LOL, I was not reffering to mana spell ... but to physical ones. hum ... Hightech Otomo are affected by spell right ? OR they have removed the tech level into the equation of spell ?

hehe I figured that but still try fireball on an AI how will you target it? not the node the AI is using even though that will probably not be effective unless its cut off from the rest of the matrix.

Yeah but targeting the "body" of the AI (IE: Otomo) ?

Edit :
Highly Processed Objects
(Computers, Complex Toxic Wastes, Drones, Vehicles) 6+(Threshold)

AI in drone are nearly immuned to magic ...

Looks are indeed deceiving...

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Actually Drones have a threshold of 5+ (not 6+)... and they are very difficult to hurt due to their Object Resistance, Yes... But an AI is not a Drone (nor a computer, etc), so the comparison is a little pointless, as you CANNOT target an AI Directly (with magic)......

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what if you got ahold of its sourcecode?...

or more importantly its machine code?

nothing I guess now that I think about it..

Yeah, Pretty Much...

If you could somehow trap the AI out of its home node, you could destroy it, but that is a function of its existence, not how it interacts with magic...

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That's why the "" that include Body inside ...

Unfortunately, Magic does not target the "Body" of a Drone (well, Direct Damage Magic Anyway)... it gets no resistance outside of its Object Resistance...

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Otomo modified with Armor 6 (Concealed or not) = 12d minimum.
It is still armor * 2 (In SR4A in the spell target paragraph)

Sapience and life are two different things. While the AI is a sentient being, it lacks life in a biological sense and has no aura. It won't show up on the astral, same way the matrix and sprites do not. If it is rigging something, the rigged body and whatever it is wearing will show up, of course, but the AI? No. It might as well be a normal drone.

No one reacted on the Deepweeded mage in the matrix ... What would happen ?

Div by zero

Probably the headache of his life. The poor schmuck astrally perceive his physical surrounding (astral perception is jinda like an extra sense that as of 2070 is not mapped to brain areas and cannot be emulated/overriden by simsense signals), while his other senses are fed conflicting inputs from whatever matrix location he's browsing at the moment...

Basically he'll overload ?

Probably not unless both are strong stimulis (say assensing a gory murder scene while surfing an orkxploitation concert simsense feed), but probably distracted and confused because he's basically trying to do two things at once, I'd say something like -2 to -4 to matrix activities and assensing.

He gets dumpshocked and then goes on a bad trip.

Again... Drones do not soak with Armor against a Direct Damage Spell (Neither do people for that matter)... The Drone (Person) could have 100 points of armor (or hell, even a Thousand)... still no soak...

It is in the book... Page 204, First Full Paragraph on the Left... SR4A

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Okay, haven't really been keeping up, but just to throw a wrench in the discussion... can a spirit use endownment on an AI?



Let the battle begin!

IMHO no

Tymaeus--

The quote you are looking at is for Direct Combat spells (Manabolt, Powerbolt, etc.) Indirect Combat spells (Fireball, Acidwave, etc.) are resisted by drones.



I understand that you called out Direct Damage spell in your response, but the first person to talk about magic was talking about a fireball, so I thought it worth mentioning.

In direct damage, the mage needs to get 6+ hit before counting net hits to damage a drone (P.183 SR4A Object Resistance Table) So an AI in a Drone has nothing to fear about magic.

The same could be said for a rigger with a drone...it has nothing to do with an AI. Drones are very resistant to Direct Combat spells (Direct Damage is a misnomer) but Indirect will damage them the same as everyone else. That is one of the reasons to include Indirect Combat spells in your mage's repertoire.

I have a sort of setting related question now, thanks to all this discussion on AI and Auras when targeting and destroying came up:

Would AI view magic as so alien that it would fear it and try to destroy it? Visa versa with something magical fearing AI.

Just having some ideas on some opposing forces, like magicians lobbying against AI getting SINs and citizenship.

Sorta like imagining two perfectly valid theories in science at war with each other to become the dominant theory of the reality they exist in. Hmm, like I wonder if eco-terrorist shamans would be trying to kill the technology that makes AI life possible ...

Realms of Resonance vs Astral Realms...

This is interesting.

not so sure its equally alien. a free spirit could view the matrix through VR glasses. an AI could never view the Astral through any method I know of (not sayen there isnt some way just I dont know it). at worst they would probably view the other as something that doesnt matter. the whole invisible pink elephant in the room.

course if spirits or AI are anything like humans perhaps they will invent a religion about the other.

But if the AI are realy passions ? Wouldn't they be Magic ?

Actually, I can not think of any way a free spirit could view VR.
A possession free spirit posessing a person might be able to bend the restrictions far enough to see AR.
But Materialization Free spirits can not even see projected computer images. (Presumably, this restriction is intended for balance.)

Yours,
Joel

Synner (Peter Taylor) once described it as the Spirit not having a central nervous system for the trodes to interact with, and thus the VR signals couldn't interact properly. It may be possible for a corporation to do all the necessary research for free spirits to use VR, but outside of a few countries that recognize free spirits as citizens there is little call for it from the populace.

Possession spirits could possibly use their host's body for the connection, likewise a spell that shared sensory information could allow them to experience VR. There are no known corroloaries to map Astral Perception to a specific sense, since it is a psychic awareness. Again, just need more research.

@BishopMcQ but in relation to the 4th world the AIs are Passions right ?

That relies on facts not in evidence, such as my complete lack of familiarity with Earthdawn except what I've read on AH's pages and discussions over food with a few people.

So IF AIs are Passions, so they are magical beings ...

Thanks BishopMcQ... Must have missed the Indirect indicator in the post... and yeah, I did indicate Direct Damage... just to cover my tracks, I do know that Indirect spells are both dodgeable and soakable...

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Why should they be?

ED Passions are magical beings and AI seems to follow the path of Passions. How they emmerged and stuff.

Sorry... I am just not seeing it...

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Nevermind that it was a delerium when we were debating the source of magic. We were talking about Passions and Horrors and AI came up ...

Ahhhhh..... Sorry, Still not seeing it... Must have missed that.

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Dislexia strike again ... it as written ALL and I read AI ... damned me !

Sorry for breaking the thread but... what in the name of [insert Deity of reader] just happened?

Honestly... I am still wondering that... But it is okay...

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AI would be the resonance version of passions not passions.

But why do we even need the comparison to start with?

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Just a bad case of dislexia from my part !