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Harbin
Using Resonance Trodes advanced echo from unwired (p.148), would it be possible to essentially drag people you meet into the matrix when they greet you with a handshake? Or would you have to make a subdual roll for something like this?

Also, just asking the obvious here, but if someone is being held still by an ally, would you still need to roll subdual to keep in contact?
tagz
Pretty sure that you wouldn't have to make any roll or the first situation. No resistance to the touch on the NPC's part, no opposed roll.

Second one... If the target is truly subdued and not struggling, then no. I would say that if the target is still struggling with the person holding him down, then yea, I would have a melee touch attack roll be made. I would see it like this: You roll to hit ONLY the target and not your buddy holding him. No hits would mean like you didn't see an opening to touch him without risking your buddy. A glitch might mean you touched your buddy instead and drag HIM into VR. The target should roll his melee defense pool but of course would get a good penalty modifier to his dice pool for being held. Maybe 2x the number of net hits over his Body attribute that were scored on the subduing attack would work. At least, that's how I would play it.
Ol' Scratch
I doubt you could force someone to go with you through those means. It's a voluntary action on their part; they can choose to go with you, but I don't think you can force it upon them normally. That's closer to the characteristic that things like black IC or personafixes possess.
Kerenshara
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 22 2010, 03:33 PM) *
I doubt you could force someone to go with you through those means. It's a voluntary action on their part; they can choose to go with you, but I don't think you can force it upon them normally. That's closer to the characteristic that things like black IC or personafixes possess.

OK, I'm away from the books Doc, but I seem to remember that they specifically mentioned using it on a non-voluntary target. I'll have to look when I get back to my books.
Ol' Scratch
If they did, I'm unaware of it. I don't have access to my books now, either. I was referring more to a generality than any specific ability or technology. I mean, just because you plug a cable into someone's datajack, that doesn't mean they're forced to jump into VR. I don't see why doing the same thing, just through a skinlink, would be much different. But if the specific rules state as much, I don't know why there'd be much of a question to begin with. smile.gif
DireRadiant
p. 148
"If used against the receiverís will (for instance,
to drag a personís mind into hot VR and nuke it with Black IC),
it requires a touch-based unarmed attack to apply the trodes, and
maintaining the grip may require a successful subduing attack (p.
152, SR4). If resisted, the technomancer must also beat their victim
in an Opposed Test, pitting Resonance + Willpower against the targetís
Intuition + Willpower. If successful, the technomancerís touch
act as trodes until he stops or physical contact is broken."
Kerenshara
Ah, but that's just it. You're not plugging into an interface they have to activate voluntarily. You're TOUCHING them and accessing their neural net directly (and jamming open the connection, come to think of it). You're functioning just like Black IC would in those circumstances. It's just that you've bypassed the Comlink's barrier's by default and gone straight in.

Now, in combat, you've got to succeed in a grapple and MAINTAIN it to be of much use... so it's of limited use. It's more useful against helpless targets. Touch the bound and helpless slag and hit them with a Blackout CF you've learned with a psychotropic mod. Vicious.
tagz
I guess this begs the question then: Should they suffer dumpshock if the TM lets go?
Kerenshara
QUOTE (tagz @ Apr 22 2010, 04:28 PM) *
I guess this begs the question then: Should they suffer dumpshock if the TM lets go?

Arguably... yes. Ick.
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Harbin @ Apr 22 2010, 10:22 AM) *
Using Resonance Trodes advanced echo from unwired (p.148), would it be possible to essentially drag people you meet into the matrix when they greet you with a handshake? Or would you have to make a subdual roll for something like this?


I would do the subdual attack, but you should get the surprise and ambush bonus.

QUOTE (Harbin @ Apr 22 2010, 10:22 AM) *
Also, just asking the obvious here, but if someone is being held still by an ally, would you still need to roll subdual to keep in contact?


Your ally rolls subdual, you should roll an unarmed attack with significant bonuses.
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