tactical sim, and you're welcome to do this all you like, but with no real roleplaying to speak of, my comments really aren't applicable. Moreover, none of this applies to a player too lazy to learn anything about the game, its world, or, god forbid, his or her character beforehand.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| Again not true. I can play Jedi and know absolutely nothing about the force's lore. All I need to know is that I get to roll this many die to do this thing to that guy. |
Notice that you are not roleplaying; you are rolling dice, and if that's what you want, go for it, but don't waste your time pretending it's a roleplaying game.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| That is entirely up to the player and not up to the GM at all in any way, shape, or form. |
I never said it was. This is about as insanely obvious as saying it's up to the player to play his character well or poorly. More to the point, Whether the person's a player or the GM has nothing to do with any of this, and at no point did I bring it up.
My opinion of people unwilling to do any research on their characters really has less to do with personal frustration than it does with the patently asinine and thoroughly ludicrous sentiment that no one should have to put any thought into their characters at all.
Your repeated statement that I "have a consistent pattern of making absolute statements of RPGing law based off of your personal feelings and decisions on the subject" is equally absurd. Reasonable limitations aside (this is all purely restricted to serious games and, despite what Funk would have you believe, is not a request that everyone read Summa Theologica before playing a Christian, or whatever), yeah, I have opinions. There is something very wrong in logic that does not see hypocrisy in a (vaguely ad hominem) argument that is essentially "you strongly state your position."
I think we're almost at a point of saying the same thing.
Sometimes, if you run a debate long enough, both sides meet up at the same point but in different ways.
Often times it's completely missed as their presentation of the same idea is so different that it appears to be in opposition to each side of the debate.
Your first few comments, in my opinion, were rather much like an absolute set of statements regarding role playing, and your first statement was so strong and in one direction that it really did come off as an absolute backed by personal distaste for a style of play.
There was no room for another form of play, other than researching your role, in your original post.
Hence, this is why Doc came down so hard right after it most likely.
As to my points.
Don't get me wrong. I role play and not roll play.
I wasn't bringing those points up because they are my personal likes in role playing games.
I was merely taking your extreme and opposing it with the other extreme to show that your comment of absolute style about how to properly play RPG's was not exactly true by any regard if one looked at the overall audiance.
By supplying the opposite extreme, I was not intending to negate yours.
Both of them together ecompass a vast plane of styles in between them that make up the overall audiance.
The only point was that if I bring up the extreme opposite, and we look at your extreme opposite of mine, then we see that yours nor mine are true as an absolute and that RPGing shoulds are actually entirely up to each and every group.
Now, I don't think that you consider any possibility other than this very thought, that being one which thinks that it's really up to each and every group.
I was simply pointing out the extreme opposite so that you could see that there were more possibles in the realm of roleplaying.
What we each hold as our perceptions and opinions of the different possibles of roleplaying (role vs roll for example) is, again, completely up to each of us and rightfully so.
To each of us, it's our game.
And it would be helpful to others in the future if you would state pieces of information, such as, that your comments "presupposes that the game is serious".
Without that comment, your original post comes off not as a presupposedness, but rather of absolute right.
For instance:
If I said the following without a disclaimer:
"Killing animals is wrong."
I would be gravely miss-understood by many and have to go much further into defending my viewpoint than if I had said:
"Presupposing that you have no need of their food value, killing animals is wrong."
Looking at it from where you are now saying that, in a serious game of roleplaying where players actually devote to acting out their roles in a serious effort, having a player who does not want to research their characters role is, as you put it, bothersome.
Sometimes, if you run a debate long enough, both sides meet up at the same point but in different ways.
Often times it's completely missed as their presentation of the same idea is so different that it appears to be in opposition to each side of the debate.
Your first few comments, in my opinion, were rather much like an absolute set of statements regarding role playing, and your first statement was so strong and in one direction that it really did come off as an absolute backed by personal distaste for a style of play.
There was no room for another form of play, other than researching your role, in your original post.
Hence, this is why Doc came down so hard right after it most likely.
As to my points.
Don't get me wrong. I role play and not roll play.
I wasn't bringing those points up because they are my personal likes in role playing games.
I was merely taking your extreme and opposing it with the other extreme to show that your comment of absolute style about how to properly play RPG's was not exactly true by any regard if one looked at the overall audiance.
By supplying the opposite extreme, I was not intending to negate yours.
Both of them together ecompass a vast plane of styles in between them that make up the overall audiance.
The only point was that if I bring up the extreme opposite, and we look at your extreme opposite of mine, then we see that yours nor mine are true as an absolute and that RPGing shoulds are actually entirely up to each and every group.
Now, I don't think that you consider any possibility other than this very thought, that being one which thinks that it's really up to each and every group.
I was simply pointing out the extreme opposite so that you could see that there were more possibles in the realm of roleplaying.
What we each hold as our perceptions and opinions of the different possibles of roleplaying (role vs roll for example) is, again, completely up to each of us and rightfully so.
To each of us, it's our game.
And it would be helpful to others in the future if you would state pieces of information, such as, that your comments "presupposes that the game is serious".
Without that comment, your original post comes off not as a presupposedness, but rather of absolute right.
For instance:
If I said the following without a disclaimer:
"Killing animals is wrong."
I would be gravely miss-understood by many and have to go much further into defending my viewpoint than if I had said:
"Presupposing that you have no need of their food value, killing animals is wrong."
Looking at it from where you are now saying that, in a serious game of roleplaying where players actually devote to acting out their roles in a serious effort, having a player who does not want to research their characters role is, as you put it, bothersome.
Any time I play a character, it is always based either on something I know about, a real person, or a pre-existing fictional character. That way, I always know how to portray that character right. 
*ducks*
*ducks*
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
| Any time I play a character, it is always based either on something I know about, a real person, or a pre-existing fictional character. That way, I always know how to portray that character right. *ducks* |
I'm exactly the same way. I happen to think that it's a really good way of going about it.
I don't totally disagree with Arethusa. I think a player should have a basic grasp of a character's abilities and limitations at the very least. I also think they should have a basic understanding of the ins-and-outs of the Sixth World as a whole. If that means I have to sit with them during chargen (which I do anyway) and explain certain things to make them clear, then so be it.
I simply object to the asinine comments like "...and have never driven a standard shift in my life, I have no place playing a street racer."
Basic knowledge of the game and of the setting is not even nearly in the same ballpark as crap like that. I don't care how much he tries to backpeddle and pretend he wasn't saying exactly what he was saying; that's just plain stupid.
Basic knowledge of the game and of the setting is not even nearly in the same ballpark as crap like that. I don't care how much he tries to backpeddle and pretend he wasn't saying exactly what he was saying; that's just plain stupid.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| Your first few comments, in my opinion, were rather much like an absolute set of statements regarding role playing, and your first statement was so strong and in one direction that it really did come off as an absolute backed by personal distaste for a style of play. There was no room for another form of play, other than researching your role, in your original post. |
In that case, that's entirely a misunderstanding and I apologize. I felt it was clear that my comments were not applicable to less than serious games both because it's something I've stated a few times here before (which, obviously, not everyone has read) and because I thought it was evident that what I was saying couldn't apply to a game in which roleplaying is not much of a concern. Didn't mean for it to be taken that way.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| Hence, this is why Doc came down so hard right after it most likely. |
Hoo, no way. That's just Doc Funk being Doc Funk. It's kind of his thing.
| QUOTE (Stumps) |
| To each of us, it's our game. |
While I don't entirely disagree and I do understand your sentiments, I think it is worth pointing out that there is validity in criticism (not, of course, that a movie critic's going to stop being from loving Bad Boys 2, or whatever).
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| I simply object to the asinine comments like "...and have never driven a standard shift in my life, I have no place playing a street racer." Basic knowledge of the game and of the setting is not even nearly in the same ballpark as crap like that. I don't care how much he tries to backpeddle and pretend he wasn't saying exactly what he was saying; that's just plain stupid. |
This reminds me of a fun conversation I had with a friend of mine a few months ago:
"I wonder if Doc Funk is like that in real li—."
"NO."
"What makes you so cer—?"
"BECAUSE HE ISN'T DEAD."
Not backpeddling, straw man. Apparently it's not stupid enough for you to actually come up with any actual arguments, but hey, you've got time.
Three things.
1) Is that insult supposed to make any sense whatsoever? And are you really so sad and lonely that you have to talk about people from a message board during your free time? That's beyond sad.
2) Make a reality check sometime. If you're going to say idiotic stuff like the aforementioned "...and have never driven a standard shift in my life, I have no place playing a street racer," don't be surprised when several people (and not just one) calls you on it.
3) Boohoo. Little Mr. Raygun-wannabe-but-neverwillbe and his little friend doesn't like me. Sob, sob. I guess I'll have to cry myself to sleep tonight.
1) Is that insult supposed to make any sense whatsoever? And are you really so sad and lonely that you have to talk about people from a message board during your free time? That's beyond sad.
2) Make a reality check sometime. If you're going to say idiotic stuff like the aforementioned "...and have never driven a standard shift in my life, I have no place playing a street racer," don't be surprised when several people (and not just one) calls you on it.
3) Boohoo. Little Mr. Raygun-wannabe-but-neverwillbe and his little friend doesn't like me. Sob, sob. I guess I'll have to cry myself to sleep tonight.
| QUOTE (Solstice) |
| Blistering yet logically sterile rebuttal. Might I reccomend: Logical Fallacies |
Right, and it was a rebuttal to a thoroughly logical statement.
"I wonder if Doc Funk is like that in real li—."
"NO."
"What makes you so cer—?"
"BECAUSE HE ISN'T DEAD."
What the hell is it supposed to even mean?
| QUOTE (Solstice) |
| Blistering yet logically sterile rebuttal. Might I reccomend: Logical Fallacies |
Punk, you're infringing on the copyright in the link in my .sig!
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| What the hell is it supposed to even mean? |
On the off-chance that you are seriously asking this, I believe it could be translated as "If Doc acts in real life like he does on Dumpshock, someone would have killed him already".
| QUOTE |
| Hoo, no way. That's just Doc Funk being Doc Funk. It's kind of his thing. |
You know...the only time I see Doc-Fu doing "his thing" is when someone says something that doesn't make sense.
Though blunt, I have consistantly agreed with his points, no matter how he puts it in flavor.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| And are you really so sad and lonely that you have to talk about people from a message board during your free time? That's beyond sad. |
Hey, some of us are
~J
Doc Funk has Wired III and Killing Hands D. This works because he's a 30th level initiate.
So, like, he offends people, but then punches them to death before they can shoot him in rage.
So, like, he offends people, but then punches them to death before they can shoot him in rage.
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
| Doc Funk has Wired III and Killing Hands D. This works because he's a 30th level initiate. So, like, he offends people, but then punches them to death before they can shoot him in rage. |
No wonder. That makes sense now.
| QUOTE (DOTSW p181) |
| When a dragon with cyberware or bioware is in a stressful situation, ... the dragon experiences a brief regression to a feral, primal state. The dragon is ... incapable of rational thought or action. |
Must be all that Cyberware.
Somebody upthread said that I shouldn't play a street sam if I don't know the difference between an SMG and an assault rifle. I've never picked up either one. I have not the first clue what the technical, real-world difference is between them. But I know damned well what the difference is from the perspective of my street sam. The SMG uses SMG ammo, is more concealable, and has less range. It's fired using the SMG skill. The assault rifle has more range, uses assault rifle ammo, is hard to conceal, and has more range. It's fired with the assault rifle skill. It's also more likely to have full auto mode, though I can find SMGs that also have full auto mode, and to have such goodies as an underbarrel grenade launcher.
The way we handle reloading in our game is to assume that any time there's 'down time' all that stuff gets handled. So when you start a new run your guns are full, clean, and all that jazz. During a run, we rarely seem to run out of ammo, except for the sniper. When we do, we tend to switch weapons rather than reload. Of course, our campaign is such that we spend a lot of our time in relatively wild areas where we carry multiple weapons openly.
The way we handle reloading in our game is to assume that any time there's 'down time' all that stuff gets handled. So when you start a new run your guns are full, clean, and all that jazz. During a run, we rarely seem to run out of ammo, except for the sniper. When we do, we tend to switch weapons rather than reload. Of course, our campaign is such that we spend a lot of our time in relatively wild areas where we carry multiple weapons openly.
But even with that assumption, you're still screwed if you didn't add enough magazines for 5 nuyen each to your inventory.
Actualy, a SMG uses pistol ammo.
The point isn't that you have to have this knowledge if you want to play a gunbunny it is that this knowledge helps you portray the character more accuratly.
In a pinch, it also helps with rules-lawyering and stupid debates about Troll Skulls.
On another level, however, it is important to understand how the game world works as opposed to how the games works. The later without the former is rolling dice, not roleplaying.
When pretending to be a ninja as a child I did all of the ninja research that I could and even owned a ninja costum to go along with my array of plastic ninja weapons. The information I obtained often came from video games and movies and was terribly inaccurate in most respects, but it did provide a consistant structure to my fantasy worlds and I enjoyed learning about ninjas.
If you are going to play a character, you have to understand that character's everyday life, even if only on a superficial level. If you don't, then you will not be able to portray that charater in every situation. It doesn't even matter if your understanding is accurate so long as it is consistant with the fictional world in which your character exists
The point isn't that you have to have this knowledge if you want to play a gunbunny it is that this knowledge helps you portray the character more accuratly.
In a pinch, it also helps with rules-lawyering and stupid debates about Troll Skulls.
On another level, however, it is important to understand how the game world works as opposed to how the games works. The later without the former is rolling dice, not roleplaying.
When pretending to be a ninja as a child I did all of the ninja research that I could and even owned a ninja costum to go along with my array of plastic ninja weapons. The information I obtained often came from video games and movies and was terribly inaccurate in most respects, but it did provide a consistant structure to my fantasy worlds and I enjoyed learning about ninjas.
If you are going to play a character, you have to understand that character's everyday life, even if only on a superficial level. If you don't, then you will not be able to portray that charater in every situation. It doesn't even matter if your understanding is accurate so long as it is consistant with the fictional world in which your character exists
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Actualy, a SMG uses pistol ammo. |
Nope. A SMG uses SMG Ammo, we are talking about Shadowrun, not RL. You don't have to know squat about guns, cars, or elves to play a Elven Street Sam with an Uzi III and a Eurocar. Hey, it's nice if you do, but you don't have to.
If that was the rule then no one would be playing, Riggers, Deckers, Elves, Trolls, Dwarves, mages, or vampires. It is an asinine thought that they should.
| QUOTE (BitBasher) | ||
Punk, you're infringing on the copyright in the link in my .sig! |
That was total coincidence.
I promise....please don't hurt me. 
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| If that was the rule then no one would be playing, Riggers, Deckers, Elves, Trolls, Dwarves, mages, or vampires. It is an asinine thought that they should. |
I know a guy who is an elf. He does archery and fencing, has long blond hair that requires a headband, and has prominent ears. Furthermore, he's tall and lanky.
That's an elf if I ever saw one.
And, accordingly, he often plays elves in RPGs.
Yeah, but that doesn't disqualify him from playing orks.
But that's just it. If he always played Orcs from an Elven perspective, because he couldn't be bothered to read up on what Orcs are actually like and their problems and general way of life in the Sixth World, it would be a problem.
We (me and everyone who agrees with me
) are not advocating going on a shooting spree to research how your street sam would act while doing fire-and-move maneuvers. Merely that a little research into things like the Sixth World (especially where he is from), and maybe common tactics never hurts when portraying that character.
We (me and everyone who agrees with me
) are not advocating going on a shooting spree to research how your street sam would act while doing fire-and-move maneuvers. Merely that a little research into things like the Sixth World (especially where he is from), and maybe common tactics never hurts when portraying that character.
Actually one person in this thread, the very person Wish was referring to when writing his post, said otherwise. I'm not going to bother quoting his comments again, though... but it's those comments that are the main ones being objected to.
So, to paraphrase Fortune, know the game and the game world but tailor your realism requirements to fit the group at hand.
-Siege
-Siege
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Nov 30 2004, 11:27 PM) |
| Guess what. I don't know a damn thing about firearm safety or maintenance. Ditto when it comes to vehicle maintenance (I couldn't tell you the difference between a carborator and an air filter, let alone point them out if you opened the hood). |
I'm 1 for 2 on those. I can check fluid levels in my car and that's it, a funny light goes on, I go to the garage.
Firearms? Yep, those I know.
and you're right, it doesn't matter to play a GAME. In fact it makes it easier for a game if you know a little something but if my character has ground vehicals B/R 5 she can happily climb under the hood and fix stuff. Me, not, That's why I, in rl have a tripple A card and cell phone.
As to the people who say "My mercinary wouldn't forget to reload" guess what, batcha in the mad scramble he would. The action on my RL Barretta is so easy that when target shooting I don't notice the action locking open when I've finished a magazine. The "pull trigger no bang" lets me know it's done but there's not extra kick. I could see someone in a similar situation not realizing they'd emptied hte gun and in the rush, bringing up the empty barrell, especially since smg's and assault rifles don't have the big chunk of their barrell locked back when empty the way a hand gun does.
Eh - you like details on storing and carrying guns, Doc Funk likes the concept of SotA rules on skill atrophy.
It's all a matter of perspective.
On a side note - have you ever gotten the skin between thumb and finger caught as your Beretta's slide locks back?
-Siege
It's all a matter of perspective.
On a side note - have you ever gotten the skin between thumb and finger caught as your Beretta's slide locks back?
-Siege
No, "Doc Funk" likes the idea of skill atrophy and thinks the SOTA rules would be a good place to start for creating a ruleset for them. Big difference.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| No, "Doc Funk" likes the idea of skill atrophy and thinks the SOTA rules would be a good place to start for creating a ruleset for them. Big difference. |
Ahhh, I apologize for the imprecision of my post.
-Siege
Once upon a time, Mr Drain Brain logged on to his favourite place on the world wide web, the Dumpshock Forums. When there, he found a neat little thread entitled "How do you move your guns?"
After reading and replying, he noted that the thread grew. He read the first four pages (that's all there was at the time). Then, sadly, "other worldly" things (like the missus, and bills) conspired to remove him.
By the time he returned, he was happy to see that the thread now had a wopping EIGHT PAGES! Dutifully, and with salivation, he set about reading the next four...
By the end of it, however, he had a great big sodding headache because the supposedly "nice accepting community" of roleplayers that he thought he was a part of couldn't keep it in their pants and stop bickering like schoolchildren...
Ouch.
To use a nice cliche:
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Therefore, let me propose this:
Nasty closedminded twats who think roleplaying is the spawn-of-satan-makes-children-stab-each-other evil thingy = THE ENEMY
Therefore, we should all be friends. Debate = good. Bickering = silly.
How do we move our guns? Simple, we ask Ray to do it for us... I'm sure he must have fun, gun-guru ways of doing it...
Gee, I wish I was the guru of something...
After reading and replying, he noted that the thread grew. He read the first four pages (that's all there was at the time). Then, sadly, "other worldly" things (like the missus, and bills) conspired to remove him.
By the time he returned, he was happy to see that the thread now had a wopping EIGHT PAGES! Dutifully, and with salivation, he set about reading the next four...
By the end of it, however, he had a great big sodding headache because the supposedly "nice accepting community" of roleplayers that he thought he was a part of couldn't keep it in their pants and stop bickering like schoolchildren...
Ouch.
To use a nice cliche:
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Therefore, let me propose this:
Nasty closedminded twats who think roleplaying is the spawn-of-satan-makes-children-stab-each-other evil thingy = THE ENEMY
Therefore, we should all be friends. Debate = good. Bickering = silly.
How do we move our guns? Simple, we ask Ray to do it for us... I'm sure he must have fun, gun-guru ways of doing it...
Gee, I wish I was the guru of something...
No. I've never had my hand caught in the slide of the berreta but I've had a few close calls with my enfiled, and have seen people cut themselves badly on the flints of muskets.
A few years ago Puff Daddy/P Diffyy/Sean Combs was involved in a sdhooting in a NY club. In his get away caddy he had had built a hidy hole to drop guns into. unfortunely for him, he was so flustered that he forgot how to open the secret chamber.
A few years ago Puff Daddy/P Diffyy/Sean Combs was involved in a sdhooting in a NY club. In his get away caddy he had had built a hidy hole to drop guns into. unfortunely for him, he was so flustered that he forgot how to open the secret chamber.
Gods... pick a profession, dude! Criminal or musician (cough), doesn't matter... but pick one and do it well!
Good plan though... it'd be a swine to do that in a stock car - open the door at the stuffer shack and four "gats" (that's the rap music term still, isn't it?) fall out of the door pocket... oops!
Good plan though... it'd be a swine to do that in a stock car - open the door at the stuffer shack and four "gats" (that's the rap music term still, isn't it?) fall out of the door pocket... oops!
You forgot fashion designer and music producer for others. It was one of his protogies, Shine Barrow who took the wrap for the shooting and is doing 10-15 inside.
I guess the lesson here is for your SR character to not let P. Diddy move your guns.
I can't believe he had a secret gun hole but he never practiced with it. If I had one I'd practice with it a lot precisely so I wouldn't fumble at an important time.
P.S. - 9mm sucks.
P.S. - 9mm sucks.
My berretta is .380, not 9mm.
A lot of people seem to badmouth the 9mm, but I've got some 9mm +P Gold Dot hollow points that can ruin a person's day really quick...
| QUOTE (Shrapnel) |
| A lot of people seem to badmouth the 9mm, but I've got some 9mm +P Gold Dot hollow points that can ruin a person's day really quick... |
I've got some Speer Gold Dot .40 that will statistically ruin it in less shots
I love those things.
Your .40 might take less shots, but my 9mm holds more... They're about even, when you think about it...
That means that when I go and learn the ninja art of shadow replication and attack you en masse, you'll already be prepared.
| QUOTE (BitBasher) | ||
I've got some Speer Gold Dot .40 that will statistically ruin it in less shots I love those things. |
They'll both do the trick if you can do yours.
Personally, I favor at least a 200 grain bullet @ 950 fps. I don't really care what cartridge or which bullet. .40 S&W will just baaaarely pull that off (at 34k psi! yikes!), so it's pretty much 10mm or .45 ACP for me. I am partial to a .45 Hornady XTP over 7 grains of Unique.
| QUOTE (Schrapnel) |
| Your .40 might take less shots, but my 9mm holds more... They're about even, when you think about it... |
If you can't do it inside of 8 rounds, you're doing it all kinds of wrong.
Now we've done it! The argument over fast, small bullets, vs big, slow ones is a neverending debate.
And that's why my hand cannon is chambered in 88mm Kwk 36. I guess that puts me in the 'large, slow' projectile camp 
One thing worth mentioning is how long it takes to take apart and put together different weapons, in case you had them broken down for concealment.
A base time of 5 minutes to re-assemble or break down with a (related skill) test at TN 4 to reduce the time sound about right for a rule of thumb?
One thing worth mentioning is how long it takes to take apart and put together different weapons, in case you had them broken down for concealment.
A base time of 5 minutes to re-assemble or break down with a (related skill) test at TN 4 to reduce the time sound about right for a rule of thumb?
Possible side track, hopefully not. Anyway, That action/comedy cop flick with Deniro and Eddie Murphy was on TBS the other day, "Showtime" i think it was called. Anyway, the baddies had some sorta big frickin rapidfire cannon in that. What was that? Essentially a slug throwing autoshotgun with movie bells and whistles slapped on it?
While we're at it, what was that multi-barreled grenade launcher type thing in the Dogs of War movie?
| QUOTE (Raygun) |
| Personally, I favor at least a 200 grain bullet @ 950 fps. I don't really care what cartridge or which bullet. .40 S&W will just baaaarely pull that off (at 34k psi! yikes!), so it's pretty much 10mm or .45 ACP for me. I am partial to a .45 Hornady XTP over 7 grains of Unique. |
Wow man, you're a lot cooler than me if you think the 10mm is a viable option, I thought the recoil on that was just horrible. .45 ACP was just fine however. The rounds I load at home are 165 grain at about 1270fps. WHile I'm at it, I get more than 8 shots either way... 13+1 in the full size and 12+1 in the the compact @.40.
Honestly, I just don't think you can ever have too much ammo in the clip. Within reason it's better to have it and not to need it than to need it and not to have it!
Hey, while we're talking about ammunition, I guess I should ask a question that has been tormenting me lately.
What should be the damage code on 8mm Nambu? Should it take the big drop down to L?
What should be the damage code on 8mm Nambu? Should it take the big drop down to L?
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| Possible side track, hopefully not. Anyway, That action/comedy cop flick with Deniro and Eddie Murphy was on TBS the other day, "Showtime" i think it was called. Anyway, the baddies had some sorta big frickin rapidfire cannon in that. What was that? Essentially a slug throwing autoshotgun with movie bells and whistles slapped on it? |
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| While we're at it, what was that multi-barreled grenade launcher type thing in the Dogs of War movie? |
Never saw it, unfortunately.
| QUOTE (Bit Basher) |
| Wow man, you're a lot cooler than me if you think the 10mm is a viable option, I thought the recoil on that was just horrible. .45 ACP was just fine however. The rounds I load at home are 165 grain at about 1270fps. |
I guess it depends on what gun you were using and how hot the ammo was. Norma makes some pretty hot 10mm loads (200 grains @ 1200 fps!), and if you put anything like that through a Glock 20, I can see how you might be discouraged.
But a 200 grain @ 950 fps through a EAA Witness doesn't recoil any more than a slightly souped-up .45 ACP load through a 1911. It does give a significant muzzle blast (firing at almost twice the pressure of the .45 ACP), though not significantly more than a 180 grain .40 S&W load.
In any case, a guy who's pumping out 165 grains @ 1270 fps (well into +P territory!) shouldn't need to mama kiss his boo-boos.
| QUOTE |
| Honestly, I just don't think you can ever have too much ammo in the clip. Within reason it's better to have it and not to need it than to need it and not to have it! |
True. I was just giving him some shit.
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