Hehe, yeah, I think all runners should be required to carry one of these, because there is apparently nothing it can't do.

My 1950s German Entrenching Tool is quite useful. I've used it as a shovel (Duh!), a spade, a pick, and a seat.

I don't know that I'd want to use the Chinese shovel as a seat. It looked like it had alot of sharp edges. Actually I don't know that I'd want to carry it at all, as it seemed kinda dangerous (I'm surprised they didn't list weapon as one of its uses). I'd also never use it for tightening, as the demonstrator looks (and sounds) like he managed to cut himself on the sharp edge.

My German Entrenching Tool can turn at a 90° angle with the spade head or the pick head. It also comes with a leather cover.

A friend of mine who had a similar model (Canadian, I think, rather than German) called it the "Safety", as he used it for home defense.

As someone pointed out to me once, sharpening the bayonet is illegal, sharpening the entrenching tool is just fine...

And on a lighter note, i think the entrenching tool is the close combat weapon of choice for the axis side in call of duty

I think some of the not yet replaced manuals for new recruits of the german army still have the famous"spaten frei" somewhere in there . .

Everybody knows what to do when it's "Klappspaten frei" time...and many instructors have shit their pants when playing surprise attackers and suddenly having a spade-wielding horde come charging towards them

Uh, tales told by (ex-)conscripts. How interesting.

I'm a draft dodger, just had an instructor as roommate

i did civil services instead of the bundeswehr . .
but i know enough people who are or were in the armed forces that i could open up my own mercenary company <.<

I'm one of the few civilians that are kind to Vets and listen to them in Canada.

Which is a real bummer, considering how much ass the Canadian military has kicked over the years. Your boys (and girls!) comin' home deserve a little respect, and it's sad if not many are giving it to 'em.

Always been the way.

I remember reading about one soldier's journey home from WWII. Leaves Germany, goes through Holland to big celebrations and being treated as if he were a king (The Netherlands are still a place any Canadian can get a warm welcome no matter what). Goes through Franch, huge celebrations, wine, women, the whole nine yards. Goes to England waiting for a ship to come back to The New World, it's all "Jolly good job well done, my boy!" and free beer and smiles all around.

Gets to Halifax Harbor... Nothing. The only people waiting when he finally got home were families.

EDIT: Let's get back on topic, can we please?

I don't know if you are a civil servant (i.e. employee of the state), but you certainly did not do that in lieu of military service

PS: And I didn't actually dodge the draft until it had dodged me for some time
After school I was quite happy with the prospect to do something else than sitting in classes for some time, but didn't hear back from them. So plan B, go to university. In my second year they suddenly did remember me, but at that point I didn't want any longer, since that would have meant starting over from scratch after my service. Alas, one is safe from the draft from the third semester till graduation...

Sure you can. They're called desk jobs and they're quite important. You can have all the troops you want, but it doesn't help much if the logistical team isn't sending you weapons or ammo or food. Most countries as far as I'm aware will accept work at a desk job in lieu of being a combatant (though you often have to be at the desk job for considerably longer than if you were a combatant)

BUT, that logistical Team is still in the Military. As is the Administrative team that makes sure everything is properly ordered. The Military Industrial Complex has a great many Desk Jobs. Does not mean that they aren't in the Military though.

it's called civilian national service or alternative national service afaik, and yes you could do it in lieu of military service. Why not?


btw, that's a thread about an adept book in SR4

The point is that he (most likely) used a false friend. Instead of serving in any capacity in the army, German conscientious objectors do (well, for another 25 days until the draft is abolished suspended) "Zivildienst", which literally translates as "civil service" but is more like "paid community service"

He used an improper term perhaps by saying civil service instead of military desk job, but the point is he did something that wasn't fighting in combat to avoid being in the military.

FYI a false friend is a word which is a word in two different languages, but has different meanings in the two languages. Fag would be an example of this between British and American English.

Conscientious objectors (or anybody who sends in a text he found on google with minor changes) don't get military desk jobs, they do welfare stuff.


While I doubt that there is an official definition, IMO false friends also include words which sound similar (due to having the same etymology) in two languages but have different meanings.

Which is basically what I said. Okay, I used are the same instead of sound the same, but it works out to the same thing. Doesn't change the fact that Zivildienst doesn't sound like any English word I'm familiar with.

Edit: P.S. He didn't say he was a concensious objector, or if he did, I missed it. And what is that random stuff about google?

Back to topic, please. Nobody cares what Stahlseele did in his youth.

Heck, even i don't really care what i did . . oh shit, it's been 10 years back already? ._.

Time Flies...

As for Adepts... What do people thing of the new Adept Abilities in The Way of the Adept?
Too bad there were no more Metamagics.

the creative ones are too expensive, the uncreative ones are just that. Not much thought put into it. Sry Criteas Copy Paste Improved Attribute and Kinesics isn't worth a new chapter. That doesn't mean, that my Adept doesn't like Unseen Hands very much!

I wonder why the Astral Adept didn't make it in the book. It was suggested in this forum many times. Either as variant of the mystic adept who has access to Projection, or a version of the SR3 Metamagic Limited Projection

Yeah, I can see that. Most of them are very flavorful, for NPC's. There are a few that I actually like as a PC.
As for the Astral Adept, Yeah, I really miss that one from 3rd Edition. Of course, you could create one in SR4, with a Combination of Mystic Adept and Aspected Abilities (Astral).

Oh Well...

And it'd probably still be more missions legal than the way book stuff . .

Assuming Aspected Magicians are allowable in Missions. The rules for them are in Street Magic. I don't know, because I do not play Missions officially.

I'm fairly sure missions includes all the major supplements such asArsenal, SM, Unwired, and Augmentation. I think it also includes RC, War!, and RW. Web supplements on the other hand are all optional rules I believe, and so are included on a case by case basis.

I suspect that if an adept of the Invisible Way does it right, he doesn't really need amazing combat skills. Six to eight dice isn't much of a combat pool these days, but it's pretty good when your opponent doesn't get to roll to dodge.

I see all but speakers and warriors as being pretty usefull for an adept of the particular way.

Bull as Missions Coordinator stated that Way of the Adept is not allowed in Missions games.

Hence:

Way of the Adept also specifically states it's not legal for Missions games.

Check the fine print.

Most of the gear, spells, powers, etc. from the web supplements are legal, unless they are marked as "optional rules" or otherwise specifically called out as not legal in the SRM FAQ.



-k

See Slow from Bogota!

Or, better yet, don't!

So, just picked up Way of the Adept (along with some of the other web supplements) and gave it a cursory glance. From what I can tell, it really isn't 'OMG, I have to have this power boost' sort of stuff. Crunch wise it is a 10BP quality (Hitting on the rather limited 30 max that an adept has available) which gives you a 25% discount on 2-3 powers, a tiny boost to a couple metamagics, and access to a unique power, most of which are nice but not mind blowing. Overall it seems like a fairly fair trade-off for 10 BP. I mean if you tried really really hard you could maybe make the 25% discount give you an extra power point or so, but it really seems to be there much more for flavor.

I commend a nice little web supplement. I'd have loved a couple bucks off the price, but there you have it

Commendations go to Critias, who was the sole responsible writer of the Way Book.

I've done some math and I usually get about 2 points worth out of it.

"Glasses. Moustache. Handkerchief... I'M GOING TO OPERATE!"

That would require 8 PP being spent in 3 powers when you have a maximum of 6 PP.

Or combine it with a Geas, for Half Cost... A 2 point power now only costs One...

Okay, so that bypasses the 6PP part, but you still have to have 3 powers whose total base PP is worth 8 PP for it to give you a 2 PP discount. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I think you'd be really hard pressed to manage that.

well, try it again with the other Ways. Not only Warrior or Artisan.

Again, combined with a Geas, and 3 powers for a Classic Ninja (lets pick Increades Reflexes (4), Distance Strike (2), and Wall Running (1). I don't know if these all fall under the same grouping, but it is an example... At half Cost, these 7 points of Adept Powers now cost 3.5. Looks to me like you have saved (3.5 Points) more than you think...

Yes, if you ONLY use the Way Discount, then yes, you need 8pp to get 2pp free. However, there are always other alternatives...

Well yes, but you saved 3.5 because of Way and geas. Only 1.75 of that was saved because of way.

And only one way has access to increased reflexes, and none have distance strike. Without that it really is difficult to get up to such huge base PP expenditures with so few powers.

I never said there wasn't a potential for munchkinism, but that can be said of just about anything, including the core rules. In general you're going to save maybe around 1 PP. You could save more if you're really careful, and you could save less.

And as Makki alluded to, some ways are perhaps easier to mess with than others. Warrior for example seems to include all the most expensive and scalable powers (Improved reflexes and combat sense just to name two).

So like basically everything for the game, you can take it as a cool flavor addition to the game and your character, or an opportunity to power game and squeeze every last DP out of your collection of numbers.

But you could have gotten that one point of saving with just Geas.

However, I think the striking argument is this: With half cost you always arrive at nice numbers, which allows you to fill out your powers, whereas with only Geas or only the Way you arrive at some strange .188 bullshit numbers which you will never be able to fill.

True... Can't argue that...
I take it as Cool Flavor, personally...

I still don't see what flavor it adds.
There were already adepts who took power for combat and had a combat oriented mind, adepts who were focused on technical skills, adepts who burned some of their magic for the boost the ware gives and so on. So the fluff part is pretty much useless.
This leaves the rule part, and due to the way it's made, it's either a way to get a boost or a way to lose BP/karma, it won't make your character any different.

Cinnamon, with a Hint of Orange.

In a lot of cases, characters are designed for optimal performance (Just look at most Dumpshock Characters, especially after the forums get a hold of them) rather than flavor. If you already design for flavor, you will be able to get a bit more bang for your buck within that category. If you design with optimization in mind, this will let you optimize a bit more... Win/Win for everyone involved.

It is like the Codes of Conduct in RC. I like them, because you can have a bit more flavor because of them. Could you do it before the codes were implemented? Sure. But now they have a codified function. Potayto, Potahto...