Many Asian cultures bow. It is a part of the daily interaction but they acept it is particular to them. When President Obama tried, and failed, to bow to the emperor of Japan it caused outrage in the US but the Japanese media seemed to pass on it saying basically "Well it was nice of him to try" BUT when the CEO of Toyota held a conference to apologise for his car quality his perfunctory bow of only the head was eviserated. One journal saying it was the sort of bow given by two neighbors who find they're taking out the garbage at the same time.

Personally I have a dear friend who is the daughter of Japanese parents and I am amused when we shop at an Asian market to see her bow to the staff, not big but when the fish guy hands her, her selection, he gets a little bob. Same at the check out lane. You'd never see that from her at a 'white' market.

But it stresses how even outside of Japan the bow is still 'taught.' So in the Japanese corps outside of Japan would there be bows? Would they expect North American or European employes to adopt the same cutlure? I was imagining the Seattle Aracology, before it went to hell, kind of like that. Japanese officials and osme shops and many Oxidental employees. Would the bnow be seen as required from Oriental ewmployees? Required of Oxidentals? You work in our culture now. would it be expected an oxidental couldn't get it right but it would be nice to try (like president Obama) or would it be seen a sucking up?

Would an Oriental employee bowing to an Oxidental boss- "I have just transfered from the Osaka office to St Louis" freak the boss out?

Would bowing spread through much of corp culture? "Oh I like that style, I expect you to do it too" at the risk of seeming to push a Teutonic stereotype this could be big at SK.

Lastly if it doesn't spread would it be a tell for a recenlty extracted employee? "Nasty twitch you got there Miller." "Sorry, spent 12 years at Shiawase main HQ"

I could imagine the corps having a mandatory training program on how to bow,
bowing might also be inserted into skillsofts to reinforce the behavior.

As you pointed out, most Asians are good about recognizing that bowing is a custom peculiar to that part of the world. "Occidental" employees would probably bow to a senior manager or director who came over from the home office for a performance review or suchlike, but would almost certainly dispense with bows among themselves. Similarly, a Japanese employee transferring to an office in the West would probably bow reflexively for the first couple of weeks, simply because that's what he's conditioned to do, but I suspect that behavior would fade over time. Inversely, a Western employee going to a mostly (or entirely) Japanese office would almost have to learn to bow.

bowing is done in the west, just not in the same way or the same meaning as asian culture. performers bow at the end of a play, and of course there is the old european custom of bowing and scraping in court.

I think they would bow. "Westerners" among themselves might not bow, as a little way to buck the system (a nod to the "good old boy" system), but I think in the Japan-corps bowing would be considered standard across the world. The New Yen is a standard currency, Japanese is a common language, and Japan is a military power. People wear Asian styled "Power Suits" to the board room. So I think it would be pretty common for a corporation, which effectively is its own country, but is very proud it it's hereditary roots, would implement policies across the board so that the employees, regardless of cultural background, can "fit in." (Remember how Japanese business culture worked a few years ago, and even today is pretty prevelant. I think it's one of the main RL sources for how the Corps in Shadowrun operate: "the Corp is Mother, it is Father, it is Brother & Sister. You will live and die for the Family.")

If bowing is any thing like hand shaking, how many crappy hand shakes or hand shake faux pas have you seen. Like everything it is learned etiquette.

I doubt it would spread though out all the corps, I would say bowing is very common in the Japanese corps, and parts of Evo. There is no reason to think bowing is common in any of the other corps except in the Japan offices.

By the way "Orientals" are rugs, Asians are people.

Orient really just refers to the east so an oriental would be something from the east or Oriental someone from the east. I like Oriental more than Asian anyway, especially when I'm told its not politically correct.

PCness.



Not trying to make a fuss, but it's alot like Indian. It offends some people, alot of people don't care.

I sure could use some oriental food...this is making me hungry.

I would just add that the requirement to know the ins and outs of when and how to bow in a Japan-corp would most likely increase the farther one moved up the food chain, regardless if one was based in a western or eastern corp division.

I was an employee of Fujitsu (if SR was real life then they would be a Japanese Megacorp) in North America, but I still had to take classes in etiquette in case any of the upper level people came to visit.

And just in case your wondering, you exchange business cards just before the bow. Other wise you have no idea of your relative positions and will not know the depth and duration of your bow.

IIRC, there is also a non-trivial etiquette about how you exchange business cards.

SR is the "The Japanese are going to buy up America!" craziness from 80s Time magazine writ large and accurate. Of course, if you are an employee of a Japancorp you are expected to behave like a Japanese employee. They will forgive the fact that a gaijin doesn't speak a civilized language, but not rudeness.

That was the sort of hting I was wondering about.

Yeah on his travel show in Osaka Anthony Bourdain went into the whole ritual of exchanging cards with people you are unsure of.

We were taught to offer with the left and take with the right. You do both with the same time and hold the card with both hands when you bow. You scan the job title quickly before the bow and when in doubt bow deeper then the person you just traded with, especially if they are from the main office.

This particular area of PCness really annoys a Japanese-American friend of mine. He, quite correctly, describes its inaccuracy by pointing out that russians, indians and many others are technically "asian" but for some reason are excluded from this moniker in American english.

Back on topic, would Japanese etiquette specialization be enough to get bonus dice in a Japancorp?

It tends to happen more among those they think will bow back. I live in a university town, and the students bow amongst the large asian community (or do the Wai) but otherwise don't bother.

I'd say so. Just like European would work in S-K.


As for bowing in S-K.. I don't think so. Not when they're meeting among themselves, at any rate. Lofwyr's sponsorship of the NEEC points to a more European focus.

When they meet with Japanacorps officials, I expect there to be some mutual bowing. Depending on whether relations are good, those bows might be perfectly correct, or "accidentally" a little rude. A Westerner bowing precisely correctly would make a good impression, while a well-intentioned attempt would suffice for etiquette purposes.


The point with etiquette, above the precise local forms, is how much respect you're conveying towards someone else. Good communicators can convey that respect even if their execution of gestures isn't perfect.

The deepness and manner with which a bow is delivered is full of context and meaning.
It is often known that too little of a bow can often be seen as a sign of disrespect,
but bowing too much and being too 'gracious' can also be disrespectful,
especially when peers are there to set context.

I can imagine SK execs who know their etiquette being infuriatingly disrespectful
and playing it off as being ignorant.

If the real world is to be an example, my Japanese coworkers act surprised
every time someone speaks 'Japanese' to them or bows, whether they are surprised or not.

However, one of the guys higher up the food chain that has been overseas for many years
shows almost no Japanese mannerisms (and neither does anyone around him).

I include very 80's power corp Japanese nuances in my game because it is the foil to the punk.
A pink mohawk and an extendable middle finger are an interesting counterpoint to A carbon-copy flock of bowing wageslaves.

Semi-related to the topic at hand, but I didn't grow up in any kind of Asian culture,* but I have an intense desire to bow to people rather than shake hands or whatnot. Seems more appropriate.

*Except possibly the four or so years I did Karate twice a week.

I'm a fan of the "head nod." Not only is it a useful element of "Man Speak"* (such as the universality of grunts, and the strange array of handshakes), but if you hang around strong asian culture enough, you can incorporate "bowing" elements into it. Of course I would never try it for formal situations, but for everday "grocery store" ettiquite, it's quiet useful.



*(And "Man Ettiquete": such as the universality of "Rocks, Paper, Scissor" as a dispute arbitrator.)

I like the idea that it is the counter to the punk image.

I am American. My parents are Japanese. I was taught to bow and plan to teach this to my children, under the right circumstances. I would not bow to a peer regardless of race but do it as a show of respect to older Asians to show my respect for them and the culture they represent.

At work co-workers have said they always know when I am on the phone with an Asian customer because i bow in my seat. I do not even know i am doing that!


The supermarket SF mentioned is staffed by mainly Asians who barely speak English so it is a way to bridge the language gap and let them know they are not surrounded by 'barbarians.' Sorry gaijan readers.

My desire to bow occurs most strongly when I wish to thank someone for something, as they've provided some kind of help for which I am grateful.

Given that after many many years of college and having daily interaction with Japanese professors, I bow when I'm in a Japanese store/restaurant/environment, I would hell yeah would corporate employees bow, providing they were Japanese corps. I'm about as white and californian as you can get, but with reinforcement, you just do it.

This was especially true when I worked for Nintendo.

Ha! That's awsome. Quick question: Japan Nintendo or Nintendo of America (I think that was the corporate name here). Just curious.

Nintendo of America, here in Seattle. Well, Redmond, but close enough. The three branches are NOA, NCL (Nintendo Corporation Limited, which is the Japanese parent branch) and NST (Nintendo Software Techologies, which does first party game development in the US.)

Edit: I see you live in Redmond, so obviously you know of NOA's placement. Assuming your location is actually true.

I imagine a lot of this etiquette depends on what "feel" of game someone's going for, which is largely based on what edition they're used to playing, and at what point they got into the fluff/setting.

Early on, Shadowrun was chock full of the ZOMG JAPANESE stuff, with multiple Oriental megacorps owning huge swathes of the continent and making it Eastern -- it wasn't just a matter of Renraku having an office in Seattle, it was Renraku making part of Seattle Renraku's, complete with Eastern-style customs, mannerisms, and expectations.

In more modern Shadowrun material -- just like the NAN influence shrinking a bit -- big chunks of this have been downplayed, if not retconned. Perhaps due to the designers just changing the feel of the game, perhaps due to concerns with stereotyping/PC-ness, perhaps because the fears of America "turning" Japanese haven't been nearly so founded as they seemed in the 80's, or whatever of a dozen other reasons you might pick.

So I imagine bowing, as much as all the other quirks of other cultures, is going to vary wildly from game to game, GM to GM, and table to table. Some folks dig the weird sort of anthropological oil-and-water aspects of the early fluff, some feel they'd like a more "realistic" game with a bit more blending...*shrugs* Either way works.

I can imagine quite clearly a Nintendo AR "game".

The Nintendo BrainPower (能リョク), a datajack plug-and-play AR/VR game system,
featuring the popular BowMaster! (お辞儀達人). Own one today!

//The system has really slick interface and great AR applications with movement integration,
//but the hardcore gamers don't like it's lackluster VR power compared to other systems.
//This game is a complicity competition in disguise, though. Those Japacorps might as well
//install a dog brain emulator! --McCummhail

//DREK! Don't give em ideas! --Hakka

Now I'm imagining that the game would interface with your simsense set on the commlink, so players could rack up tatamae points for bowing correctly while thinking, "God, I hate this guy. He's such a crap manager."

We've got an etiquette skill for this, neh?

Sure, but it's all in the details. Etiquette definitely handles if you bow in appropriate situations and how well you bow, just like Armorer handles if you correcly reassemble that Ares Crusader II. But I find that the details - bowing, or adding an extra-stiff spring to handle your overloaded ammo, or if you put a short-shift kit in your aging Saab Dynamit - are what bring life to a piece of paper.

And for all that's holy, handle the card respectfully...