Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but do AI have auras. For example, say our mage is astrally perceiving and he sees the shadow of a device on the astral. Say that device contains a node that contains an AI. could our mage see the AIs aura?

I've been having discussions about this topic with a player in my game who plays a bit of a techno-phobic hedge magician. The presence or lack of an aura will probably heavily color this character's conception of AIs.

AFAIK they don't have auras in any regard. I can't point you to a page or anything, but that seems like a large jump so I'd think that a no mention means they don't have one as opposed to them having one, as programs by default don't show up on the astral at all.

I do not have anything from the books to back up my statements regarding this but from the way I read magic, auras are tied to biological life forms. AI's are not truly alive; they can simulate metahuman emotion and can be very creative in interpreting their programming or even rewrite it on the fly to simulate subjective/objective thought. But to magic they have no soul. Perhaps when a great dragon decides to adopt one and "name" it it will acquire an aura but until then they are as dead as a commlink


Some would read that as they do have an aura because there is nothing to say they don't. They are a sentient playable race after all...

It has been discussed and it is mute point because you can't see it through the nexus housing, wire jackets or anything else that contains the AI. They are opaque in the astral.

So is clothing, but someone doesn't have to be naked to show up on the astral.

That is true, I'd forgotten about the most basic thing, only biological things seem to show up on astral, everything else is just a gray shadow.

You just opened the door for someone to quote street magic and that line about auras going through clothing... I understand what your trying to say but remember that cyborgs have an aura and that it can not be seen through the metal housing... Makes you wonder if someones aura should show through Milspec armor.

Where should such an aura come from? I mean AIs only differ from pilot programs or SKs in their behaviour, the way it runs on a device should be no different. So if non-sentient programs do not have an aura (that should have been noticed), AIs shouldn't have one.

Well, I suppose it says clothing and not armor... I'm sure at some point it has to get thick enough to cover your aura. It might show through a t-shirt, but maybe not through a lined jacket or a cold weather parka or something similar.

iirc, even military grade armor is not thick enough to block the aura...

as for the cyborgs, the only thing left living there is the gray matter...

even someone with all cyberlimb replacements have more than that...

for those in the know, full cyberlimb replacement = robocop, cyborg = robocop 2.

Is that stated anywhere? Then again, I don't expect MG armor to be as thick as a good winter parka even, so it could make sense.

maybe not in the lastest round of books, but i have not read them in cover to cover. Earlier books where very specific about the aura reaching out beyond armor.

I know, I was just using it as an example...
As a side note... Why can't you see the aura of someone leaning against a thin door or a pannel wall.



We use the same analogy at my table. However, we see the first Robocop as closer to a cyberzombie than full replacement cybernetics. He even comes complete with an Invoked Memory Stimulator. He just happens to be more stable than your "run-of-the-mill" cyberzombie. I believe Robocop 2 (movie not the cyborg) explained why he was so stable (compared to the others they tried to make after him) as he had "purpose." Like the reason that Mr. Smith didn't "die" when Neo corrupted his code.

Would give Militaries better magical protection if it did.

heh, you cant really go full replacement in any meaningful way unless your either using delta or goes zombie anyways...

this raises the questions:

1. what is an aura tied to? life or intelligence

2. what is life? the biology 101 definition or perhaps something ammended.

3. do viruses have auras? what about bacteria? what about algae? what about lawyers? what about sponges?

Bacteria and algea have an aura acording to Street Magic. At least that is what they say about ocean water. The only non-living thing that has an aura is the Earth itself. If you want to say the Earth is nonliving thing that is... You could view it as residual mana collected/concentrated around the earth from the living things on it than the Earth having an aura itself. I like the Gaia idea better though....

the idea that a mixture of molten slightly radioactive stuff with a thin crust is alive? perhaps there should be more mages worshiping volcanos.

Animals have auras...

Like I said... It is the only object that has an aura. (Also... it's "Named" lol)
But maybe thats how Druidic traditions started. Would make Hawaii a really interesting place... Not that it's not already...

na volcano's aren't alive it was just red dragons in them demanding their favorite delicatessen, female virgins.


hmm... I wonder if thats who started that area of erotica... dirty old dragons

If a person is accessing a node, does the node glow on the astral?
Not that I'm aware of.

The same must be true of an AI.

Think of it this way: The astral plane provides a view of the world as pure emotion. The matrix is instead a place of pure logic.

Full replacement works out pretty well with Alpha Grade... Have had 2 characters in our game with such technology, and it was pretty potent... no real need for better quality unless you are just trying to cram even more stuff in there...

And hell, with a Treatment of Adapsin, the Biocompatability (Cyberware) Quality, and CyberSuite options... you can get AlphaWare for .5 the Normal Essence Cost...

Keep the Faith...

I don't know if I consider the matrix a realm of pure logic, but I do really like your explanation.

Well, it's not a realm in the sense that astral is a realm. That's for sure. However, everything which takes place in the matrix does so according to extremely regimented rules which always break down into ones and zeros. It's the most logical system possible. That's not to say that people operating in the matrix are somehow limited so some kind of "Vulcan Logic" mindset. It just means that at the heart of any system, and any command or action, there is a basis of perfect crystalline logic.

I agree that the Matrix is the world of binary, but with odd things like dessonance sprites and e-ghosts, there is more to it than just logic.

Hows about the Astral is Emotion and the Matrix is thought.

Things in the matrix that could have aura : Sprites (Free and bounded), E-Ghosts, Technomancers in the matrix or jumped in a drone.

not sure that would go over well with the thumaturgists that like having tomes with formule on how to caste spells. And the matrix only thought? then why the need or desire for emoticons or avatars that display emotion? Also for the published works I have read through sprites seem to have as much emotion as free spirites.

I would put forth instead the astral is about abstract thought and ideas and the matrix is direct logic.

Except that Spirits (Manifested or not) and projecting/perceiving mages cannot perceive the Matrix, and Matrix entities exist solely upon the matrix environment, the question of whether A matrix entity has an aura is pretty ridiculous...

Since the only things that can perceive both (A mage with access to both the Matrix and Astral Environments) CANNOT perceive them simultaneously, Aura perception is pretty irrelevant...

Keep the Faith

it would also imply that elementals should have a presence on the matrix.

Why, they are spirits, not matrix entities... with the possible exception of a "Light" elemental, assuming that one actually existed (check the list... nope, no light elemental), novels notwithstanding

Keep the Faith

You had to bring that up didn't you...

See Daylen, Not Me... he is the one who brought up Elementals...

Keep the Faith

YOU mentioned light elementals...

True... I did... and again, I do not see them in any book I own... Do You?

Keep the Faith

Not in any book I own, but I've sadly read the Lucifer Deck with contains a light elemental in the matrix...

linky scroll way down

light elemental?

isnt the matrix being paralled with the astral? if it is and matrix entities get to have an aura then astral entities should be on the matrix ... somehow.

I'm really going after the idea of matrix entities not having an aura.

Is an interesting Novel... but I prefer my magic to stay out of the Matrix...

though one could argue that is was not truly an elemental, but something else from a very deep metaplane... though I would still not link it to the Matrix personally...

Keep the Faith

Which I totally agree with... that Matrix Entities DO NOT have an Aura...

Keep the Faith

SR Novels aren't canon, since they have the creative license of the authors twisting the rules. This isn't to say that you can't use the information within, but at some point, you'll have teleporting elves with backpack hang gliders and trolls that turn to stone when bullets hit them.

teleporting elves? maybe its good that I dont read many SR novels.

I was referring to the most recent First Person Shooter version of Shadowrun (the trailer prominently features teleporting elves with backpack hang gliders), which is possibly one of the worst use of creative license in a video game, only to be exceeded by Dante's Inferno by EA.

Even a mage under the influence of Deepweed ?

As Programs (and thus AIs) are not alive, they would not have an aura.

That would be a Resonance Signature, not an aura...at least in my book. All of the items you discussed are Emergent creatures rather than Awakened ones.

Emmergence look like magic to me.

But it doesn't to a mage.

Note that in RC they make a point of saying that AIs do not earn Karma in the sense that, for example, free spirits collect. This seems to me symptomatic of their being sompletely separate spaces with no overlap. If AIs had auras, then there would be the potential for itneraction between spirits and AIs.

Joel

So spell does not affect AI ...

try mind probe on an AI. or first say how you're gona target it.