I think this board could use a thread about actions. Anyone with a question about what kind of action a certain action is, or anything else regarding the turn sequence, initiative, or combat phases, post them here.
I have a couple of questions to start out with. What kind of action is it to make a relocating test to find a hiding vehicle? And for the quick draw action, does the +2 modifier for an improper holster apply to concealed holsters?
Full Version: Actions
| QUOTE (Panzergeist) |
| What kind of action is it to make a relocating test to find a hiding vehicle? |
Complex. On P141 of SR3 it says that all vehicle actions are complex actions. Even though it ommits relocating from the list I'd say it still falls under the category of vehicle action and thus is complex.
| QUOTE (Panzergeist) |
| And for the quick draw action, does the +2 modifier for an improper holster apply to concealed holsters? |
They would have the +2 TN to quickdraw if they were using a normal concealable holster. You can get Concealable Quickdraw holsters, however. See P33, CC.
Personally speaking, the way that it is described in the book, I feel that any holster (read: not having stuffed the gun into your pocket/belt/pants) negates that +2TN penalty. Just so long as you can draw the pistol without catching it on anything, there is no +2TN penalty, regardless of the later addition of quickdraw holsters in CC.
Regular holsters have snaps or velcro straps to keep the gun from falling out of the holster when you're getting your athletics on (running, jumping, tumbling, getting up after being knocked down by a barrage of bullets or a sweep attack). Those things get in the way of quickly drawing your weapon. The quick draw holsters lack anything that secures the weapon in the holster, making it easy to draw the weapon quickly, but also easy for the weapon to fall out if you arent careful.
Why does it cost 50 
to remove a strap?
If the difference was the lack of a restraining device, quickdraw holsters should not cost any more than regular holsters.
to remove a strap? If the difference was the lack of a restraining device, quickdraw holsters should not cost any more than regular holsters.
Because those who want a quickdraw holster are willing to pay more for one? Perhaps the quickdrawness is marketed as an "added feature." Perhaps theres a tax on them to reduce their prevalence. Not all price differences represent differences in manufacturing cost.
What would you suggest is the physical difference between a standard or concealable holster and the quickdraw versions?
What would you suggest is the physical difference between a standard or concealable holster and the quickdraw versions?
Maybe quickdraw holsters are molded to be able to hold a gun in the holster during normal 'activity', but since the gun is not sealed in the holster, the user can just grab the gun and with little effort (read normal drawing motion) pull the gun free of the holster? I can picture the molded material in my head, but I can't adequately describe it at the moment...
| QUOTE (Jason Farlander @ Feb 9 2004, 11:03 PM) |
| What would you suggest is the physical difference between a standard or concealable holster and the quickdraw versions? |
The only ideas I have so far that would provide quickdraw functionality with little or no chance of the gun falling out would show up as bright as the gun on a MAD scanner.
My logic was that few would pay 50
for a holster feature when you can get the same function by taking a knife to a normal holster.
Herald and Elfie: What you're saying is reasonable. Its actually never come up in a game for me, so I (as I often do) made up an answer that made sense to me. How about lets stop hijacking this thread now, mmkay?
The only Quick Draw holsters I have ever seen are the 'break-away' type shoulder holsters, with velcro (or equivalent) holding the gun in place. These differ from regular holsters that have snaps/buckles/buttons/flaps/whatever.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Feb 10 2004, 03:48 AM) |
| Why does it cost 50 to remove a strap? If the difference was the lack of a restraining device, quickdraw holsters should not cost any more than regular holsters. |
actually, standard holsters like the ones used by law enforcement officers require a person to push down and back while readying the weapon out of the holster. It's a practiced movement in skills training. The reason for the feature is to prevent someone from just snatching the gun out of an officer's holster, strap or not. The holster is designed so the gun can not simply be lifted up and out. Kind of like what Elfie describes.
Here's a question, let's say for the sake of discussion someone wanted to make a character with the highest possible initiative at chargen in the priority system, with the restrictions that the character is mundane and has rescources C. How would you go about it? (I know that kind of limits your possibilities, but I wonder if anyone can surprise us and think outside the box.)
I believe that Quickdraw was phased out, though some OS 9 and earlier/"Classic" programs probably still use it.
~J
~J
All vehicle actions are complex? I know activating smoke dischargers and oil slick sprayers are simple actions. And manual gunnery supposedly follows the rules of normal firearm use, so isn't shooting a gun manually a simple action, but with the option of using more simple actions to aim?
well, the 'vehicle actions are complex' thing is a quote from the rigger section of SR3. it should probably be errata'd to read 'unless noted otherwise'.
| QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman) |
| Here's a question, let's say for the sake of discussion someone wanted to make a character with the highest possible initiative at chargen in the priority system, with the restrictions that the character is mundane and has rescources C. How would you go about it? (I know that kind of limits your possibilities, but I wonder if anyone can surprise us and think outside the box.) |
With those restrictions and using priority system I would do the following.
[ Spoiler ]
I'd be interested to see what others can do though.
Cant use the Adrenaline Surge edge with ANY reation enhancing cyber/magic.
Ack! Very true and NSRCG didn't even warn me 
You will still have the numbers I listed above you just won't have the chance to get higher 
Well take off 2 flaw points then as well
You will still have the numbers I listed above you just won't have the chance to get higher Well take off 2 flaw points then as well
This is my best shot
A: Attributes- 30 (put 8 in Quickness and 7 in Intelligence)
B: Race- Any Race (elf)
C: Resources- 90,000 (buy wired reflexes (1), trigger, inhaler, 20 doses of jazz)
D: Skills- 30
E: Magic- Mundane
Edges:
Bonus Attribute: Quickness (+2)
Exceptional Attribute: Quickness (+2)
Exceptional Attribute: Intelligence (+2)
Flaws:
Choose any to counterbalance (+6) edges
This puts your Initiative at 10+2d6, when you take jazz it ups the initiative to 11+3d6 which is a max/min of 29/14. It also leaves you with money for equipment and an addiction to jazz. If you wanted to you might be able to finagle the boosted reflexes 3 plus jazz (going over 90,000 slightly) for an initiative of 11+4d6. Also to consider, you might be able to get wired reflexes (2) *used* for under 90,000.
A: Attributes- 30 (put 8 in Quickness and 7 in Intelligence)
B: Race- Any Race (elf)
C: Resources- 90,000 (buy wired reflexes (1), trigger, inhaler, 20 doses of jazz)
D: Skills- 30
E: Magic- Mundane
Edges:
Bonus Attribute: Quickness (+2)
Exceptional Attribute: Quickness (+2)
Exceptional Attribute: Intelligence (+2)
Flaws:
Choose any to counterbalance (+6) edges
This puts your Initiative at 10+2d6, when you take jazz it ups the initiative to 11+3d6 which is a max/min of 29/14. It also leaves you with money for equipment and an addiction to jazz. If you wanted to you might be able to finagle the boosted reflexes 3 plus jazz (going over 90,000 slightly) for an initiative of 11+4d6. Also to consider, you might be able to get wired reflexes (2) *used* for under 90,000.
Used wired refs, huh? There's a nice safe piece of ware.
Switch race and resources. More cash, same elf.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Feb 11 2004, 02:48 PM) |
| Switch race and resources. More cash, same elf. |
It was stipulated that max resources was C/¥90,000, hence all the Race B characters.
~J
Edit: correction, it was stipulated that resources are EXACTLY C/¥90,000. Not that you'd have much reason to go lower, what with the mundane requirement...
Bah, sum to elf.
IIRC Quickdraw holsters in real life use a type of retainer spring at the bottom of the holster that puts pressure on the barrel of the weapon, which basically binds the barrel to the holster during active motion, but a tilt and pull pushes the spring away from the barrel and releases the gun. It's been a while since I've read Guns and Ammo, so I don't know how accurate my description is.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| Bah, sum to elf. |
I like the sounds of this chargen system.
~J
for fifty bucks, you should be able to get a holster made of low-end smart materials in SR, with an equally low-end printreader glued onto the control system. as you grab your gun, you touch your finger to the printreader (put it over the trigger for ease of finding) and the holster lets go of the weapon.
sum-to-elf? is that the new math?
sum-to-elf? is that the new math?
Here's the fastest Resources C guy I could make given a few minutes and the kind of clarity of thought that only exceptional weed can offer. 
Attributes A
Race B
Resources C
Skills D
Magic E
Night One Elf
B: 3
Q: 9
S: 4
C: 7
I: 6
W: 6
Bonus Attribute: Quickness
Lightning Reflexes, lvl 3
Aptitude: Small Unit Tactics
Flaws: to taste (12 points worth)
Skills: Small Unit Tactics 6
used Wired Reflexes 2, +2d6 +4 Rea
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Jazz, +1d6 +2 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Kamikaze +1d6 +1 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Psyche +1 Int (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Cram, +1d6 +1 Rea (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Novacoke, +1 Rea (lasts 7 hours)
This gives an initiative of 3d6 + 11, 6d6 + 15 with all the drugs. If she rolls well on her SUT test that could be 6d6 + 18 next round. Her reaction for surprise tests will be 14, 18 with the drugs.
Attributes A
Race B
Resources C
Skills D
Magic E
Night One Elf
B: 3
Q: 9
S: 4
C: 7
I: 6
W: 6
Bonus Attribute: Quickness
Lightning Reflexes, lvl 3
Aptitude: Small Unit Tactics
Flaws: to taste (12 points worth)
Skills: Small Unit Tactics 6
used Wired Reflexes 2, +2d6 +4 Rea
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Jazz, +1d6 +2 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Kamikaze +1d6 +1 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Psyche +1 Int (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Cram, +1d6 +1 Rea (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Novacoke, +1 Rea (lasts 7 hours)
This gives an initiative of 3d6 + 11, 6d6 + 15 with all the drugs. If she rolls well on her SUT test that could be 6d6 + 18 next round. Her reaction for surprise tests will be 14, 18 with the drugs.
| QUOTE (Zazen) |
| This gives an initiative of 3d6 + 11, 6d6 + 15 with all the drugs. If she rolls well on her SUT test that could be 6d6 + 18 next round. Her reaction for surprise tests will be 14, 18 with the drugs. |
How comes all night ones I see are women?
It's probably not useful in this exercise; but as an interesting note any character, even a mundane, can gain +3d6 initiative from a spell. It costs 16k. You just need to buy a force 1 bonded expendable anchoring focus (3*5=15k) with force 1 Increase Reflexes +3 cast in it.
You take the focus, have it implanted in a body compartment or as an extremely hard to remove piece of jewelry, then say the command word. The focus will sustain the spell until it's geeked by some astral drek like a ward or it's removed from your body.
You take the focus, have it implanted in a body compartment or as an extremely hard to remove piece of jewelry, then say the command word. The focus will sustain the spell until it's geeked by some astral drek like a ward or it's removed from your body.
'Cause the picture's cute, and nobody wants to be accused in any way of attempting to reproduce Forgotten Realms' "Drizzle Dude N" (name subtly changed to avoid anti-D&D hate mail...) 
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| Bah, sum to elf. |
Reference to German? elf=eleven.
| QUOTE (Zazen) |
| Here's the fastest Resources C guy I could make given a few minutes and the kind of clarity of thought that only exceptional weed can offer. used Wired Reflexes 2, +2d6 +4 Rea |
How did you used wired reflexes 2? Used for 82,500?
On mundanes with expendable anchoring foci.
Works on paper, not so much in daily life. You want me to spend karma to make you an item, bound to me (astral link) that you have ZERO ability to protect astrally and of a force sufficient that a stiff astral wind can knock it down? Oh and when you activate it, I get to suddenly resist the nice big drain? Yaaaa, that's gonna happen... any minute now...wait for it... hmmm, I was sure it was going down. Maybe later, while you sleep, in your dreams.
Kong
nm the house rule about a force 1 only being to give +1, meaning you'd need force 3, least in my neck of the woods.
Works on paper, not so much in daily life. You want me to spend karma to make you an item, bound to me (astral link) that you have ZERO ability to protect astrally and of a force sufficient that a stiff astral wind can knock it down? Oh and when you activate it, I get to suddenly resist the nice big drain? Yaaaa, that's gonna happen... any minute now...wait for it... hmmm, I was sure it was going down. Maybe later, while you sleep, in your dreams.
Kong
nm the house rule about a force 1 only being to give +1, meaning you'd need force 3, least in my neck of the woods.
There has been debate as to what "sum to elf" actually means.
Sum to ten, allows skills, resources, and race to be C options, A attributes, and nothing for magic. This doesn't make it any easier to reach amazing initiatives, but makes the character slightly more useful during an actual game.
Sum to ten, allows skills, resources, and race to be C options, A attributes, and nothing for magic. This doesn't make it any easier to reach amazing initiatives, but makes the character slightly more useful during an actual game.
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| It's probably not useful in this exercise; but as an interesting note any character, even a mundane, can gain +3d6 initiative from a spell. It costs 16k. You just need to buy a force 1 bonded expendable anchoring focus (3*5=15k) with force 1 Increase Reflexes +3 cast in it. |
Yeah, that is a good idea. Here she is again using that trick:
Attributes A
Race B
Resources C
Skills D
Magic E
Night One Elf
B: 3
Q: 9
S: 4
C: 7
I: 6
W: 6
Bonus Attribute: Quickness
Lightning Reflexes, lvl 3
Aptitude: Small Unit Tactics
Flaws: to taste (12 points worth)
Skills: Small Unit Tactics 6
Force 1 Bonded Expendable Anchor w/ Inc Ref +3
used Suprathyroid Gland, +1 Rea +1Qck
used Muscle Toner lvl 2, +2 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Jazz, +1d6 +2 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Kamikaze +1d6 +1 Qck
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Psyche +1 Int (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Cram, +1d6 +1 Rea (lasts 9 hours)
used Autoinjector, 1 dose Novacoke, +1 Rea (lasts 7 hours)
That's 4d6 + 10 normally, 7d6 + 14 with the drugs and 7d6 + 17 with a good SUT roll. She loses a point of reaction but gains a die for it. Not bad!
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| It's probably not useful in this exercise; but as an interesting note any character, even a mundane, can gain +3d6 initiative from a spell. It costs 16k. You just need to buy a force 1 bonded expendable anchoring focus (3*5=15k) with force 1 Increase Reflexes +3 cast in it. You take the focus, have it implanted in a body compartment or as an extremely hard to remove piece of jewelry, then say the command word. The focus will sustain the spell until it's geeked by some astral drek like a ward or it's removed from your body. |
I wanted to do this, but the guys I run with are squeemish about letting me. They say a mage would never do that because it leaves a traceable astral connection right back to the mage.
Thoughts? Workarounds?
Well the mage could bring the focus with him on an astral quest. Which would do nothing about the whole paying karma for a 1 shot item. In my opinion, completely not worth it. If you get your GM to let the wearer pay the karma for the bonding (note: still bound to the mage, but the GM allows the mage to be given karma by the wearer), it might not be sooo bad, but other than that, stinky stinky.
Kong
Kong
| QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman) |
| They say a mage would never do that because it leaves a traceable astral connection right back to the mage. |
Which, of course, most mages are really going to be thinking about.
I'd say a lot of mages would do it for some cash, and most probably wouldn't think about the negative results that could occur. Much like people who prank call from their home phones or do similar things that could get them in deep shite later.
~J
Many mages are probably perfectly legit citizens, It's force 1 magic so it's completely legal and probably not controlled strictly. Sure: Whatever megacorp you piss-off might be interested to find the mage who, as a legitimate buisnessman, would probably provide records for any corp/police people enquiring about it.
You could also get it done in a more underhand way, like the fact that a mage with anchoring might create a whole bunch of these before he initiates and changes his signature.
You could also get it done in a more underhand way, like the fact that a mage with anchoring might create a whole bunch of these before he initiates and changes his signature.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.