Coca-cola. Pepsi co. Macdonald's. Wal-mart. Starbucks. Microsoft.

All of these companies are AA megacorps in their own right, and if the Shadowrun timeline comes to pass, any one of them or all of them have the potential to become AAA-level. So what happened to them? Did they get bought by Aztechnology? Did they go down with the Crash? Are they AA corps still?

I would guess that FASA/WizKids/Catalyst deliberately avoided bringing real corps into the canon, to prevent potential lawsuits.

But they did "Fuchi". Aha

And StarKaf and Microdeck.

First of all, none of these qualify as megacorps. They lack the diversity that makes a corp.

As far as I know, Microsoft went down in the Crash and turned into MicroDeck, which has the reputation of making poor software (and maybe hardware). I seem to recall reading in one of the latest book something about them getting better.

Microdeck had a proto Otaku with William Bonney Gates the 2nd or 3rd i think.

Microsoft's crash creates the Redmond barrens (they practically own the area - SR1's Redmond barrens was a big "take that" to Microsoft). Frank Trollman did something about the Cola Wars - Pepsi is an Aztech brand now while Coke is owned by the CAS government, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if this is canon though.

However, as Blade already pointed out, these do not really qualify as proto-megacorps. Currently (especially after the last financial crisis) it seems unlikely that these behemoths will ever come into existence, but the big holding companies like American Investment have the most potential IMHO. Maybe global industry players with a broad portfolio like General Dynamics, Honeywell or Siemens.

Vodafone < =

Can't forget good old Saeder-Krupp, born out of BMW. Also, with Pepsi owning Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, and KFC, I could easily see Aztechnology, the NERPS king, as having bought Pepsico.

Isn't Walmart in SR Kong-Walmart? I seem to remember it being called that somewhere. I always thought companies like GE or Honeywell or Seimens were far more likely to become the megacorps of SR, rather than one trick ponies like Coke or Pepsi. Oh yea and there is a reference to the Cola Wars in one of the intro stories in Street Magic so I suppose that's kind of Cannon.

Look into entities like the Blackstone Investment Group. They don't publicly relabel their acquisitions but they own are fairly diverse( to the best of my knowledge) array of companies.

I thought MS got bought up by some other minor corp (sort of like Transys Neuronet), which got brought into Fuchi, which then split up.

Starbucks wasn't really around at the time of writing, and, like McDonald's, isn't a megacorp.

Nestle probably got wrapped into S-K.

While we're not talking AAA, invest in everything down to adult diapers for Trolls, megas here you can't really discount the sheer awesome power of both product distribution and market share some of these corporations have.

Coca cola is so pervasive in the world that there are developing countries whose populations saw its logo before any other Western logo, the Red Cross one included. It's powerful, something they identify with, and even in some cases want to go to the great beyond with.

McDonalds is the single largest distributor of food in the world. Not the US Army, not the World Health Organization, blooming McDonalds. Now while it's a sad commentary on society in general that there are 31000 McDonalds locations, that's the power of branding. I mean the golden arches even batter down ideological barriers... they have a McDonald's in the Museum of Communism in Prague of all places.

Along with McDonalds we have Starbucks, that has 16k plus locations. They're a bloody virus. Hell, there is an intersection that has three locations on its corners, and there's one in a bookstore just up the street. Pretty soon you won't be able to cop a dump without a guy in the restroom offering you a vent soy machiatto.

...and my personal favorite brand (though sadly owned by a larger company now, which would be the mega in this case) is Guiness. Not only does it virtually have a country that identifies with it (ok, so there are plenty of other good beers in Ireland, and Murphy's stout is fantastic, but it doesn't have the power of brand), but there was a time when it had 95% market share in the entire continent of Africa. Their marketing was so powerful there that the character invented for a series of ads ended up in his own full length motion picture.

While the power of these corporations isn't always obvious, they are pervasive, and a lot goes on behind the scenes. I'd say they would easily survive, and have at least A status in the 6th World. Of course the two crashes could change that.

As said above, Microsoft became Microdeck, as early as the good old First edition Seatle Source. In that book, they're a leader in software engineering. The story went a different way in Matrix, with Microdeck focusing on low-price, low-quality hardware after the 29 Crash (remember around the time Matrix got out, Microsoft was selling the first force-feedbak joystick...). Seattle 2072 still has them around.

Also in First edition, The Neo-Anarchist Guide to North America speaks about Coca-Cola Company HQ in Atlanta, with the company remaining within the top 500.

Pepsi, McDonald's and Starbucks didn't, as far as I remember, appeared in SR products. Wal-Mart is hinted at in corp names like NetMart and KongMart in some books (much more hilarious is "S-Kea" furnitures in the Sprawl Survival Guide if you ask me).

Nestlé isn't part of Saeder-Krupp (yeah, really, there are other corps in Europe, you can trust me on this one). They're part of Zeta-ImpChem.

Theres a picture in the SR4 core book (NOT SR4A) that features "Ares Wal-Mart"

One day, I'll finish updating my corporate index with SR4 books (Emergence, page 47 !). Yeah, one day. I usually forget to check the illos though.

I am with Blade on this, the aforementioned corps just don't have the awesome footprint that megacorps do. With that said...I think that in RL there is an upward limit to just how large a corporation can become and still operate at a profit. If there is an upward limit to the size of a geopolitical entity (and I believe that there is) why not have the same limitations applied to corps.

But for the sake of the game...I love megacorps!

Nowadays, the main issue diversified conglomerates face is the dislike the markets have for them. Investors and speculators try to guess how business will evolve. The more diversified a conglomerate get, the harder it becomes to foresee how it will dabble. For instance, Shiawase dividends in the coming years will depend on Shiawase Atomics signing deal to build nuclear plants, Shiawase Envirotech signing and running municipal and private waste processing contracts, Shiawase Biotech selling new drugs and implants, and many other, unrelated, elements concerning each sector the corp is present in.
If nobody can give a reliable estimation combining all those factors, nobody will buy their shares, and the market value will go down, limiting the company capacity to fund its activity, be it by loan or share emission.

Of course, in Shadowrun 1) there are big expert system to analyze complex market data 2) megacorporate shareholding is so concentrated that share emission must be pretty rare anyway 3) Zurich-Orbital Gemeinshaft Bank work is to loan money the AAA (and AA).

WHAT PAGE. I MUST KNOW.

The megacorps, as they were conceptualized in SR1/1989 are based on Japanese keiretsu, so the closest thing you will find in real life are companies like Mitsubishi. Yeah, they make cars. They also make just about every thing else (or the components), are built around a central bank, and even operate private universities.

Nath makes a good point about speculation, but I've always gotten the impression that a mega's real market base is its own employees. They exist just to produce stuff for themselves in a kind of Orwellian "consumption --> production --> consumption" kind of situation. The basic premise of the game (i.e.- runners steal info to give one corp an advantage over another in a competitive market) makes less sense, but then the AAA corps don't make much sense otherwise...

Oh, and you should definitely update your corp list, Nath. That is one of the handiest fan-made resources I've ever found.

That just about says it all.

Actually, its interesting that the closest thing to mega-corps in the real world, at least that I have seen, are the South Korean Chaebol. Many of the largest, Samsung, LG, Hyundai, might be known for one or two things, but in reality have a ton of diversity. Many of these incorporate manufacturing, heavy industry, construction, finance, advertising/PR, consumer goods, etc under one roof. Interestingly enough, many of them are linked by marriage, with a child of a top executive of one marrying the child of a top executive of another (and within the divisions of a single Chaebol) as a relatively commonplace occurrence.

Wow, that's some fascinating stuff. But there are big differences between a business to consumer company that lives and dies by its public image and a business to business outfit. Many really big movers and shakers do not care about advertising and brand recognition because the right people need to know them if they want to achive anything. While these Africans may worship the almighty Coke, their government sells the diamonds they dig up to a company they have never heard about for more money than all soda companies combined make in their country.
Also, there are other companies who actively try to keep a low profile (*cough* Halliburton *cough*).



I envision megacorps to be closer to countrys and as such, the stolen secrets have political clout as well. They need good relations with the nations where they are physically located as well as trade agreements for import/export. Uncovering environmental pollution scandals can seriously damage the goodwill of your neighbors, while leaked financial information may allow your competition to undercut you in deals with other countrys. And as Aztechnology just had to find out in LA, trustworthy allies can be more important than financial power when it's about politics. It's the cold war all over again but this time the arms race is an economic one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp

GE used to build just about anything ya can name. they still build alot. oh and they make loans.

Too true about GE, my employer does some work for some of there divisions.

Oh no! Not that evil Halliburton! Is it 2006 again?

on smaller corps that could be considered policlubs: ACORN is getting into the shell game of claiming to go out of business when all they are really doing is reorganizing so they don't have a name with a bad history.

Well, that's the point. I bet they have always tried to stay out of the news because they had anticipated the PR backlash that was likely to occur. It's a conscious decision not to shout it from the rooftops that you have an ex-president on your payroll. Take their Russian competitor Gazprom in contrast, who've got Germany's former head of state and parade him around like Ronald McDonald.

I still push for Disney as one of the closest companies (that we've heard of) to being a mega-corp.

It's in many countries, tt has diverse holdings, and it is a bunch of smaller corps, tied together by an umbrella corporation. (Each of the Disney parks, for example, are their own corporation. As is Disney media, who have the movies, for example.) Plus it has amazing PR. I believe Mickey is one of the ten most recognized symbols in the world (along with Coke, Santa, and the Red Cross).

There are sneaky companies out there that own a TON of stuff (or less things, but insane amounts of money). But since we're playing Shadowrun, we have to note that many companies, for example Aztec and Horizon, are built on their PR.

If a modern company doesn't have gross sales equal to the GDP of at least Brazil it isn't a megacorp. Since the number of companies with two trillion (1*10^12) dollars in sales is a grand total of zero I think it's reasonable to say that there are none.

Royal Dutch Shell had revenues equal to the GDP of South Africa, Wall-Mart equaled Columbia. But 400 some billion is a long way from the 7 trillion of the PRC.

This is interesting, because I've actually been running it where it's Coca-Cola and related prospects that the Azzies own. I was inspired by all the stuff tying Coke to violence against union leaders in Colombia and things like that, and with the Azzies being big down there and a typical Bad Corp, it seemed natural. So the anti-Azzie Mayan shaman on our team actually likes to plan anti-Aztech hits from the safety of the local Taco Bell, since the people who own that place sure aren't going to intervene. I don't think I ever made it clear who owns Pepsi. I mean, they've proven themselves pretty media-savvy at several points in my memory, so Horizon crossed my mind, but that might be a bit odd, considering Horizon's focus and its newness.

While modern companies may not be independant Mega's, its more than realistic to belive they would have been absorbed and folded into a Mega and still operate their own brand. Most people wouldnt even notice the diference. The average person does not assiciate Blizzard Entertainment with Activision, much less Vivendi.

I think someone else mentioned General Electric ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric ). Theres a real world varied portfolio for you. If they were not A or AA class on their own, that would be stunning.

We know General Motors and NASA were taken into Ares.

p 221 (SR4) showing the image of what life looks like through AR strongly suggests Aztechnology took Wal Mart. Their corp description fits that too as the worlds leader in consumer products.

I usually just put any modern companies that would have survived in another mega corp. Mccy Ds? Aztech. Pepsico? Ares. General Mills? Aztech. etc.

And evil...

Amusingly, Ares is a real world company and they do in fact make guns.

~10 years ago my little brother had a Fujitsu-Siemens PC with an Aztech sound card...

Gazprom has the former head of government of Germany (Gerhard Schröder, German Chancellor 1998-2005). The German head of state is the President.

Sorry, my bad. Thanks for the correction.

Disney is definitely a AA or AAA. they are outside local govt control and can exercise eminent domain.

Plus, they have Disney's head in a jar just waiting for a breakthrough in technology to go Phoenix Down on him. (Hey, this actually a VERY GOOD IDEA, an AA corp run by a cyberzombie )

And Disney has bomb squads and SWAT teams. The dudes you see in the park are the "corp sec" (rent-a-cop) security that runners buldoze over all the time. Those parks are guarded like state government buildings (and some federal).

However they are not outside the control of local government. France completely hosed Disney over when they were building Disneyland Paris (now EuroDisney, I believe). It's why you can find pierced cast members with pink hair at their park.

I'm actually suprised that in Florida, Disney World wasn't made it's own county. It owns 95% of one county (there are only something like 300 citizens living in that county officially), and a large portion of the one next door. (I'm suprised the state didn't say "screw it" and just let them run amock in their own county, to stop messing with the other ones.)

Anyway, there are no AAA level corps in the real world. However, isn't the point of this thread to discuss whether there are any in existance, and which AA level corps (like Disney, among others) could theoretically grow into a AAA, given the right circumstances?

P.S. And yes, there is the of course the resurrection of Uncle Walt to consider. Whether you go for the "head in a jar" theory, or the full body freeze (which I support).

No, Disney relies on the local PDs/sheriff for armed security. The Disney guys are unarmed. They could have formed their own PD, but they didn't. Not that the they don't have a lot of pull with the PDs...

You have it backwards: It was called "Euro Disney Resort" in the beginning (1992-1994), then changed name to "Disneyland Resort Paris".

I liked it when Mars renamed itself to MASTERFOOD. Had that diabolical ring to it

Actually, there are tons of AAA corps in the real world. It's a credit rating, and part of the whole recent economic collapse was the number of companies with AAA ratings that were over-exposed.

Side note on Disney, they were given permission to build their own nuclear reactor in Epcott. They haven't taken advantage of it, but they still have, by act of Congress, the rights to do so.

http://www.pepsico.com/Company/Our-Brands.html

A list of brands owned by Pepsico. Quite a list of snacks and drinks.

Coca=cola is mentioned in the original Shadows of North America under the listing for Atlanta. Also there is Hisato-Turner Broadcasting as an obvious reference to Ted Turner's companies.

In Shadowrun, a megacorporation may receive AAA rating if the existing AAA consider they weights so much in world economy and geopolitics that they must be involved in decision-taking regarding all megacorporate business. That's somehow a new occurrence of the "too big to fall" principle. Those corps must have a voice on the court and discount rate from Zurich-Orbital Gemeinshaft Bank because one of them ending on the wrong side of a court decision or getting short on cash would thrown a bunch of countries into severe economical crisis, millions of corporate citizens suddenly left stateless with equally worthless corp scrip, and a lot of military gear out of control.

AA status is granted following similar considerations, albeit on a smaller scale. Corporate extraterritoriality serves one purpose : preventing government from interfering with free trade. The CAS government could require Lone Star to share police files from UCAS and Québec ; The German gov could forbid Saeder-Krupp to operate oil rigs in Iran ; the French gov could block a legit takeover attempt against Esprit Industries, and so on.

In this regards, the corps should want all corporations, no matter how small, to be extraterritorial. However, as said above, when an extraterritorial corp goes out of business, a lot of problem arise. That's why the Corporate Court should only grant extraterritoriality to long-established corporations, well-diversified and able to survive minor to medium crisis.

My two Yokogawa scrip.

Now, why couldn't Aztechnology own both...?

Disney does run their own govt on a county level. The state did basically just say screw it and let them run their own municipality.

Technically the "Reedy Creek Improvement District" is the governing body for Disney World, though county sales taxes still apply. (Ok, it's technically the Walt Disney World Resort). Police are provided by Orange and Osecola County Sheriff's Deputies, Disney just has unarmed security. I believe that Disney could, in theory, create their own police department, but they prefer to have someone else do this.

Disneyland police are provided by Anaheim PD IIRC. Again, they could have created their own PD back in the day but preferred to have someone else do this.

So in ShadowRun terms Disney is seattle and the local PD's are Lone Star Security.

No, it's better then that. Disney is part of the county and town. Disney doesn't pay them to enforce the law, that is just what LE does. It's like Seattle getting the Washington State Police to be the Seattle police. For free.

I understand that Disney does pay the Sheriff for deputies to work OT on Disney property, but the Sheriff has a basic duty to provide LE.