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WalksWithWiFi
So, i have a player who on average carries around a ballistic riot shield, he likes to wade into
battle and pretty much use his 6'5 orkish frame to for all intents and purposes, get everyone on his sorry
ass and 'tank'.
Here is where it gets interesting, said player now has the idea to carry two shields, one on his back,
another in his off-hand.
So, should i slap the player with another -1 mod to all phys actions?
Draco18s
I'd slap him with a -1 to all actions and only grant additional armor (equal to half the value of the shield) only when the attack comes from behind. He can't maneuver that shield like the one he's carrying on his arm, so its of limited use, but still causes encumbrance.
Nightfalke
QUOTE (WalksWithWiFi @ Jan 29 2010, 09:56 AM) *
Here is where it gets interesting, said player now has the idea to carry two shields, one on his back,
another in his off-hand.
So, should i slap the player with another -1 mod to all phys actions?


I see someone has been playing a lot of Modern Warfare 2...

At least another -1. It's an inflexable backpack at least, and a major annoyance at most. Most riot shields are not designed to be worn on the back, no matter what the folks at Infinity Ward say, and would probably have to be specially modified to do that comfortably.
Squinky
My point of view is this:

If he wants additional armor from it, and you agree, trade it off with an appropriate penalty.

If he just wants to have it on him, kinda like some folks carry multiple weapons, and he isn't trying to gain more armor, its all good. Excepting certain physical skill tests smile.gif
Kliko
whack your player for being silly talker.gif
Machiavelli
By the way: do ratings exist for an medieval shield from a knight or an samurai?
BishopMcQ
I've never seen official stats for a medieval style shield. What I'd recommend is a heater would be +0/+4, a Kite Shield is +1/+5 (with an additional -1 if not on horseback), and a tower shield if +1/+8 (with a -3 for all physical actions when moving with the shield)
Kovu Muphasa
As someone who has used Shields in Medieval Reenactment I can tell you this.
-A Shield on the “Back” is a big waste, It is encumbering and unless specifically made for this purpose, very restricting.

I he wants to wear a shield on his back it’s not a shield, It is armor. Apply the Stacking Armor Rules
SR4 pg315
SR4.20 pg 161

Or just say NO! I don’t want to come with rules for that!

Axl
I would say "no".
Mongoose
Wearing a big flat board strapped to your back is a sure way to get grabbed from behind and effectively immobilized. Once they grab on, you've got and enemy behind you by an enemy you can't reach or even see. That's exactly why the knights went for armor that allowed MOBILITY.
wind_in_the_stones
When I was a teenager and played AD&D, we didn't use encumbrance rules, and we did that. Oh, and I was an 80th level paladin.

But if you want to get serious, ask the guy how well he'll be able to maneuver that shield into the path of an attack. When the guy who's behind him is swinging for his head. I'd go with the armor stacking rules, and also that it only applies to attacks from behind. I mean, how often is someone attacked from behind, and hit in the back? Or... there are still too many cases where that wouldn't make sense. Just no.
WalksWithWiFi
Thanks for all the input,
i will talk to the player, if not direct him to this thread and see what he thinks in general towards his idea now.

thanks again.
Lansdren
I can speak from experience that trying to walk around with a archers shield on your back is bad enough (mine is abit custom made with a second strap to let me carry it slung over my back when I'm carrying other gear from one place to the other). They are heavy, uncomfortable in that position and only of any use in actual combat if you use them correctly. Whilst I kind of like the idea from a look perspective from a combat perspective its not a very good idea.

I apologise for bring the real world into a discussion about shadowrun
McCummhail
If he wants to gain some benefit from it, he can use the ladder eqp on the SWAT shields to use it as stationary cover.
He would be using it as Cover rather than Armor with those rules applicable.
The main drawback is having to set it rather than carrying it.
In the end, the bother of dealing with 2 shields if probably not worth the benefit.
I had a troll hacker that carried a shield almost everywhere and it was a constant hassle.
2 would be a logistic nightmare in most situations.
CanadianWolverine
Stacking Armor rules sounds good enough to me. Let him have his fun and the encumbrance penalties that come with it. *shrug*
Saint Sithney
Make him the butt of a bunch of turtle jokes. Everywhere he goes, it's "Cowabunga dude!"
MikeKozar
Just out of curiosity, do riot forces ever rig those Troll-stunners to their riot shields? Give 'em a little more punch?

...'cause I think they do in my game now. >:D

(checks his SR4A on the way to the Patent Office) Oh, hey, look at that...pg 327.
BishopMcQ
Shock shields were introduced in SR3, SotA 64 I want to say...I had a combat shaman who fought with one. I almost made it a sustaining focus to, but I never got around to it.
Ophis
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Feb 1 2010, 07:48 PM) *
Shock shields were introduced in SR3, SotA 64 I want to say...I had a combat shaman who fought with one. I almost made it a sustaining focus to, but I never got around to it.


Surely throwing it is the next logical stage.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Ophis @ Feb 1 2010, 03:00 PM) *
Surely throwing it is the next logical stage.


See my signature.
Neraph
QUOTE (Ophis @ Feb 1 2010, 02:00 PM) *
Surely throwing it is the next logical stage.

Missile Mastery + Power Throw.
Ophis
QUOTE (Neraph @ Feb 1 2010, 11:37 PM) *
Missile Mastery + Power Throw.


Obviously. smile.gif
Neraph
Oh, let's add a smartgun link to the taser shield, then add an explosive self destruct advanced saftey.
MikeKozar
QUOTE (Neraph @ Feb 1 2010, 04:15 PM) *
Oh, let's add a smartgun link to the taser shield, then add an explosive self destruct advanced saftey.


Self-propelled mod and a pilot system so it can fly back to you.
Ophis
QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Feb 2 2010, 02:05 AM) *
Self-propelled mod and a pilot system so it can fly back to you.


I'd suggest Dikote (but its gone) and inhabiting it with my ally spirit. That way it can fly and thus bounce off wall back to me.
Nightfalke
Have a cyber arm to throw the shield with with a rating 6 mathematics (specializing in geometry and physics) software program installed so you can use precisely the correct amount of force and angle to bounce off 3 walls, hit the target, and roll back to you.
Nightfalke
double post. oops.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Nightfalke @ Feb 2 2010, 09:43 AM) *
Have a cyber arm to throw the shield with with a rating 6 mathematics (specializing in geometry and physics) software program installed so you can use precisely the correct amount of force and angle to bounce off 3 walls, hit the target, and roll back to you.


Or you could just name your (female) character Xena. wink.gif

And unfortunately this is the best video I can find: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47piyWCysoY
Might as well mute the shitty sanish music and skip to the 7 minute mark.
CanadianWolverine
While you were thinking Xena during all those fun posts, I was thinking Captain America nyahnyah.gif biggrin.gif

The following video is Cap's shield being "tested"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQhJEytI5uQ
Draco18s
QUOTE (CanadianWolverine @ Feb 2 2010, 02:12 PM) *
While you were thinking Xena during all those fun posts


No, just the last one about bouncing it down a corridor. If you actually remember "Been There, Done That" Xena calculates a trajectory to throw her...thingy...at in order to knock off an old man's hat before he gets run over by a carriage (saving his life), a few other things, and finally smash the vial of potion that's causing "groundhog day." And she does the whole calculation in the middle of a Capulet v Verona type all out war in the town square.
Neraph
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 2 2010, 01:41 PM) *
... Xena calculates a trajectory to throw her...thingy...at in order to ...

Chakram. Thank you, D&D.
MikeKozar
The trick with Cap's shield is that they bother to use some handwavium to justify the excessive bouncing, whereas the chakram should have gotten lodged in a skull halfway through. IIRC (and I'm not sure if knowing this or getting it wrong would make me a bigger nerd) Cap's shield is an alloy of several of Marvel's magical metals, including Adamantium and Vibranium. The Adamantium is the stuff that makes Wolverine's skeleton unbreakable, but Vibranium has even stranger properties. Supposedly it reflects/redirects kinetic energy, such that even heavy weapons bounce off Cap's shield without knocking him flat. This energy that should have gone straight through instead accumulates in the rim of the shield and is discharged when it hits something, causing the incredible ricochet effect. Catching it? That part's all Cap.

...The science, while goofy, is at least internally consistent. That's all I ask, really.


I hadn't considered the Ally Spirit angle, but that's a really good way to reproduce the magic shield effect. ItNW should make a possessed shield darn near indestructible (depending on Force, naturally) and I imagine being dual-natured might give you some advantages against magical threats as well. I also really like the idea of a shield sailing into your hands apparently unpowered much better then trying to do the same thing with rotors or thrusters in a weapon mod. Of course, you have to rate having an Ally Spirit to pull this one off...


(HCNB: Yes, I recall Hephesteus' Metal - but it was never implied to be more then really good steel, whereas the Shield is some kind of magic. )
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