I read about some go-gangs where they prowl the highways to raid truck merchandise amongst other things. My players are about to smuggle some goods using a Bulldog Van (for the goods) and an SUV (for additional manpower transportation).

I was wondering, how can a troll go-gang can be taken seriously ?? The gang's most probably not cybered, got good Pilot skill, probably some firearms, and why not flails to dent the van. The gang can't possibly ram the Bulldog Van (I'm assuming they're on bikes), but they will probably have an easy time following the players because of speed and handling.

I'd like to scare or challenge the players with something mundane, realistic, and without any tie to the main run, much like a random encounter.

Thoughts and ideas are welcome. Tx.

Span a few meters of monofilament wire between two of the bikes and see what happens...

This is a little dated, so ymmv.

In SR3 whenever somone brought a melee character to the table they had to pass the Troll test, a 1on1 vs a troll ganger with a baseball bat. If you couldn't take him out you threw out your sheet and went back to the drawing board. You'd be suprised how often characters failed.

Let me see. For once the go-gang can have cybered people, especially cheap stuff like muscle replacement, wired 1, and spurs. After all they can afford their motorcycles which are generally expensive.

As for guns they'll have a varied assortments, but a few cheap assault rifles with some mods isn't unlikely. Other weapons might include molotoc coctail, some sort of rams/melee weapons to aid in slowing down the opposition.

They will have difficulty taking on an armored van though . they might need an Aztechnology striker or two to accomplish that.

That's so cool, I'll need to remember that.



As for scaring the players: I don't remember clearly, but check up carefully on the rules for shooting people inside vehicles. IIRC, the armor on a vehicle is only for damage to the vehicle itself; occupants aren't normally protected (but benefit from some cover). So you can still point your guns at the driverside window and shoot into the car. I do think most windows are one-way tinted in SR, but I might be wrong.

Also, grenades under the vehicle might require a Crash Test.

Shooting the tires forcing a crash test? You could have one of the hogs have a smoke projector and a road strip ejector. HE grenades are not very expensive either.

Not to mention the troll with the claymore sword who's going to be jumping on top of said truck and stabbing through the roof in the general direction of the driver and passengers.

I just flashed on the scene from Twister where a cow flys by thier truck.

"We've got trolls."

Sometimes it's not about the base damage, but what you can do with it. http://pavao.org/shadowrun/miscellany/WWSD.png When a troll decides to jump on top of your van, they do it!

Anyway, motorcycles are cooler. Have them drop some road strips, toss HE grenades under the van. Make sticky grenades and utilize thermite/WP (or have the troll who jumped on top use it). Have a troll pull in front of the van on a motorcycle, and point backwards (one-handed) with a grenade launcher (for style).

After this goes on for awhile (long enough for style), have a modified off-road truck come roaring up. Mod it with crash harnesses and a battering ram. Seeing TROLLS strapped in with a 5pt harness should get the players sweating.

Oh, and throw in a mix of cheap ware. Wired I, Muscle Augmentation, cyber armor. All pretty inexpensive, specially 2nd hand w/ price modifiers.

And when the truck rolls in for the finale, just for fun have a troll standing in the truck bed. Make him high str + bod (with armor + strength mods), toting some hugely oversized gun (perhaps on a gyromount). Depending on how the fight is going (and what you want the result to be, go with something like:

Easy: Minigun w/ gyromount + normal bullets (scary as all get out, tons of style, but at 6P with min AP, not a huge threat to a vehicle).
Medium: Assault Cannon

Evil (with a dastardly mustache): Minigun w/ taser rounds, for the electrical damage. (Obviously where the entire budget of the gang went, at the price of those bullets.)
If you want it actually hard, you can throw AV bullets in the minigun or assault cannon.

Last time I checked, automatic fire from a hand held machine gun does not have to be accurate to hit a target like the entire van... last time I also checked most people do not like getting shot at if the only thing in the way is the chassis of their van...

Bonus points if one of them has a Trike and that trike has a mounted gun... better yet sidecars with a Troll and a Baseball Bat. I think you are underestimating the ingenuity of the average Go-Ganger, especially when their life depends on robbing people.

They might be a band of outlaws but they will definitely have a plan of attack beyond "GET 'EM!"

Keep one thing in mind : they're in for grabbing some loot - even if a gang of troll would have little trouble carrying away the wreck of a ruined armored van, scrap metal is a piss-poor loot. On the other hand, the escort is fair game for nastyness.

Some nasty things to do :
* limpet mines - fien for taking out the engine, especially if it's a shaped charge
* spraying the windshield/sensor pods with quick-setting resin. Hard to drive wen you can't see a thing. Tarpaulin can do the trick too.
* take a length of strong steel cable, with one hook on each end. Hook one end to a bumper, the other to a wheel. The cable will spool around the axle for a messy end result.

The troll gang can be as tough as you want them to be. If there happens to be a single magician in said troll gang everything changes. Unless those vans are warded they're in for trouble! Imagine a fire spirit materializing inside the thing and cleaning house!

Man, I love low-tech

All great ideas. Now I'm starting to feel that 10 trolls on bikes is going to be too much for my players

Thanks a bunch, all

By seasoned vet Shadowrunners, they may or may not be taken seriously. That all depends on how much of a threat they put together. To Joe-Schmo Public, that is some scary stuff!

However, here are a couple of ideas that you could also use:

Doble Revolution with a machine gun mounted on the side (or in a side car; I'm away from books right now, but just read the fluff for it).

Gangs are like other enterprises; there is risk-reward that they consider before hitting a target. A hardened van with obvious backup/support might be a bit much unless they were a high grade gang. If you want fun, a little scary, and annoying, then perhaps have the PCs ride up into the chaos / aftermath of the gang taking out some poor civies. Then the gang feels that their loot is threatened, or maybe they are still in the middle of the action, whatever.

It depends. Does your group have a magician with Stunball? Most of the bikers should be affected by a Force 10 Stunball. Even if the mage only gets the first 3 or 4 the rest will have trouble avoiding the crashing bikes.

You may want to read the rules about miniguns again. The full burst with such a weapon gives -14 dice for recoil, the gyromount only compensates 6 of those and since miniguns are heavy weapons the remaining -8 are doubled to -16. The troll will have serious problems hitting the broad side of a barn let alone a human being. Now a minigun mounted on a bike, is a totally different story.

The assault cannon is the only dangerous option of those three.

Just have the minigun on a mount instead. No recoil, problem solved.

Hey now! If you're going to link to my work, at least link to it on my own site.

What Would Samurai Do?

Keep in mind that the examples in that illustration are calculated on typical, non-edge using rolls for a moderately augmented human. Trolls are already a step ahead before they get cyber, particularly when it comes to running and jumping. With their +1 Reach as well, I could easily see one reaching across from the back of a speeding bike and burying a couple of ice-picks, lashed to his wrists, into the metal sides of a van, hauling himself up onto it. No game can be perfect until someone shouts "Trolls on the roof! Trolls on the roof!"

Anyway, I can do one better than the old WWSD? image in this case. Check out my Opposition Roster, page 5: Troll Go-gang. I didn't gave them what I thought was appropriate to Troll go-gangers. So whereas a regular ganger might have a light pistol in my game, go-gangers are a bit more well to do and would have heavy pistols or more likely SMGs, And these being trolls, I scaled everything up a bit so they have Remingtons, AK-97s, Rugers. Plus a variety of melee weapons. I stopped short of giving them actual lances, but several of them have makeshift spears, long-blade knives and note the pair of claymore-wielding psychos on the Thundercloud Morgan. I personally wouldn't go so far as miniguns, though. That's corp-territory in my game. Not to mention troll-adapted bikes are expensive! Still, their leader has an elephant rifle just for giggles. The biggest threat from these people is really if they get into melee with you. If you're on foot, then you may really be in trouble.

As to their tactics, I would keep them low-tech but imaginative. I'm picturing the truck being overtaken by a couple of trolls sharing a bike and the pillion rider turning round with either a can of super-fine lubricant and spilling it all over the road, or bags of paint and flour (soy-flour, of course) which he hurls at the windscreen and any visible sensors.

Any full-auto attack or crash damage on a vehicle must also be resisted by all passengers in said vehicle. If your crew doesn't have personal armor installed in their rides, they could be looking to soak lots and lots of bullets. Also, search the forum for "Murdercycle" the basic ram bike. A high body troll would only need a little passenger protection to survive the ram. The rammed car would likely take some serious hurt, as would the occupants. Just remember for crashes that it's the difference in speed which matters.

Honestly, I really do think that the go-gangs with an established rep would have one or two bigger vehicles when performing coordinated attacks or going on a full-scale paint-the-town-red rampage as opposed to just tooling around scaring wage slaves. Just having a few motorcycles is for weekenders; if you think you might end up looting a place or tussling with another go-gang, then you're going to want some muscle, fire support and some storage (Seriously, how're they gonna drag around their kegs?!). Besides, bikes break down and accidents happen, and in that case it's nice to be able toss what's left your buddy and his bike into the flatbed.

Which leads me to my suggestion: the base model pickup listed in Arsenal is too inexpensive to completely ignore as an option for gangers. It's lightly armored, but at only 12k brand new you get 14 Body. That means the truck is highly customizable, more durable than a motorcycle and can threaten stupid amounts of damage when equipped with a ram plate-- if anything I'd be a bit worried that it's too all-or-nothing in terms of threat level. Skipping the ram plate would keep the cost down and make it less likely to up and kill your players. It's slower than a bike, to be sure, but if the bikers can slow down their quarry it makes sense for the truck to move in as a firing platform for a couple of trolls standing in the flatbed with shotguns and molotovs.*


*If you're wondering why the flatbed trolls aren't tossed from the vehicle during the ramming attack, the simple answer is that this is a troll go-gang we're talking about here and rusted out troll trucks that make ramming attacks are awesome.

Trolls can Handle Heavy Weapony one-handed without too much of a Problem.
So one hand on the Bike, one hand on the HMG. Tell me you are not afraid of someone who can eat a shotgun blast to the chest and barely care, firing an HMG while being mobile on a motorbike.

Yeah, we once had a Troll rapelling from a chopper to the front of the car. It was an armored car, mind you. I opened the window and rolled a HE grenade through the windshield and ducked. The windshield became history and the Troll went flying away taking LIGHT damage, we ran the car over him and he still wouldn't fall down. Our hacker eventually took control of chopper and went into cybercombat with the rigger and sent the chopper down on the troll.

Zapper Rockets and M79B1 LAW rockets are fairly cheap.

In fact, a couple weeks ago I hit my group with some gangers. They were in a Bulldog with two sports rifles and were "sniping" at a fair distance. Take Aim to remove range penalty with a scope is awsome, as is staying out of the rest of the group's range while shooting people.

Nothing screams TROLL!!! as the boss on his trike.

That's good thinking. Trolls in flatbeds. I'm also getting Probably visions of that Top Gear episode where the presenters were driving through... Alabama? where they'd decorated each others cars with various slogans such as "Hillary for President" only with trolls in the truck that chased them, instead.



That is great!

K.

And people still wonder why i love playing Trolls.
We are BUILT for this kinda silly shit ^^
One of my Monster-Trolls under SR3 could take a Burst from a Shotgun and could still walk away without too much trouble.
Another took a Laser-Axe to the throat. AND STILL WAS ONE BOX BEFORE DEADLY!
Look up the Spike Wheels/Spikes. There's your prime example of a dangerous Troll Go-Gang.

If the go-gang is planning an ambush, instead of just a target of opportunity attack, they could also do some impressive damage by dropping things (other cars?) onto the step-van from overpasses.

Sorry Knasser. It was late, and I honestly didn't remember where it came from. It's my favorite Shadowrun example, so I wanted to include it in the thread.




I am quiet aware of the rules for Miniguns.

Since you're so worried about recoil, let's look at that. -14:
Gyromount = 6pts
Gas-Vent 3 = 3pts
Strength 14 = 3pts
Hip Pad = 1pt
Foot Anchor = 1pt

That aside, suppressive fire doesn't take recoil penalties. This is obviously not meant to be a serious threat, since the OP asked for a Random Encounter, and I listed the mini-gun variant as "Easy." Says so quiet clearly. If you still have a problem with it, weapon mounts are cheap. The minigun was intended for style.

Please stay tuned to your local Pink Mohawk network; this has been a public announcement.

mmm guys I think you're forgetting one thing...

"Additionally, the passengers gain protection from the vehicle’s chassis, adding the
Armor of the vehicle to any personal armor the characters are
wearing."

Thus you don't need personal armor in the vehicle to get nice protection to the passengers. Also, you get the bonus dice from either partial cover, good cover or total cover, depending on the vehicle.

I've just cook up a nasty nasty monobike.

Horizon Doble Revolution
SidecarX2 3000 plus 4slots (-2 for the sidecars)
Weapon Mount (Normal,External,Flexible,Remote) X2 8000 -4 slots
Weapon Mount (Normal,External,Fixed,Remote) x2 2000 -2 slots
Ammo Bins 200 -1slot
Armor (Normal) rating 20 4000 -1 slot
Rigger Adaptation 2500 -1 slot
Assembly Time Imprvmnt. 1000 -1slot
total cost 28,400Ұ

I woudl then put one LMG on each sidecar with the fexiable arche coveing fout to far side
the other two mount are on each side on the main body one with a 40 drum round GL (from the ammo bins)
the other a LMG
this would be rigged form a rigger maybe in the truck or such. myb by more than one rigger IE rigger dirving and the two front guns two other riggers on the sidecars if you drop rigger adaptation and add meta-human adjustment troll you could have this crew operated. I see this being the fire support base of a go-gang.
Very very nasty but still stop able.

If you drop the GL and its ammo bin you can pull this off on a Entertainment Systems Cyclops but you lose 2 body.

both fit the fluff quite well with maybe the cyclops version being rigged maxing a nice supirse if doped off the back of the truck

Gas Vent does not Work for the Minigun.
Foot-Anchor does not work while on the bike and not on foot to anchor yourself to the ground with your foot anchor.
Hip-Pad is also for using a Weapon with both hands i think, which is kinda hard to do on a rolling bike usually.
You are down 5 points of Recoil Compensation.
You are left with 9 points of Recoil Compensation.
That leaves 5 points of uncompensated recoil.
If that has not changed in the switch from 3rd Ed to 4th Ed, these 5 points of uncompensated recoil get doubled due to coming from a HEAVY WEAPON.
Meaning you are now at -10 Dice. Add in the fact that both vehicles are moving fast, which is a -2 on both sides i think.
Then add in the fact that your shootist is a bit preoccupied with trying to keep his bike under control at the same time. Another -2 i think.
And trolls CAN shoot heavy weapons one handed, but they still get a malus to their dice pool. Either -1 or -2 again.
Yes, you are coming closer to -20 dice allready.

@Dumori: would a sidecar not basically ruin the entire premise of a mono-bike? O.o
if you go with the usual 2 wheeled bike, you have now 3 tires upon which your bike rests.
Basically, yes, you have now a mobile heavy weapons plattform/tripod.
If you go with a monobike, you have now one big wheel and one smaller wheel on both sides.
It can tip over to the front and to the back now, right? o.O
Furthermore it negates the bikes bigger mobility and also takes away it's ability to fit where a car won't.
Wanna go silly? Look at the rules. Is there anything in there stating you can not take a sidecar for a trike? ^^
Give the sidecars 2 more wheels so they form their own smaller trikes again and make them detacheable *grins*

I thought minigun wielding troll was on the bed of a truck? Maybe I misread.

both on a truck or on a bike whee suggested.

Maybe i overread ^^#
Then the foot anchor and the hip pad can, of course, apply.
this means 2 points more of recoil compensation.
This still means 4 points of uncompensated recoil.
This still means it'S doubled to -8 dice for recoil alone.
A bit more manageable, yes.
Of course, go with the second foot anchor in the other foot.
And who said you can only fit one anchor in one foot?

I'm pretty sure the rules do. I'm not at the book at a moment, but when I looked it up a couple of hours ago, I'm 98% positive that it says 1 per foot. (I'll check shortly.)

Yes, the Troll is in the bed of the truck. That was explicit.

Could you please cite where it says mini-gun and gas-vent are not compatable? I believe I missed it.

Added: The point still stands. The mini-gun was meant to be fired using suppressive fire. I appologize for not saying so explicitly. I thought that:
A) Since I only listed a gyromount, and left out any other recoil modifications, people would get that I was talking about the firing option where recoil doesn't matter.
B) The OP wanted a "Random Encounter." Shooting a player with a concentrated burst, for +14 damage, is not "random encounter" material.

Spraying a van down with suppressive fire, possibly shooting out windows, but at the very least keeping players from sticking their heads out, is cool cinematically. Specially while standing in a truck bed.

Added Added: Now this was -my- turn not to be able to read. I thought Stahlseele was saying you could put more than one anchor in each foot. Oops.

Just checked, and yes, Augmentation page 40, near the end of the entry does explicitly state that only one anchor can be installed per foot. For recoil comp they're just incompatible with bi- or tri-pods, and probably would count as such when trying to stack more mods for recoil comp.

Arsenal says nothing about what is allowed, and what is not allowed for gas vents and miniguns. Machine guns in general are explicitly denied silencers and sound suppressors (Arsenal, page 29), though. Nothing in the errata.

In this chase I'm choosing to take Augmentation litterally, since Arsenal came out after Augmentation (I believe). Since Arsenal lists what mods do and don't stack with one another, and it left out foot anchors, I'm going to assume that the only things they don't stack with is bi/tri-pods. Also in Arsenal I believe foot anchors are mentioned in the Military Armor section. I haven't yet looked to see if they mentioned anything there.

And all I know, regarding miniguns and gas-vents, is an ongoing debate here on Dumpshock argueing about a miniguns multiple barrels and gas-vent compatibility. However technically they are a machine gun, and machine gun can take gas-vents. I'm assuming that, since Stahlseele is speaking so specifically, maybe a Dev or Freelancer mentioned something here on the board. (Or I just missed something, which is always possible.)

Wasn't there something about miniguns being unable to accept barrel mounted accessoire?
Also, there IS a rule against more than one foot anchor per foot? O.o
I thought the only limitation was the capacity cost for cyber-feet.
I thought natural feet could take in 2 of them . . of course, it's been some weeks/months since ilast read the SR4 Books <.< . .

Just checked, to make sure I wasn't spouting gibberish. Phew, squeeked by this time.

Also I checked Arsenal. While it lists foot anchors under Military Armor upgrades, all it says is "operates like the cyberware, see Augmentation."

No mention of incompatibility in the actual minigun weapon entry.
I don't see anything in the minigun sidebar.

There of course is the (logical) issue of "1 gas-vent -> many barrels." But until the devs do something about that, it's really a "up to the GM" situation. There are several ways it can be handled.

Hrm, i thought i remembered that to be a bit different . .

Just a note.. if they're firing miniguns from a flatbed truck why not simply get a pintle mount for it to fasten on the truck? Voila no recoil!

Also, while this isn't directly related to the original question, but I am under the impression that drugs and cyber or bioware do stack, with regards to stats. Is this true? And drugs can't push you over the augmented stat max, correct? (So far, that's soley the domain of possession spirits, as far as I know. Just double checkin.)

Reason I mention it, is because (for a high level enounter) a Troll running on K-10 could hit 18 Str, if drugs stack with bio/cyber, and he had the surge/gene/quality bonuses to Str. (Alternatively, a high strength Troll, possessed by a Ogoun loa (instead of on K-10 with all the mods) would be a really scary/cool centerpiece for a scene.)

Far as i remember(take it with a grain of salt, seeing how unreliable my memory seems to be) yes, they do indeed stack.

Simply style my friend, simply style. The weapon mount is completely logical, and also super cool. I just love the idea of a Troll, standing in a truck bed, rock-n-rollin with his minigun. Heck, can you imagine them pulling alongside, the Troll looks over, grins, and the whir sound starts?

oh yeah..

Instead, the troll grins, looks over, and drops it into the pintle mount as the whirring begins.

Certain drug and cyberware effects stack. Well, pretty much the only exception to that is reaction enhancing cyberware to keep IP stacking down.

If they've got good Pilot skills, they can make an opposed test to force the van into a Crash Test. In fact, it's easy.

Assume you have five trolls on Harleys. When you make the opposed test for position, the trolls inflict a -10 to the van driver. Additionally, since they're faster, they get +3 to their dice pools. So, you can pretty much assume that they get to set the engagement range. Now, all they need to do is pull off a Cut Off maneuver, forcing the van driver to make a crash test. Again, they're faster, so they inflict a -2 penalty to the van driver's dice pool. He might be able to beat one or two of the trolls, but all five? And since he's severely penalized in trying to run away, even if they miss, they'll just do it again next turn. It won't be long until they force the van off the road.

And that's when you give 'em the trucks.

Well, if you want to kill them all, anyway.

Go pickup truck!

Won't the van simply be able to ram the bikes?