Yes, so was I, I suppose it implys that characters will do some mini-gestures and the like when not thinking about it (and lets face it, you're not thinking about it if you're trying to cast a spell with full spell pool and sorcery), but aren't particularily affected by being bound and gagged as then you don't need to actively think about stopping the gestures and incantations.
I suppose you could allow a character to withold sorcery or spell pool dice to lower the chance of people detecting the spell. Something like 1 die per +1 to perception TN.
Full Version: Is everyday life more difficult for a mage?
Ok so if we all agree that a mundane as no chance to know that a magic spell is in effect, unless they notice the casting or it is obvious, then we can say that a mage would only be detected by another mage/awaken?
What are the chances that a mage walking around Settle will be noticed? Since 99% of people are mundane, what are the chances?
Are all corps constantly looking for mages right? So wouldn't it be reasonable that PCs or any mage to be constantly approached by corps? Heck, you could almost say they are hunted, couldn't you? Although that leads a person to think that you would never have a street/gang mage ... why live on the street when a corp. will pay you big money?
ps: Noticing magic is all about the force of the spell and not the skill of the person doing the magic. However I don't see any reason why the mage couldn't take ever extra 2 successes, to add +1 to the tn to notice the magic.
What are the chances that a mage walking around Settle will be noticed? Since 99% of people are mundane, what are the chances?
Are all corps constantly looking for mages right? So wouldn't it be reasonable that PCs or any mage to be constantly approached by corps? Heck, you could almost say they are hunted, couldn't you? Although that leads a person to think that you would never have a street/gang mage ... why live on the street when a corp. will pay you big money?
ps: Noticing magic is all about the force of the spell and not the skill of the person doing the magic. However I don't see any reason why the mage couldn't take ever extra 2 successes, to add +1 to the tn to notice the magic.
The corps are able to trust an ex-ganger mage? They are constantly recuiting from universities and feeder sprawls/arcologies, so why would they put their trust in a ex-criminal?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The corps are able to trust an ex-ganger mage? They are constantly recuiting from universities and feeder sprawls/arcologies, so why would they put their trust in a ex-criminal? |
They don't have to trust him. They have samples and make sure he knows if he doesn't tow the line, they will fry his hoop to hell and back. Of course, they don't even have to do that if they re-program him now do they? >DISPLAY_Evil GM smile<
I said nothing about trusting a criminal mage, besides just because they are on the street doesn't mean they are criminals. And as Reaver mentioned, they don't have to trust shady mages, they only have to do their job. Consider how rare a awaken person is, as a business I wouldn't care where they come from. I would treat them all like princes and the creditable ones like gods.
Also now that I look at the rules, there is no way a person would be recruited as late as college.
In Mits on page 89, it describes astral patrolling. Assuming that corps regularly scan Settle, which they would, the tn would be 6. 2 is the base + 1 for bio mass, + 1 for background count + 2 for searching a 10,000 square meter (6.21 miles?). So the chances of a awaken person not being noticed over several years is highly unlikely.
Also now that I look at the rules, there is no way a person would be recruited as late as college.
In Mits on page 89, it describes astral patrolling. Assuming that corps regularly scan Settle, which they would, the tn would be 6. 2 is the base + 1 for bio mass, + 1 for background count + 2 for searching a 10,000 square meter (6.21 miles?). So the chances of a awaken person not being noticed over several years is highly unlikely.
10,000 square meters ~ 0.00386 square miles
259 such areas per one square mile
259 such areas per one square mile
| QUOTE |
| Also now that I look at the rules, there is no way a person would be recruited as late as college. |
Actually, it's highly possible and it does happen all the time. It's even mentioned in the the Cal Free State book if I remember. Some are going to college on grants from major corps as well. A mage caught by law enforcement might get treated the same way a really good hacker gets treated by NSA and CIA today... be recruited at low pay or go to jail.
| QUOTE |
In Mits on page 89, it describes astral patrolling. Assuming that corps regularly scan Settle, which they would, the tn would be 6. 2 is the base + 1 for bio mass, + 1 for background count + 2 for searching a 10,000 square meter (6.21 miles?). So the chances of a awaken person not being noticed over several years is highly unlikely. |
While it could be highly unlikely, would you want to risk it? Especially if its the Star? Paranoia keeps you alive. Stupidity gets you dead. Why advertise when you don't have to?
Err... Astral Patrolling is not what you think it is. 
Astral Patrolling does nothing more than let you know someone entered the area, doesn't give location, or pretty much anything else.
I'll point 2 things out to you to show you what I mean.
1) How long does it take to patrol an area?
2) How hard is it to see through a wall in the Astral Plane, and is it just as hard to see someone inside a building via Astral Patrolling?
Sphynx
Astral Patrolling does nothing more than let you know someone entered the area, doesn't give location, or pretty much anything else.I'll point 2 things out to you to show you what I mean.
1) How long does it take to patrol an area?
[ Spoiler ]
2) How hard is it to see through a wall in the Astral Plane, and is it just as hard to see someone inside a building via Astral Patrolling?
[ Spoiler ]
Sphynx
| QUOTE |
| Some are going to college on grants from major corps as well. |
err.. if they are getting a grant from a major corp., then they are basically recruited.
Are they going to give a grant to a mage for nothing? No way, after college they need to work for the corp.... at which point they never leave. To be honest I find it hard for any mage not to be working for some corp. How would you find a mentor that isn't in a corp.? If the mentor is in a corp. then they are going to recruit you.| QUOTE |
| While it could be highly unlikely, would you want to risk it? Especially if its the Star? Paranoia keeps you alive. Stupidity gets you dead. Why advertise when you don't have to? |
Risk what? I am not sure what you are talking about? Although it looks like my conversion was WAY off. So if a group of mages search an 80,000 sq meter area it would be unlike they would find a PC on a regular bases. After all .03 of a mile is not a very large area and the tn would be ~12.
So a person could walk around with a force 6 active focus and still have a small chance of being picked up. The TN would go down to 9 in a .03 mile area ... that almost seem too slim.
| QUOTE |
| How long would a search take? |
I can't believe the search would be too quick, we are talking about a huge area with a lot of people. Yes, astral plane travel is very fast, but this isn't an easy task.
From looking at the rules/guide lines you can't tell a awaken from a mundane ... seem like there should be a +tn for trying to find an awaken without foci.
| QUOTE |
| err.. if they are getting a grant from a major corp., then they are basically recruited. Are they going to give a grant to a mage for nothing? No way, after college they need to work for the corp.... at which point they never leave. To be honest I find it hard for any mage not to be working for some corp. How would you find a mentor that isn't in a corp.? If the mentor is in a corp. then they are going to recruit you. |
Not all magically active belong to a corp. Some used to a broke away. That's where some street mentors might have come from even. Some go to college because they belong to a wealthy family or are working thier ass off through college. Others learn on the streets as they go. Magically active can come from any walk of life. Those who aren't already on a sponsorship and in college are going to be actively recruited by everyone.
| QUOTE |
Risk what? I am not sure what you are talking about? Although it looks like my conversion was WAY off. So if a group of mages search an 80,000 sq meter area it would be unlike they would find a PC on a regular bases. After all .03 of a mile is not a very large area and the tn would be ~12. So a person could walk around with a force 6 active focus and still have a small chance of being picked up. The TN would go down to 9 in a .03 mile area ... that almost seem too slim. |
When you get into your car, do you put your seatbelt on or do you calculate the odds of you actually being in an accident and decide that the number is low enough you don't have to worry about wearing your seatbelt? The smart person wears his seatbelt no matter the odds cause he's not stupid.
Shadowrunning by its very nature is 'running the shadows.' Not to be seen, not drawing attention. That means being as anonymous as possible and blending in. You don't calculate odds, you just do it because it keeps you alive. Don't advertise and don't call attention to yourself. Stupidity gets you killed.
| QUOTE |
| The smart person wears his seatbelt no matter the odds cause he's not stupid. Shadowrunning by its very nature is 'running the shadows.' Not to be seen, not drawing attention. That means being as anonymous as possible and blending in. You don't calculate odds, you just do it because it keeps you alive. Don't advertise and don't call attention to yourself. Stupidity gets you killed. |
We are both talking about the same thing. Most of the information I listed is for a smart, but not paranoid awaken person, who doesn't draw attention to themselves. My point is that unless a awaken character comes form a health family, they will be hunted ...errh I am mean searched for recruitment.
Just by being awaken a character draws attention to themselves. All they have to do is live a normal life and they will be confront by corps begging to train them.
| QUOTE |
| Not all magically active belong to a corp. |
I am not suggesting all awaken people would belong to a corp. What I am saying is that working for yourself would be harder then working for a corp. Sure I am could imagine freelance mages, but whether the person works for a corp. or not, I bet you there is a profile on them. I bet that corp. espionage is really high just for stealing info a magically active people.
As for the inital point -- yes. Unless you witness the mage casting a spell and reasonably witness some sort of effect, you can't tell a mage from any other pedestrian.
Mage Employability
Corps or independent staffing agencies that provide recruits to corp HR. While mages would be a hot commodity, not every company could provide the amount of money and associated support necessary to deploy mages as part of their full-time staff.
And even if a mage is on-site, there isn't a guarantee that (s)he has combat spells, is capable of conjuring (or banishing) or any other ability that might be useful in a fight. Which means accountants are going to be amazingly reluctant to endanger an expensive asset that offers no practical benefit in the field.
Given the rarity of mages overall, I would even think it rare to find one being deployed in a sec team, given the potential for losing such a rare and difficult to replace asset. It would be easier to keep the mage at range, providing long-distance magic support to ensure the mage's safety.
Frag, shamans would be better for the amount of spirits they could drop on intruding runners without ever needing line-of-sight.
-Siege
Mage Employability
Corps or independent staffing agencies that provide recruits to corp HR. While mages would be a hot commodity, not every company could provide the amount of money and associated support necessary to deploy mages as part of their full-time staff.
And even if a mage is on-site, there isn't a guarantee that (s)he has combat spells, is capable of conjuring (or banishing) or any other ability that might be useful in a fight. Which means accountants are going to be amazingly reluctant to endanger an expensive asset that offers no practical benefit in the field.
Given the rarity of mages overall, I would even think it rare to find one being deployed in a sec team, given the potential for losing such a rare and difficult to replace asset. It would be easier to keep the mage at range, providing long-distance magic support to ensure the mage's safety.
Frag, shamans would be better for the amount of spirits they could drop on intruding runners without ever needing line-of-sight.
-Siege
| QUOTE (Mardegun) | ||||
We are both talking about the same thing. Most of the information I listed is for a smart, but not paranoid awaken person, who doesn't draw attention to themselves. My point is that unless a awaken character comes form a health family, they will be hunted ...errh I am mean searched for recruitment. Just by being awaken a character draws attention to themselves. All they have to do is live a normal life and they will be confront by corps begging to train them.
I am not suggesting all awaken people would belong to a corp. What I am saying is that working for yourself would be harder then working for a corp. Sure I am could imagine freelance mages, but whether the person works for a corp. or not, I bet you there is a profile on them. I bet that corp. espionage is really high just for stealing info a magically active people. |
It is possible to be a freelance/runner mage and still be a target for recruitment. Especially with the ability to 'reprogram' people being a viable resource. Hmmm, evil GM plans forming in mind. Mwa ha ha ha ha hack cough sputter wheeze.
While most mages are going to be a target based on being a runner and having a profile worked up on them because of thier running experience, that will be how most are known. You are right that the odds of being spotted on the street are small. The corps may not even need to do espionage. Who knows if the Johnson is already in thier pocket.
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Since it's rather unusual for people to sustain powerful spells, it's not unimaginable that a LS mage who's just doing an hour or two hour cruise over the city will manifest in front of said suspect and ask him to produce the paperwork. |
But a purely astral form, even when manifesting, still sees only in the astral, right? So they can't read the paperwork. They can tell the difference between a permit and a love-letter, but that's about it.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| But a purely astral form, even when manifesting, still sees only in the astral, right? So they can't read the paperwork. They can tell the difference between a permit and a love-letter, but that's about it. |
So the menifest mage asks the suspect to go show the paperwork to a nearby physical LS representative. Even a general observation blimp-drone should be able to check with the servers and confirm that the permit is valid and fitting for what the mage observed. (although the mage won't be able to speak directly to the blimp-drone)
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