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fistandantilus4.0
OK so I'm about to run a game, but I'm getting a little tired, so I mention that I would like a soda or soemthing, but really don't want to go get one. My handy-dandy wife pops up and says she'll go get me one for karma. Now me really wanting a monster, I tell her I'll give her 5 karma. Yeah, we do bribes in our games. Anyway, she tries to negotiate for 10! naturally, I say fuck it, I'll go, 'cause 10 karma for a drink, way too much, clearly. I stick to 5. She coutners with 7. I say six tops, but she stands firm. Soo..... naturally, we bust out characters and roll opposing negotiation.

End result, I'm getting a monster for 7 karma.

Wanted to share that.

I was also curious if anyone else has little karmic episodes or out of game karma awards. I've had a standing rule that if you buy food for the group, you get karma = $ you spent.
wind_in_the_stones
Wow, karma must be cheap in your games. Seven is a high award for a whole mission, and that was just for a drink? Dollars for karma would drop to nickels in our group, since we'd have (some) people fighting for the chance to drop thirty bucks on food. All I gotta do is buy dinner, and I can initiate twice?
Medicineman
Seven is a high award for a whole mission, and that was just for a drink?
not anymore
According to 4A Karmatables
7-10 for a Run is Standard with 12 being a very dangerous Run !
but I agree 7 Karma ist too much for a Drink
1 Karma (being at the right time & the right spot) would be Ok.
I'll be getting 2-3 Karma extra for one of my Chars next Time Doc Byte is my GM, because I gave him a Ticket for the RPC in Cologne(big Convention in Germany) for 1/2 Price

Hough!
Medicineman
crizh
I agree 7 karma was too much.

Imagine how much more than a drink you could have gotten for 7 karma when negotiating with your wife of all people!?....

grinbig.gif
Delta
I don't do it, and never would as a GM. I don't know, it just wouldn't feel right.
Lansdren
The most OOC Karma I have seen awarded is the odd point for a particually good pun or play on words outside of the RP if its got us all in stitches but thats it 7Karma for a drink seems abit relaxed to me but as ever if your having fun then who cares what we think
Aerospider
QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Apr 29 2010, 05:49 AM) *
Wow, karma must be cheap in your games. Seven is a high award for a whole mission, and that was just for a drink? Dollars for karma would drop to nickels in our group, since we'd have (some) people fighting for the chance to drop thirty bucks on food. All I gotta do is buy dinner, and I can initiate twice?

Surely karma-for-nickels would mean 20x as much karma as karma-for-dollars...?
Fuchs
We don't use karma (or BP) in our group, so that does not come up at all.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Well, one of the players in our group was awarded 10 karma for skiping a date with a girl (who was totally into sex on the first date) to play with us. I suggested he should gain karma for the "bros over whos" thing.
mielikki
Wow, as the wife of our group's GM, I think I will have to make some suggestions! smile.gif

So far, I have been getting 1 point of karma every other month - and that is for keeping the campaign log, weekly updating of our game website, and baking cookies for every game session. And I thought I was actually lucky to get anything at all! smile.gif
RedFish
I'd say OOC karma rewards for anything that doesn't benefit the group as a whole, and that everyone can't agree on, sets a very bad precedent. Then again - whatever works for your group, no?

QUOTE (mielikki @ Apr 29 2010, 11:38 AM) *
Wow, as the wife of our group's GM, I think I will have to make some suggestions! smile.gif

So far, I have been getting 1 point of karma every other month - and that is for keeping the campaign log, weekly updating of our game website, and baking cookies for every game session. And I thought I was actually lucky to get anything at all! smile.gif


Not only does this deserve karma, it deserves a small statue erected in your honour biggrin.gif
Karoline
It's like a pay-to-play game in your own den smile.gif

7 karma for a drink? Wow, if it was me... well, honestly I would have gone and gotten the drink, would have taken less time and effort than negotiating the karma price and actually breaking out characters and rolling dice, but if for some reason I was feeling too lazy to go get my own drink, it would be something more like 'if someone wants to grab me a drink, there might be an extra point of karma in it for you when karma awards are given out.'

And if I was leaning between giving someone X and X+1 karma, then the soda would likely tip me to X+1. Guess it is different from group to group.
Doc Chaos
QUOTE (RedFish @ Apr 29 2010, 01:44 PM) *
Not only does this deserve karma, it deserves a small statue erected in your honour biggrin.gif


I concur. Damn, I want cookies every gamesession frown.gif
Wailer
Man, most of my players would risk serious bodily harm for 7 karma.

It's gamer-crack .. and you know what people do for crack. smokin.gif

As far as karma for OOC things? Best I've ever been able to cough up is that +1 bonus point - I agree with Delta AND the fact that mielikki deserves a statue.
Delta
QUOTE (RedFish @ Apr 29 2010, 12:44 PM) *
I'd say OOC karma rewards for anything that doesn't benefit the group as a whole, and that everyone can't agree on, sets a very bad precedent.


My opinion as well, of course, YMMV.

I do give out the occasional bonus (as in single bonus point) for things like campaign logs, but that's about it. All in all, I don't even believe in giving out different karma awards at the end of the session, barring really extraordinary circumstances, everyone gets the same amount of karma.
Doc Chaos
I'd never give out Karma like that. Karma is a measurement of the advancements of a character in life because of the shit I put him thr... I mean, because of what he encounters and deals with in life. Its for what the character does. Not the player.
nylanfs
Here's a list of the things that my GM gives bonus Karma for

Bonus Karma

PCs will be awarded one bonus karma for each of the following from their players:

* Providing a character background (regardless of length, only available once).
* Providing a set of character goals (only available once).
* Providing a character portrait (only available once).
* Providing a contactís background (once per contact).
* Providing a character image for the map software (only available once, may be portrait image).
* Completing the adventure log for a session (once per session, one player each session).
* Suggesting a run based on characterís background or goals (earned if run concept is used).
Udoshi
In my group, our GM occasionally gives out bonus karma for spotting/catching onto important plot elements, piecing clues together, spotting references. Keeping good notes, or bringing -neat things- to the table. Pretty much the same type of thing people above have pointed out.

Buuut he -also- charges us karma for doing odd, cool, over-the-top things that edge doesn't -quite- cover. So there's a give - and - a take.
crizh
Hmm, perhaps if you want to bribe players to do stuff you could hand out Edge refreshes. Gives them a nice bonus that doesn't have long term repercussions to character development.
fistandantilus4.0
I do agree that 7 is a lot. The karma award for the run it's self was actually 5. I was feeling really lazy. biggrin.gif And the drink was delicious.

I do like to give out OOC for things like group food though, as well as anything like character pics, extra detailed backgrounds, etc. A big part of that reasoning is because we frequently rotate GMs, which usually means rotating characters. This way it doesn't take forever for a character to advance as you roll through different PCs.

Mielikki - You're getting jipped. smile.gif Sorry.

I do like Crizh's idea of refreshing edge though.
Draco18s
Karma for buying the GM a drink? Fuck it, I'm ordering pizza. Come on 6th magic point, no whammy no whammy!
Nal0n
One time I had a GM give me no Karma for my first run 'cause I gave him a 74 page background story ... he said it was because it took him 3 hours to wade through my "wall of text" frown.gif
Karoline
I haven't written a paper that long for college, and I'm about to graduate.

I wouldn't have docked points, but I would have asked for a 2 page summary to look over till I had a few spare hours to read that much.
Nal0n
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 30 2010, 01:33 AM) *
I haven't written a paper that long for college, and I'm about to graduate.


Me neither, but SR is so much more interesting ... wink.gif
Delta
QUOTE (Nal0n @ Apr 30 2010, 12:27 AM) *
One time I had a GM give me no Karma for my first run 'cause I gave him a 74 page background story ... he said it was because it took him 3 hours to wade through my "wall of text" frown.gif


And rightfully so.

If any player approached me with a monster like that, I'd kindly ask him to write me a background of 3-5 pages max, or I will refuse to read it. I'm sorry, but 74 pages isn't a background story, that's a novel. Which is fine for you to have, if you like that, and if your GM likes to read a lot, that's great, but if you can't fit everything the GM really needs to know about your character on 3-5 pages maximum, then there is something wrong. And not every GM has the time and motivation to read through a whole book trying to remember everything that might be important.
Draco18s
74 pages!? I wrote a 8-10 page short story that wasn't even a third of that!

(And yes, my 8-10 page short story was more than 2 pages over the upper limit).
Mesh
QUOTE (Nal0n @ Apr 29 2010, 07:35 PM) *
Me neither, but SR is so much more interesting ... wink.gif


QFT
Mesh
QUOTE (Delta @ Apr 29 2010, 07:37 PM) *
And rightfully so.

If any player approached me with a monster like that, I'd kindly ask him to write me a background of 3-5 pages max, or I will refuse to read it. I'm sorry, but 74 pages isn't a background story, that's a novel. Which is fine for you to have, if you like that, and if your GM likes to read a lot, that's great, but if you can't fit everything the GM really needs to know about your character on 3-5 pages maximum, then there is something wrong. And not every GM has the time and motivation to read through a whole book trying to remember everything that might be important.


If you don't appreciate that one of your players is jazzed enough to write 74 pages about his character, there is something wrong indeed.

Mesh
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 05:33 PM) *
I haven't written a paper that long for college, and I'm about to graduate.

I wouldn't have docked points, but I would have asked for a 2 page summary to look over till I had a few spare hours to read that much.



I think the longest paper for school that I did was about 40 pages... and that was a lot of work...
I had a 32 page character journal for L5R once... but wow... 74 pages for a character background... lot of work...

Keep the Faith...
Karoline
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 08:53 PM) *
I think the longest paper for school that I did was about 40 pages... and that was a lot of work...
I had a 32 page character journal for L5R once... but wow... 74 pages for a character background... lot of work...

Keep the Faith...


Well, I take that back actually. My longest paper turned in was likely over 74 pages, but all but 10 or so pages were giant data sheets that went with the lab report.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 08:03 PM) *
Well, I take that back actually. My longest paper turned in was likely over 74 pages, but all but 10 or so pages were giant data sheets that went with the lab report.



heheheh... Those damn lab reports...

Keep the Faith
Karoline
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 09:04 PM) *
heheheh... Those damn lab reports...

Keep the Faith


Yeah. Why exactly my professor wanted 80ish pages of retention times from about 40ish runs containing three compounds of interest I don't know, but she got them.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 08:10 PM) *
Yeah. Why exactly my professor wanted 80ish pages of retention times from about 40ish runs containing three compounds of interest I don't know, but she got them.



Lab Professors are even worse than Lab Reports... Sheesh...

Keep the Faith
Karoline
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 09:11 PM) *
Lab Professors are even worse than Lab Reports... Sheesh...

Keep the Faith


Especially since I know she didn't read through it at all.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 08:16 PM) *
Especially since I know she didn't read through it at all.



Do they ever? It is my belief that they just put it on a lab scale and then hand out grades based upon weight...
Of course, that was 12 years ago for me, and they may have a more accurate method of weighing than a lab scale nowadays...

Keep the Faith
Karoline
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 09:36 PM) *
Do they ever? It is my belief that they just put it on a lab scale and then hand out grades based upon weight...
Of course, that was 12 years ago for me, and they may have a more accurate method of weighing than a lab scale nowadays...

Keep the Faith


Heh, could explain why my reports that I put way more thought and calculations into got a lower grade than my lab partner who simply had more pointless charts and bigger graphs, and didn't go as in depth with the actual results.

Don't know about what you had 12 years ago, but our scales have +/- 0.0001g now, so fairly accurate wink.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 08:45 PM) *
Heh, could explain why my reports that I put way more thought and calculations into got a lower grade than my lab partner who simply had more pointless charts and bigger graphs, and didn't go as in depth with the actual results.

Don't know about what you had 12 years ago, but our scales have +/- 0.0001g now, so fairly accurate wink.gif



Thats.... Pretty damn accurate... I was going to say something funny, likening the scales I used to Merchant Scales in the 17th Century, but they were not that bad really... but it is a bit funny, at least to me anyways... But then, I am getting a bit old (Approaching Mid-40's)...

Keep the Faith
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 11:45 PM) *
Heh, could explain why my reports that I put way more thought and calculations into got a lower grade than my lab partner who simply had more pointless charts and bigger graphs, and didn't go as in depth with the actual results.

Don't know about what you had 12 years ago, but our scales have +/- 0.0001g now, so fairly accurate wink.gif


pointless you say... Those charts and graphs are what increased his grade and yours didn't. smile.gif
EVERYBODY loves charts and graphs, it gives a touch of credibility and scientific method.
Have you ever seen the graph showing the increase of natural tragedies with the decrease of pirate population? It "clearly shows" that if the population of pirates increase there will be a decrease of natural tragedies rotfl.gif
Professor Evil Overlord
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 07:11 PM) *
Lab Professors are even worse than Lab Reports... Sheesh...

Keep the Faith


Hey! That hurts! grinbig.gif

QUOTE (Karoline @ Apr 29 2010, 07:16 PM) *
Especially since I know she didn't read through it at all.


QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 29 2010, 07:36 PM) *
Do they ever? It is my belief that they just put it on a lab scale and then hand out grades based upon weight...
Of course, that was 12 years ago for me, and they may have a more accurate method of weighing than a lab scale nowadays...

Keep the Faith


Nonsense. No self respecting lab instructor would take the time to weigh each paper individually. We randomly select five papers, weigh them together, take the average weight, and assign grades to each student in the group. wink.gif
mielikki
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Apr 29 2010, 10:54 PM) *
Mielikki - You're getting jipped. smile.gif Sorry.


Maybe - but then again, I am doing it because I want to - not for the karma smile.gif

After all, with the rules on character advancement (which, even after houseruling, is terribly slow and I cannot imagine playing RAW), most of the PCs tend to have 20-40 karma waiting to be used up in downtime...
Fuchs
QUOTE (Mesh @ Apr 30 2010, 02:29 AM) *
If you don't appreciate that one of your players is jazzed enough to write 74 pages about his character, there is something wrong indeed.

Mesh


I would be wary of anyone who was that "jazzed up". That could cause a lot of trouble in the campaign. It could have the Forgotten Realms effect ("But on page 70 of my background it states that this bar is not like you describe it"), or the "No, not Blackleaf! You can't kill her!" effect.
Mesh
QUOTE (Fuchs @ Apr 30 2010, 04:51 AM) *
I would be wary of anyone who was that "jazzed up". That could cause a lot of trouble in the campaign. It could have the Forgotten Realms effect ("But on page 70 of my background it states that this bar is not like you describe it"), or the "No, not Blackleaf! You can't kill her!" effect.


I disagree. There's nothing worse than a group of players who write nothing for their background and want to hit all the security guards with their panther cannons. Throw in someone who's willing to do as much writing as the GM? That's golden.

My enjoyment of Shadowrun comes from the setting and the stories. Write a novel about your character if you can do it. Please.

Mesh
Dreadlord
I can't get some of my players to read the damn core book, let alone put down 5 words of a backstory!

74 pages would have to be given to me WELL before the first session of the character in order for me to read through it, but I wouldn't mind at all if someone would put that much effort into it. SR is so lethal that it would suck if that character got killed right away, though! wink.gif
Nal0n
The one thing I learned from that is talking to the GM before writing long Background stories wink.gif

As for the dieing ... Characters die, that's SR ... and I do not write those stories because I have to, or to use them against the GM or even for the GM ... I write them because it's fun, plain and simple ... and if the GM likes them as well all the better wink.gif

And if not he gets a 2-3 page abstract and I keep the longer version for myself wink.gif
fazzamar
QUOTE (Dreadlord @ Apr 30 2010, 11:03 AM) *
I can't get some of my players to read the damn core book, let alone put down 5 words of a backstory!


In the group I'm currently running, I'm the only one who's actually read the core book, at all. The whole group made characters without a bit of background. So I sent them an e-mail yesterday telling them that for every 2 questions answered from the character quiz in RC they'd get a karma point, max 2 karma per session. Hopefully that'll get me a little background to work with.
Aerospider
QUOTE (Mesh @ Apr 30 2010, 01:26 PM) *
I disagree. There's nothing worse than a group of players who write nothing for their background and want to hit all the security guards with their panther cannons. Throw in someone who's willing to do as much writing as the GM? That's golden.

My enjoyment of Shadowrun comes from the setting and the stories. Write a novel about your character if you can do it. Please.

Mesh

I'd agree with your "nothing worse" claim, but I have another problem.

I have a game of eight players (with more interested but you've gotta draw the line somewhere!) and most of them have taken at least a moderate interest in their character's background with a couple going into some nice detail. Problem is, all the backstories have very immediate implications. Keeping eight players from getting bored (a la the spinning plates analagy) and maintaining momentum in the combat scenes are standard challenges, but writing and running four or five unconnected subplots where the players have created character-defining mysteries to be solved?!!

Maybe that's just this particular group. Does anyone else find that the invitation to write a background story almost always results in a someone's-trying-to-kill/ruin-me/my family-and-I-don't-know-who-or-why story?
Karoline
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Apr 30 2010, 11:47 AM) *
Maybe that's just this particular group. Does anyone else find that the invitation to write a background story almost always results in a someone's-trying-to-kill/ruin-me/my family-and-I-don't-know-who-or-why story?


I don't think I've ever written a background like that. I've had a couple where I was wanted or otherwise had someone looking for me or out for me, but never anything that indicated that they should be showing up on my doorstep any day now, and in one particular case, had it so that there was very little chance that they'd do so.
Nixda
I love to read, and can never get enough good books for reading. I'd award extra karma for an 74 page background story (as long as it is not rubbish quality, of course).

My players love to go through all the old stories they experienced, but I cannot even get them to do an adventuring log - not even in Earthdawn indifferent.gif

fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Apr 30 2010, 10:47 AM) *
I'd agree with your "nothing worse" claim, but I have another problem.
...
Maybe that's just this particular group. Does anyone else find that the invitation to write a background story almost always results in a someone's-trying-to-kill/ruin-me/my family-and-I-don't-know-who-or-why story?

I've had a few. The Hunted and Amnesia ones can get bad. Dole them out, or limit how many can have those, for sure. The "I don't know why" are the worst though, agreed. There is the occassion where the do it for legit reasons, but it's usually just laziness. Get some motivation behind it, and if they've got a character with someone looking for them, just try to keep it from becoming a focus at the expense of the other players. All things require GM approval.
nylanfs
This is about the typical length of my back stories.

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