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tete
WOW I didn't know that ever came out but I was over on drivethru to pick up my street sam and fields of fire and low and behold they have a 1e core book! If they keep releasing the old stuff they might end up with a couple grand from me alone!
I NEED the 2e Core and Rigger 3 Revised Guys!
MJBurrage
I would expect that Rigger 3 Revised is the most desired PDF still unavailable for out of print sourcebooks. I know that I would buy a copy as soon as it became available.
Caadium
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Mar 24 2010, 09:12 PM) *
I would expect that Rigger 3 Revised is the most desired PDF still unavailable for out of print sourcebooks. I know that I would buy a copy as soon as it became available.


Given the breaks I've taken from the game please help me out here. Why would Rigger 3 Revised be so desirable?
Tachi
QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 24 2010, 11:50 PM) *
Given the breaks I've taken from the game please help me out here. Why would Rigger 3 Revised be so desirable?

IMO, mostly because there is not a Rigger4 yet. The vehicle/drone build rules don't exist for SR4 at this time, only modification. Having R3R would let you make your own 4e rules, plus, more vehicles and drones.
Caadium
Ahh. The systems are so different between SR3 and SR4 that I don't know that I'd want to try to create my own versions of those complex rules that didn't really work IMO.
Tachi
That could be, I'm not personally very familiar with SR3. But, I have spent quite a bit of time wishing I had rules to build my own drones/vehicles. Having a place to start would be nice, even if the rules were convoluted and difficult, I would at least have reference of what is necessary for success and could use the SR3 to SR4 PC conversion document for making the necessary adjustments. It might be a lot of work, but I'd still enjoy the process.
Caadium
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 24 2010, 11:15 PM) *
That could be, I'm not personally very familiar with SR3. But, I have spent quite a bit of time wishing I had rules to build my own drones/vehicles. Having a place to start would be nice, even if the rules were convoluted and difficult, I would at least have reference of what is necessary for success and could use the SR3 to SR4 PC conversion document for making the necessary adjustments. It might be a lot of work, but I'd still enjoy the process.


Gotcha. Well, you can't have the hardcopy off of my bookshelf. Sorry. wink.gif
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 25 2010, 01:00 AM) *
IMO, mostly because there is not a Rigger4 yet.


Wouldn't Rigger4 herald the end of 4th Edition SR?



-karma
Dread Moores
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 25 2010, 02:00 AM) *
IMO, mostly because there is not a Rigger4 yet. The vehicle/drone build rules don't exist for SR4 at this time, only modification. Having R3R would let you make your own 4e rules, plus, more vehicles and drones.


Honestly, this is something I actually prefer. I always found Rigger 3, well, slightly broken.
hobgoblin
my understanding is that there are no plans for any kind of design rules, period.

both the weapon design and vehicle design rules in previous editions had issues with creating high powered gear for less then what the pre-existing gear would cost. Or they would basically result in gear that made no sense what so ever (supersonic van, anyone?).
Professor Evil Overlord
QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 24 2010, 09:50 PM) *
Given the breaks I've taken from the game please help me out here. Why would Rigger 3 Revised be so desirable?


Because Rigger 3 (unrevised) was so full of errors that they literally printed a different edition of the book to fix it. The errata file for Rigger 3 was around twenty pages long. And was absolutely necessary to use the book. Most of the modification rules were completely changed by the errata. The revised version included all of the errata right in the main text, so no need to mark up your copy of the book (something that's hard to do to a PDF). For people who still use SR3 it's pretty much essential for a vehicle or drone heavy game.
Brol_The_Mighty
After reading this thread, I had to look back into my collection of the PDF's, and sure enough, I've got the 3e Rigger book, titled revised. biggrin.gif
Professor Evil Overlord
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 24 2010, 10:22 PM) *
both the weapon design and vehicle design rules in previous editions had issues with creating high powered gear for less then what the pre-existing gear would cost. Or they would basically result in gear that made no sense what so ever (supersonic van, anyone?).


I completely agree. It was a clunky system that just didn't work. And since there were no weapon modification rules you basically had to design a new weapon even if you just wanted to modify an existing one. Even if game balance wasn't an issue, the current modification rules are quicker, easier, produce reasonably priced equipment, and can just as easily be called design rules. The SR4 modification rules are enough of an improvement I've even used them in SR3 games.
Tachi
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Mar 25 2010, 12:20 AM) *
Wouldn't Rigger4 herald the end of 4th Edition SR?

Only if you're superstitious, I'm not.
QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 25 2010, 12:19 AM) *
Gotcha. Well, you can't have the hardcopy off of my bookshelf. Sorry. wink.gif

But, but, but... pwease? wobble.gif
QUOTE (Dread Moores @ Mar 25 2010, 12:22 AM) *
Honestly, this is something I actually prefer. I always found Rigger 3, well, slightly broken.

Like I said, I wouldn't know. I was just hoping for a starting point.
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 25 2010, 12:22 AM) *
my understanding is that there are no plans for any kind of design rules, period.

I guess I'll just have to deal, and start making shit up then.
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
both the weapon design and vehicle design rules in previous editions had issues with creating high powered gear for less then what the pre-existing gear would cost. Or they would basically result in gear that made no sense what so ever (supersonic van, anyone?).

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. GM discretion can go a loooooong way in such situations, it just requires the GM to have enough spine to say NO. But yeah, I see your point.
Tachi
QUOTE (Brol_The_Mighty @ Mar 25 2010, 12:32 AM) *
After reading this thread, I had to look back into my collection of the PDF's, and sure enough, I've got the 3e Rigger book, titled revised. biggrin.gif

How does one tell the difference between R3 and R3R. Does it actually have "Revised" on the cover or in the credits?
hobgoblin
the revised version was printed by fanpro, not fasa.
Tachi
Well, I just dug through some PDFs I inherited from a friend yesterday when he "officially retired" from RPGs, and I think the one I have is R3 then. Yep, FASA SKU 7910. Unfortunate. Oh well, I guess I can still use it, somehow, to write my own. Until now I never realized how big his PDF library actually was. 112 PDFs with only a few duplicates. Damn.
MYST1C
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 25 2010, 07:22 AM) *
both the weapon design and vehicle design rules in previous editions had issues with creating high powered gear for less then what the pre-existing gear would cost.

I once created, just as a thought-experiment, a burst-capable bullpup hunting rifle with shortened barrel and 40 rounds magazine. It lacked full-auto but owned any assault rifle concerning damage, range and weight - and it had the concealability of an SMG...
Brol_The_Mighty
Well crap, the one I've got has been published by FASA frown.gif
Tachi
I feel your pain.
Stahlseele
Isn't Arsenal basically supposed to be the rigger book for 4th ed?
Tachi
Could be, though I thought it was supposed to be just gear and such.

I'd still like to see a Smuggler's Havens/vehicles kind of book though.
hobgoblin
well, arsenal do have modification rules for both vehicles and weapons.

grab any of the vehicles from arsenal or SR4 and then apply the modification rules to get something that fits better for your needs. Heck, one should note that arsenal list alternate names for each vehicle, so think of them more like examples of classes of vehicles more then single vehicles.

also, was there not a hint dropped about a pdf of vehicles being in the works (if CGL gets rolling again)?
Dumori
My FLGs still has a 1st or maybe 2nd ed rule book mint on its shelves Ł15.99 iirc.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 25 2010, 10:45 AM) *
also, was there not a hint dropped about a pdf of vehicles being in the works (if CGL gets rolling again)?

30 Rides – it's most likely one of the interim PDF-only products.
Larsine
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 25 2010, 08:25 AM) *
Well, I just dug through some PDFs I inherited from a friend yesterday when he "officially retired" from RPGs, and I think the one I have is R3 then. Yep, FASA SKU 7910. Unfortunate. Oh well, I guess I can still use it, somehow, to write my own. Until now I never realized how big his PDF library actually was. 112 PDFs with only a few duplicates. Damn.


Hopefully it's not 112 Shadowrun PDFs, since there has never been 112 Shadowrun PDFs published.

Lars
Tachi
QUOTE (Larsine @ Mar 25 2010, 04:26 AM) *
Hopefully it's not 112 Shadowrun PDFs, since there has never been 112 Shadowrun PDFs published.

Lars

No, it's not all Shadowrun, plus, some of it is PDFs generated by people here on Dumpshock. Quite a few are Shadowrun though. How many Shadowrun PDFs are there from all the editions? Any idea? WAG?
Rotbart van Dainig
Officially? Those on BattleShop.
Pirated? A whole lot more.
Tachi
Oh... ok.
wusselpompf
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 25 2010, 11:50 AM) *
Officially? Those on BattleShop.
Pirated? A whole lot more.


[disclaimer] this post is not ment to encourage or promote pircacy or copyright infrictions.[/disclaimer]


when I was recently downloading some of the old AD&D FR-stuff from one of the web-filehosters, I stumbled upon some files which were hungarian translations for a lot of SR2 and SR3 books. And I gotta say, I was really amazed, those hungarian fans (supposedly) transfered some old scans of the fasa books into completly translated, ocr'ed and newly edited versions of the respective books - all as the work of fans for fans.
it's still illegal (I guess), but I was just thrilled by all the work they put into it and how great the outcome was, and also I don't think that this kind of stuff doesn't hurt CGL or wizkids.

[hope this post does not violate the board policies]
Arclight
Maybe it was done by the same guys that did the Hungary Sourcebook?

I always hated people arriving to conventions with copied books. As if it'd cost a fortune to play SR...
wusselpompf
QUOTE (Arclight @ Mar 25 2010, 01:36 PM) *
Maybe it was done by the same guys that did the Hungary Sourcebook?


can't tell, I don't own that SB.

that's the translation-credits for the SR3 Quick Start Rules:
"A magyar változatot fordította és szerkesztette:
xxx „Skull” xxx
Elérhetőség:
E-mail xxx
Weblap xxx
A fordításból semmilyen anyagi vagy egyéb hasznom nem származott."

edited
Rotbart van Dainig
You really should remove that reference. If only for the poor guy.
wusselpompf
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 25 2010, 02:23 PM) *
You really should remove that reference. If only for the poor guy.


done, I actually only postet it, because it made me think that if the actually postet all that personal info that his translations are somehow legal... but I guess you're right wink.gif
nezumi
If memory serves though, the FASA R3 vehicles are fine. It's just the creation rules which are fubared (and the EW rules, which are functional, if incredibly complex - but that didn't change with R3R).

I haven't seen the Rigger's Black Book (the SR2 version) in ages and ages. I seem to recall it having much cooler pictures, but nothing else. Since actual vehicle stats are basically interchangeable between 2 and 3, 2 should also work nicely for your game.
fistandantilus4.0
I bought the old Rigger Black Book just for the eye candy. Best eye candy book though was Prime Runners though. RBB had the old damage codes though.
Cergorach
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Mar 25 2010, 03:17 PM) *
I bought the old Rigger Black Book just for the eye candy. Best eye candy book though was Prime Runners though. RBB had the old damage codes though.

I miss those catalog style SR books.
Caadium
QUOTE (Professor Evil Overlord @ Mar 24 2010, 11:26 PM) *
Because Rigger 3 (unrevised) was so full of errors that they literally printed a different edition of the book to fix it. The errata file for Rigger 3 was around twenty pages long. And was absolutely necessary to use the book. Most of the modification rules were completely changed by the errata. The revised version included all of the errata right in the main text, so no need to mark up your copy of the book (something that's hard to do to a PDF). For people who still use SR3 it's pretty much essential for a vehicle or drone heavy game.


I know the differences between the books, I've got both in hard copy. I just wasn't sure why Rigger would be the most prized PDF over others.
nezumi
I think part of it is also perceived scarcity. Rigger 3 came out just before FASA shut its doors, so there's a sense of it being more rare.
tete
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 25 2010, 02:32 PM) *
I haven't seen the Rigger's Black Book (the SR2 version) in ages and ages.


You mean SR1, SR2 had Rigger 2. RBB was the book where you could turbocharge an electric engine *snicker*, I knew what they ment but the idea of adding a turbo to an electric engine was hilarious!
Caadium
Although there was more material included in Rigger 2 (and then R3), RBB was always fun because of the layout. I liked that SR1 layout on the datapad with comments below each item and a big picture on the top. It wasn't as space efficient as the later books, but it was fun. I do like the hybrid way Arsenal and other books have gone about it (as opposed to the big vehicle tables at the back of R3), but that old layout was fun to read. For price purposes I understand why the change though.
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