So, looking through Arsenal, I found those nifty Capsule Rounds and checking the Toxin section of the Core book and Arsenal, nothing really seems to be very usable with those... most of the substances are Contact AND Inhalation, which doesn't sound like such a good idea, if you are nearby yourself (of course, you could always take other precautions... but apart from that).

I suppose you would want something with just the Contact Vector, or am I on the wrong path here?

First thought was, of course, Gamma-Scopolamine, but that is Injection now, so not useful that way, anymore (as it was in earlier editions, IIRC).

So... what do you think is a useful substance for Capsule Rounds to incapacitate the target with (best one with Immediate consequences), that doesn't pose a danger for yourself in confined areas?

Bye
Thanee

You take a toxin with an injection vector and mix it with DMSO, which makes it a contact vector.

Leas + Slab + DMSO + Capsul round = $398 of instant "I was never here, and you were never shot"

Borrowing from a movie:

"Who the fuck are you?! Where the fuck am I? Why the fuck am I covered in goo? And WHERE THE FUCK DID THIS BRUISE COME FROM?!"

My reply:
"Come on, you know you like it."

Most creative use I've seen was loading them up with the Flu and then shooting things like door handles and other places the security team used. They waited 2 days and made the run when 1/2 the security was out on sick leave.

Ah, thanks. Missed that one, apparantly.

Bye
Thanee

That's pretty clever.

What would be the effect of insecticide capsule rounds on insect spirits?
I'm a little unclear on how the capsule rounds work here. In order to inject/dose things they generally have to hurt things... however paint rounds still color the target even if they don't do damage... This should be germane enough not to hijack.. but clarify how these things work.


One... bypass ItNW w/ stun damage... extra DV boost for being loaded w/ a severe allergen. (+4DV).
Two.... capsule breaks on ItNW... douses target... target now suffers +4 damage from further attacks due to being exposed to it's allergen?

NB: group is already using 'bug bombs' gas grenades loaded w/ insecticide... so second effect isn't as usefull and the +4DV is already in play generally.

Use the rules for the KE IV Insecticide toxin:
* The Insect Spirit gets -4 to all tasks while the Insecticide is on it (Severe Allergy)
* Bypasses Immunity to Normal Weapons to deal Power 8 Toxin damage (Physical), which is resisted by a Toxin Resistance test (Body only, no Armor applies)
* The damage is Acid damage, so it re-applies the damage every turn for (Rating) Combat Turns. Rating is up in the air (is it base DV? DV after initial Toxin Reduction?), but the GM should be able to figure this out. I'd rule as 8 Turns, just for simplicity.
* Chance for the Insect to go berserk as Bear shamans do.
* It is a contact toxin, so no need for DMSO.

As KE IV is a potent Insecticide, you may remove any/all of these effects or lower the power for less potent ones. However, KE IV is legal (8 Avail) and cheap (10 nuyen per dose. Some ammo is more expensive than this).

DMSO + zen

K-10. Best distraction ever

You are so totally right. This thing isn't complete without one other drug that just causes you to feel happy, and vaguely recall the aftereffects...

"I must have taken [xxx], I totally don't remember the last n hours, but I feel haaaaappy...."

Thanks for the answer hahnso. It doesn't fully answer my question though.

The chemical itself is fairly straightforward... even down to it's speed... immediate. (which doesn't mean right away, but at the end of that combat turn, after all the IP's).

One thing to keep in mind, is even the fastest acting chemicals aren't all that fast, and generally against spirits... you need the damage now... not after 2 passes have gone by.


The capsule rounds themselves do stun damage on impact... since they're delivering a toxin... do they count to bypass ItNW. Or are we reliant on the +4DV from the insecticide and a good hit to penetrate the.


IE: I have a SMG, DR5. I fire it at bug spirit... 1 net hit. Is it DR6... or DR10 (gel round.. .breaks on impact). If you get the +dam, then you've by the same margin also bypassed the ItNW as you've triggered the allergy. Also obviously, first round hits... bug takes a -4 penalty on all it's actions (including dodging the second shot). And obviously at the end of the combat turn... the chemical damage takes place. Even worse, if the ItNW isn't triggered it's got a +2 AP penalty increasing the immunity threshhold.


Though flipside... another thought is how much does acid cost! Gel rounds loaded w/ acid would also be an interesting idea for general use just for raw damage.

Acid is hellaciously expensive, for whatever reason. Something like Rating times 500 per dose. Not cost effective by any means. I won't get the Pestilent Defiler from Borderlands, I guess. At least, not against non-Insect targets.

There are arguments that you don't get additional allergy damage from the Chemical. If you want allergy damage from the chemical, you would have to use a specialized round that is made with an Insecticide compound, just like the rules for silver bullets.

In either case, you'd get the -4 to all actions as soon as you hit the insect (since it's immediate upon exposure, per the Allergy rules). All of the other effects are part of the chemical's effects.

By RAW, they are just Gel Rounds, so deal damage as Gel Rounds without the increased knockdown of Gel Rounds, I guess. *shrugs* In our games, similar to the rule used for Shock Gloves versus Unarmed, you don't get the stun damage from the round, only the compound within. There is precedent for this, if you look at the rules for the Slingshot in Arsenal:
"A slingshot uses shuriken ranges. If firing hard projectiles, use the damage code listed, while capsule rounds usually do no damage but can provide other effects depending on the possible payload." It cuts down on the bookkeeping, at least.

for those pesky hellhounds that the some places use as guards, how about urine from a female hellhound in heat? shoot the two legged guards with them to slow them down.(its hard to run while you have a hellhound humping each of your legs)

Two chemicals that explode on contact with each other? Alternating in a clip, and fired full-auto.

Man, if you've managed to hit someone with a kilogram worth of bullets and they're still standing, you'd best run.

Or risk being bludgeoned by a flaming troll!

Simply because that sort of alien's blood like effect requires an extremely powerful acid. With the added trouble of holding it in the round for a rather long time as well as making it thick enough to cling to the target rather than drip to the ground.
Normal acids, even extremely strong ones, requires at least minutes to chew through something arther than seconds.

For the poor runner I'd suggest Pepper Punch.

Having the opponent vomit his guts out and going all teary eyed is a great distraction for them - and cheap.

I suggest having these as "riot grenades" as well.

Not usre if it can work but having DMSO and Quicksilver might be an odd addition. They sure wont mix in the normal sense.

I can't help but wonder what happens if you take any corrosive chemical and mix it with DMSO...

That sounds great ! How did you get that price tag ? Is that per bullet/capsule ? Like Slab being 150 as per ARS p76. Is that for a single dose ?

Someone else posted the $398 cost, but its derived from 1 capsule round + 1 dose of slab + 1 dose of Leas + either 1 or 2 doses of DMSO.

How many doses fit in a capsule? That's two or three doses listed. So each round only holds half a dose worth of the mixed chemicals? And the cost of chemicals per round would be halved.

Well, it is Handwaived a lot, as doses of actual chemicals will vary by liquid volume depending upon the drug/chemical involved...

If I have someone wanting to purchase a 400 Nuyen Round for his weapon, go for it... that round may not even hit the target, much less be effective 100% of the time, so it balances out in the end... These rounds get real expensive fast... and I would tend to enforce minimum lot limits of 10...

So if you want to do something like that, minimum order is going to be a box of 10 rounds customized with a chemical mixture to match... gets awful expensive at 4000 Nuyen for a box of 10 rounds... as such, they are not purchased very often...

Keep the Faith

Suppressive fire, go!

No Doubt...

Keep the Faith

It's important to remember that chemicals are held in solution. Regardless of what you add to the solution, the relative volume is not going to change much. As I recall, DMSO is a solvent, so it would just be substituted for whatever else the doses are dissolved in.

Did Hyper make it into 4E? The drug that hyperactivated your senses?

I used to have a old character with hyper/cayenne pepper/DMSO grenades. Sometimes he'd pay a bum to pee in a cup and mix that in as well.




-karma

laés costs 500, why not Pixie Dust? it's only 40 and 1D6 minutes memory loss seems enough to forget an encouter. probably with some good old neurostun or narcojet. put in some eX or Push in he even feels happy about it.

but i really want to know, how much doeses fit into one capsule/gas grenade

Well... sniping people with a K-10 round and watch them go crazy berserk and after that drop dead (or comatose). It's just 900 a round *g*

Ah, and you have to get them mad at their own people somehow... ah maybe just mix some other drugs in, so he loses ALL control. Maybe some Guts. Holy crap... that is awesome.

Hmm, what would the effect be of having a round of 90% Alcohol+Dmso hit someone?

I know the amount of alcohol is very little but with such concentrations the effect should show pretty soon as it go straight into the bloodstream.

Anybody said HMHVV yet?

Well, yes, that should work - in a long term perspective.

Just remember - if YOU could do it, so could the GM.

Hmm..perhaps I should start playing a ghoul with Capsule round ammunition filled with DMSO and his own blood...

Paintball - Serious Business

The look on your GM's face is totally worth it

It IS a bit of lampshading the sillyness that are the infction rules ^^
Also the most likely TOTAL Apocalypse setting in shadowrun nowadays.

Hmm, one should be able to increasy the potency of the drug by making it more concentrated in order to fit more than one dose per round. Perhaps doubling the price of each dose per extra dose added.

Guts+Kali & DMSO= X2 (since i dont count the DMSO as part of the added drug calculation)

Most neuroactive chemicals are measured in micrograms and milligrams. Potency shouldn't be much of a problem. You can either assume that the chemicals come powdered and ready to mix, or in solvent and ready to distill out via commonly known kitchen chemistry processes. There's lots of detail to be had here, but I've got no reason to be anal enough to research the likelihood that you'd destroy the chemical just by boiling out the solvent to leave powder.

Autofire weapon full of freeze foam capsule rounds... Jackstop rounds ... alakhest rounds... the limit is your imagination.

HMHVV.

I mean, just think. You've splattered the walls with the stuff. No one's going to come by here in a while.

Aside from the walls maybe. Because HMHVV has the habbit of making people come back.
Can you imagine what vampiric walls would be like? O.o They would infect the rest of the Building.
Then the Building would infect other Buildings. Untill the complete City has been turned into an undead moloch.

A person or thing which demands or requires costly sacrifices?

OK, now I have to listen to Ginsberg reading Howl... :-/

In German it describes something which (metaphorically) devours and taints everything around it, especially applied to sprawl-like cities.


And another idea I just got for capsule rounds...anyone remember Mission Impossible part 1?

Which reminds me of Chris Rock and his idea to prevent death by firearms. You don't forbid guns, just make the bullets crazily expensive, like 10 thousands bucks a bullet, then, people will kill someone if they area really really reach, or really really want to kill the guy.

"Man, John was killed yesterday by 50k worth of bullets, whatever he did, he must have deserved"

and i feel my choice of words is justified in both cases ^^

No, i don't remember, what happened?

The agents needed to keep a guy away from his desk, so they spiked his coffee with a good dose of laxatives. That way you don't even have to hide the dead/unconcious body

Hmm...

So how quickly does a high concentration of DMSO+Laxatives take to have...how shall we say...explosive effect on the subject...

Well, it may go straight into the bloodstream like this, but the chemical and physical process of speeding up digestion will still take it's time.