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Draco18s
QUOTE (Cardul @ Dec 27 2009, 07:35 AM) *
Strangely, that is why I pretty much abandoned The Other Game. Heck, I can use Shadowrun rules perfectly
well for a High Fantasy game if I want, and it works..(drop Bioware, say the "essence" cost of things is their
leeching off your life force, and have magical implants that match many of the Cyberware stats). I run and
play a lot of other games, but, really, I do not touch The Other Game anymore.


I don't touch it either any more. And if I do it'll be 3.5 where I don't have a cookie cutter character.
(Said character in previous post was a paladin who used a lance on a charging mount, so he did something like x8 damage, which everyone agrees is broken, but he wasn't the only person doing crazy things).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
I don't know... I have a campaign using the rules for the Game that causes cancer (3.5) modified by the Magic rules in Black Company... this game has been running for over 20 years and is in its 4th iteration of characters, spanning almost 200 years of history in the game world... it can work wonderfully if you take the time to make it work...

Anyway...I play shadowrun for the fusion of magic and technology, and have never lost that loving feeling.....

Keep the Faith
ker'ion
What version did the game start in?
Stahlseele
Shadowrun started, like most things, with Version1 O.o
Draco18s
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 27 2009, 07:20 PM) *
Shadowrun started, like most things, with Version1 O.o


I don't think that's the question

QUOTE (ker'ion @ Dec 27 2009, 06:40 PM) *
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Dec 27 2009, 02:21 PM) *

...this game has been running for over 20 years...


What version did the game start in?

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Dec 27 2009, 04:40 PM) *
What version did the game start in?


2nd Editiom AD&D... through the various incarnations of 2nd (skills and Powers, 2.5, etc) then to 3rd Edition, then 3.5, at which point I scrapped the magic system and most classes for the classes and magic system of Black Company... it has never run smoother...

Keep the Faith
pbangarth
Much of what has already been said about Shadowrun in this thread applies to me -- relationship to the world in which I live, great mix of magic and technology, hope and despair, infinite character variability. No other game system comes close for me.

The best campaign and role-playing experience I ever had was in that Other Game, 2nd Ed. AD&D. The DM was my wife (then) and an award winning author (still is) who inherited and wove a geography and cultural structure I had built earlier into an epic of inter-dimensional proportions. Mythology, global war, ineffable evil, gut-busting humour ... it was all there. A wonderfully complex story in which the PCs could grow and emote and fail and win, and die if they were stupid. There were times I was my PC.

It didn't hurt that the other players were five young women. I really looked forward to the game sessions. After it was over, and the final climax sank in, there just was no point in ever playing that game again. Thank God we still had Shadowrun.
Draco18s
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Dec 29 2009, 01:24 PM) *
The best campaign and role-playing experience I ever had was in that Other Game, 2nd Ed. AD&D. The DM was my wife (then) and an award winning author (still is) who inherited and wove a geography and cultural structure I had built earlier into an epic of inter-dimensional proportions. Mythology, global war, ineffable evil, gut-busting humour ... it was all there. A wonderfully complex story in which the PCs could grow and emote and fail and win, and die if they were stupid. There were times I was my PC.


Reminds me of our Lost GM. He build his own Other Game universe, complete with not 1, but 2 additional magic types (IIRC they were arcane subtypes and PC casters could learn the spells given training) and localized economy (the Potion Capital of the Word sold potions at like 1/3rd book price, though the "discount" depended on the type of item, spell level, and a few other things). He even had his own monsters (one was a giant sand worm that beat the crap ou tof 4 level 15 NPCs before the level 5 PCs brought it down--though mostly due to attrition and the (dead) bard having made our BAB +15).

Unfortunately, Life Happens and our Lost GM is under house arrest in another state (something to do with an FBI investigation). Well, first he went away because he needed major surgery on his vocal cords (again) and then got a job (as he was going on co-op--where he got the nickname Silent Pete and repossessed peoples' cars in the middle of the night), and then got confined to the state by the FBI.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Dec 29 2009, 11:49 AM) *
Reminds me of our Lost GM. He build his own Other Game universe, complete with not 1, but 2 additional magic types (IIRC they were arcane subtypes and PC casters could learn the spells given training) and localized economy (the Potion Capital of the Word sold potions at like 1/3rd book price, though the "discount" depended on the type of item, spell level, and a few other things). He even had his own monsters (one was a giant sand worm that beat the crap ou tof 4 level 15 NPCs before the level 5 PCs brought it down--though mostly due to attrition and the (dead) bard having made our BAB +15).

Unfortunately, Life Happens and our Lost GM is under house arrest in another state (something to do with an FBI investigation). Well, first he went away because he needed major surgery on his vocal cords (again) and then got a job (as he was going on co-op--where he got the nickname Silent Pete and repossessed peoples' cars in the middle of the night), and then got confined to the state by the FBI.



Ouch...

Keep the Faith
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Dec 29 2009, 07:47 PM) *
Ouch...

Keep the Faith


Well, hey, at least he'll have great material for Shadowrun, right?
Wolfshade
The thing I ejnoy about (not just) this game is the many different people you find sitting together at one table playing a game. If not for the game they would probably not even know the other s existed. Sitting at a table for a group I was in for years was a Lawyer, a Teacher, a Lab Technician, a Mechanic, two young people that were still in Retail hell, a Park Ranger and a Waitress. All still good friends, but the group was a victem of life.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 29 2009, 06:09 PM) *
Well, hey, at least he'll have great material for Shadowrun, right?


Indeed...

keep the Faith
Draco18s
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 29 2009, 08:09 PM) *
Well, hey, at least he'll have great material for Shadowrun, right?


Oh man. I bet he'd run a killer ShadowRun game. Did I mention that he made a non-euclidean maze?

No, I guess I didn't.

He made a non-euclidean maze.

Of course, if he ran ShadowRun it wouldn't be ShadowRun. It'd probably be more like Mission Impossible meets The Italian Job meets a real job meets High Fantasy* meets Sliders.

Like. Scoping out the target, coming up with ingenious solutions to complex problems** with a bit of magic, technomancy, and pan-dimensional dragon lairs full of phat loots.

*Two books I'm going to reference, and for different reasons.
1) Dragoncharm by Graham Edwards, for the ungodly cruel and yet wickedly awesome magical traps. You have no freaking idea how cruel some of them were. Lines of fire lacing a tunnel designed to clip a dragon's wings. Magical barrier that had a series of ~20 magical traps that needed to be disarmed consecutively without failure before the wall itself could even be touched (and failing to disarm the trap turned you into a corpse one way or another). The last trap was the most cruel of all. It did nothing...but in order to get past it and bring down the wall you had to sacrifice yourself, body mind and soul. Even more cruel were the purple dragons.***
2) Dragon Champion by EE Knight for NooMoahk and his cave of awesome wondrous treasures, most of which serve no purpose except to be awesomely and wondrously hoarded (and like 400+ years old from the previous human empire, and some even older than that dating back to a Blighter empire which no one alive even realizes it existed--given that Blighters are more or less Neanderthals). Not to mention his unique take on elves, dwarves, and dragons (dragons being the main character species). Dwarves are very merchantile, industrial, and mercenary. Elves turn into fucking trees when they "die" hence having this nature-loving attitude, but still having a vast diversity of personalities.

**styrofoam cooler beats heat sensor FTW.

***I want to create a magical group in SR based on these guys. They take Blood Magic to the next level. Their sacrifice victims are voluntary members of the group who undergo ritual torture (different ever time) to the point of death, their soul is captured, bound, and used as part of a statue in the likeness of the individual, which fuels the group's magical strength (in SR terms it would act as 1 force of Magical Lodge materials as well as increasing the background count in the group's favor). They also made their own scales purple in color (all dragons could magically alter their looks as they saw fit) to denote their membership. Due to their practices they were shunned by everyone else, and traitors were "branded" by having their scales forcibly turned purple (which they themselves couldn't undo).
Wounded Ronin
If he's under house arrest, can he run internet games, or simply have the players come to his house?

EDIT: Hey, maybe the FBI agents tasked with keeping track of him can play. He could even run that old tournament game where the players are FBI agents.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 30 2009, 07:00 PM) *
If he's under house arrest, can he run internet games, or simply have the players come to his house?


I suppose he could run net games, but its not feasible for us to drive 400 miles to his house (I don't remember what state he lives in, but its not New Jersey (10 minutes) or Delaware (an hour)).
Omenowl
Sometimes the games get weary either do to all the interactions, planning, etc. It has become a real world, but so real it feels like a job. I think the best thing is to suddenly start a different campaign with an alternate setting.

I honestly like the 4th edition by removing magic. If anything metatypes are simply genetic mutations which cost more. Overall why not play a post apocalyptic world where there is a lot less high tech (I guess something like the trailers for the Book of Eli).

I think a star frontiers game based on the shadowrun system would work fine for me.
Draco18s
This.

On the other hand, I want to pick up Bronosaurus Rex someday--along with the The Complete Guide to Velociraptors--and do that for a while. Might be d20, but you can play a fucking raptor.
Wolfshade
QUOTE (Omenowl @ Dec 30 2009, 09:52 PM) *
Sometimes the games get weary either do to all the interactions, planning, etc. It has become a real world, but so real it feels like a job. I think the best thing is to suddenly start a different campaign with an alternate setting.

I honestly like the 4th edition by removing magic. If anything metatypes are simply genetic mutations which cost more. Overall why not play a post apocalyptic world where there is a lot less high tech (I guess something like the trailers for the Book of Eli).

I think a star frontiers game based on the shadowrun system would work fine for me.

Hmmm, been thinking of how to do a Fallout RPG. This may be an answer
MithrilGear
Personally I love how you can play just about anything you can think of, all with its ups and down. From a academic professor to a drug-popped hardcore killer, its all like silly putty in your hands. Or C4 depending on how you look at it.
vacrix
from a past session:

me -- pixie unarmed adept specialist w/ stealth capability
friend -- rigger

upon reaching the parade in Hong kong celebrating the city's being purchased by a megacorp (some jap one like wazu or something) we find our exotic food tasting tourguide's wujen relative mutilated alongside the rest of the wujen found and killed by the head of aquisitions office of the megacorp buying the city. the wujen guy knew a secret to an elixer that would extend one's life by 50 years. in order to find answers, i used stealth to go running around between the crowd looking for a riot police captain (basically someone who would answers) while my friend asked ppl what was happening via comlinks. using some sketchy phrase that scared ppl that eludes me, he got ppl to start rioting, upon which I started coup de grace -ing riot policemen.

Best part was my called shot to one guy's crotch landed, shattering his metallic cup and proceeding to pass through his genitals and into his anus. so basically my entire arm.

this is why you play shadowrun, for all the randomness, the lols and the awesome stuff.
Godwyn
The fact that with basic character creation, you can create a character as capable as you actually envision the character being. Why would the guy who just goes around killing things and looting learn more about magic than the professor at MIT&T.

Like the original designers of Daggerfall said, it never made since to them that no matter how many locks are picked or people robbed, a thief never became a better thief unless he went out and killed a troll.

And Dunkelzahn.

Draco18s
QUOTE (Godwyn @ Jan 3 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Like the original designers of Daggerfall said, it never made since to them that no matter how many locks are picked or people robbed, a thief never became a better thief unless he went out and killed a troll.


Look into Incursion Roguelike. It follows The Other Game's rules exceedingly closely (probably so closely the game itself has developed cancer), but a thief (well, any character) gets bonus exp for doing "thiefy things." There's a huge reward for touching every object on the level without being noticed. (i.e. loot an NPC's pockets--keeping items or not--and not being detected). You can be observed while looting chests and whatnot, but owned items have to be done in secret. Also exp for opening chests, killing monsters (bonus if you kill all hostiles), talking with friendlies, heck, there's even bonus exp for never being observed.

Last I checked a hybrid warrior/wizard (fighter who spends a lot of time figuring out magical devices), pure wizard, or rogue are the only ways to play. Wizards have very handy spells like Invisi-fucking-bility, rogues have Hide, and the warrior beats the living snot out of things, but unless he can use the bajillions of wands and scrolls laying around he's not going to get anywhere (even then his odds of survival past the third floor are slim).
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Godwyn @ Jan 3 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Like the original designers of Daggerfall said, it never made since to them that no matter how many locks are picked or people robbed, a thief never became a better thief unless he went out and killed a troll.


One time I had an idea to participate in a 3.0 campaign as an artisan (that NPC class) farmer who inexplicably only gets better at planting crops by going out and killing orcs.
Godwyn
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jan 3 2010, 06:42 PM) *
One time I had an idea to participate in a 3.0 campaign as an artisan (that NPC class) farmer who inexplicably only gets better at planting crops by going out and killing orcs.


While that would be funny in a sad way, the fact that the system is explicitly not designed to handle that alleviates it a bit. A bit. Though 3.x is better off than 4th is. Although shouldn't you have been a commoner not an artisan?
ravensmuse
Well, considering that Dungeons and Dragons is about heroes going off to fight, not artists and farmers...

It's always been that way in DnD, all the way back to 1e. Just like it's always been a strongly suggested house rule in every DMG I can remember reading that giving experience for doing thievely things is a good idea.

People always come up with these huge assertions and state them as absolute fact.
Ascalaphus
Well, in 2.5 you did get class-based individual XP as well as group XP for things like battling monsters. Wizards got XP for spellcasting, thieves for monetary achievement, and fighters got extra for body count. It makes sense, though balancing it, and applying it to the far more free multiclassing of 3.x would be tricky.

QUOTE
Well, considering that Dungeons and Dragons is about heroes going off to fight, not artists and farmers...


That's really the crucial argument.

I don't believe you can build a game system good at everything; better to make good rules for what really matters in the game, and leave the business on the side to common sense and DM-player consensus.
Ophis
I got into SR via the second Secrets of Power book (I've never read the first). I just loved the style and the concept, magic, monsters and espionage.

The deep back story trapped me and turned interest into love/obsession.

Mostly SR is fun because of the range of stories I can tell, my group at the moment has a disgraced doctor mage, a druggie artist awakening mage, a transhumanist rigger and a vat grown teenage girl with an AI best friend. That's a lot of stories right there and that's just one game.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jan 4 2010, 07:03 AM) *
Well, in 2.5 you did get class-based individual XP as well as group XP for things like battling monsters. Wizards got XP for spellcasting, thieves for monetary achievement, and fighters got extra for body count. It makes sense, though balancing it, and applying it to the far more free multiclassing of 3.x would be tricky.



That's really the crucial argument.

I don't believe you can build a game system good at everything; better to make good rules for what really matters in the game, and leave the business on the side to common sense and DM-player consensus.



Actually, looking at my AD&D 2nd Edition, you received XP for performing class abilities then too... so there you go... and I have never had any difficulty in scaling XP for things other than the Killing of Creatures in my game... But maybe that is just me...

I do agree that game designers really only concentrate on the important things that they want to place in their games...

Keep the Faith
Cardul
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jan 4 2010, 10:22 PM) *
Actually, looking at my AD&D 2nd Edition, you received XP for performing class abilities then too... so there you go... and I have never had any difficulty in scaling XP for things other than the Killing of Creatures in my game... But maybe that is just me...

I do agree that game designers really only concentrate on the important things that they want to place in their games...

Keep the Faith



You also got XP for gold value of things and making gold back in 2nd Edition...
ravensmuse
I thought that went out after OD&D though - xp for money. Or I'm just misunderstanding what you wrote.
Cardul
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Jan 6 2010, 08:13 AM) *
I thought that went out after OD&D though - xp for money. Or I'm just misunderstanding what you wrote.


Nope...it was actually in my old DMG...it is why they put the Gold Value on magical items, in fact.
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