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Biffles
I'm fairly new to GMing shadowrun, and my group of runners are all completely new. That's not stopping them from creating ridiculous character concepts, though.

The player who opted to be the group's Face is considering playing a female magician who is about 7 months pregnant (obviously going by the name Preggers). The idea here is that no one will want to deal with a pregnant woman, so they'll just give her what she wants so they can move on with their lives, and she can remain an effective face for the group (unless she's feeling moody, the player is considering taking the Dark Goddess mentor spirit from Street Magic to simulate this).

I have a few questions for you, Dumpshockers.

Is there a Pregnant quality in any of the books? If not, what would it look like if you had to create it? We've been trying to mix a couple of existing qualities for this. Infirm to reduce her heavy-lifting, and bi-polar for her mood.

The character's a magician, and she'll be dealing with drain. Would this affect the child?
Karoline
There is no pregnant quality of any kind that I know of, but I agree, bi-polar for mood swings. I'm not sure about infirm though, because that just stops her getting physical skills, which is silly because she could have gotten those skills before getting pregnant. Instead perhaps give her a DP penalty equal to how many months pregnant she is on any physical skills linked to physical attributes (So perception is unaffected). Drain is unlikely to be good for the baby, and should likely restrict herself from overcasting, or even casting with a higher drain than she can buy the hits to bring it down to 0 drain for perhaps. Also consider throwing in distinctive style, because everyone is going to remember the group that had the pregnant woman, and passerbys are more likely to remember her as well. Oh, and of course she'll need custom clothing and armor.

The thing is though, I don't think you should do these things as disadvantages in the normal sense, because otherwise she'll have to use tons of karma to pay off all the qualities when the baby is born. Instead maybe lump them all into a 15-point disadvantage for being pregnant which will be replaced by a 15 point dependent quality when the baby is born.
Dumori
I would take some thing like bi-polar as a base for mood swings but I'd change how it works affect wise. As for the quality its basicly latent dependent its not like in 3 months the baby will be born and she'll leave it to die is it?
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (Dumori @ May 6 2010, 12:57 PM) *
I would take some thing like bi-polar as a base for mood swings but I'd change how it works affect wise. As for the quality its basicly latent dependent its not like in 3 months the baby will be born and she'll leave it to die is it?

Put it up for adoption and get knocked up again? The whole char concept is rather silly tho. I would think a pregnant runner gets an automatic Distinctive style with no bonus bp... Kinda limits one's mobility as well.
Dumori
Yes being pregnat would be distinctive style then replaced by dependent also your a shadowrunner ffs shooting people in the face for money is a core part of the job even for a face.
brennanhawkwood
Other possible ideas for simulating various possible side-effects of pregnancy:

* "Unhealable" Stun Damage based on how far into the pregnancy she is (maybe months/2). Early pregnancy isn't too big a deal but the further you get in, the more tiring it can get. Not only would this result in the mother not being able to put up with as much abuse, but also includes a small penalty to DP based on advanced pregnancy.

* Temporary Uncommon to Common Mild to Moderate Allergy to food. Some women can be VERY sensitive during pregnancy to different food types (kind of a built in protective mechanism). There were times during my wife's pregnancies that just being around food could make her slightly queasy all the way to sending her running to the bathroom to throw up.

I might have more ideas (having gone through this 3 times RL) ... but these will have to do for now, got a meeting to go to.
SaintHax
Also, noone would want to run w/ her-- and the Notority she'd get from endangering her child ShadowRunning. Constantly distracted, needs lots of sleep, clumsy. I'd personally have her wear a fake pregnancy apperatus instead-- much easier to deal with.
Karoline
QUOTE (SaintHax @ May 6 2010, 01:16 PM) *
have her wear a fake pregnancy apperatus


AKA a pillow nyahnyah.gif
hermit
Suggestions:

Treat pregnancy as 1 point of fatigue per month (for a maximum reduction to a DP of 2) for highly physical tests suzch as athletics, gymnastics, that kind of stuff.

Apply appropriate social modifiers. Certain NPC will behave different to Preggers than to other characters.

Also, every time the mother takes damage or is poisoned, roll for the baby (an all-1 of it's metatype) for damage too. baby may not use skills since baby obviously doesn't have skills yet. BBaby rolls are done by the mother. All damage done to the mother is transferred 1 on 1 to the baby, so if the mother has to soak 4 boxes, so dies baby. Baby also gets one bad mental quality for every failed addicition test instead of an addiction. This cumulares by 5 points with each fail. Alcohol and smoking give the baby one 5 pt negative physical and mental flaw each. Yeah, this is kinda harsh, but see, that's why pregnant women ought not to go to war.
Biffles
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 6 2010, 10:50 AM) *
The thing is though, I don't think you should do these things as disadvantages in the normal sense, because otherwise she'll have to use tons of karma to pay off all the qualities when the baby is born. Instead maybe lump them all into a 15-point disadvantage for being pregnant which will be replaced by a 15 point dependent quality when the baby is born.


I like this idea a lot. The potential backstory is that the mother is running in order to provide for the child, college fund, etc. She cares for it, and wants to keep it.

QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ May 6 2010, 11:02 AM) *
Put it up for adoption and get knocked up again? The whole char concept is rather silly tho. I would think a pregnant runner gets an automatic Distinctive style with no bonus bp... Kinda limits one's mobility as well.


It is fairly silly, but that's kind of par for the course for our group. For the most part, characters like this tend to be a bit more fun for us to play. We're not going for ultra-realism here, just something we'll get a kick out of trying to role-play our way through it.

Another thought was a severe addiction to snack food, with a random ~3d6 table of cravings.
Method
For drain: give the baby attributes of 1 and make him resist any net drain mom sustains (fails to resist). All drain will be physical because baby is either mundane or has a Magic attribute of 1; either way any spell's force exceeds his Magic. Note also that baby will have fewer boxes on his condition monitor.
Falanin
Well, if she really wants to go by the name "preggers", than an apparatus is surely the way to go... unless she really wants to raise shadowrunner Jr. as well.

But why stop there? If it's going to be her schtick, make the apparatus a bulk-modded synthetic cybertorso with a/multiple? large smuggling compartment/s. Just the straight lines pulling stuff from there gives would be worth it...
knasser

I would be very unlikely to allow a pregnant PC in my game (at least as a beginning character) unless the player was a very good role-player. Reason being, this is Shadowrun, not the Happy Adventures Game. Being pregnant is going to severely impair a character's survivability once pregnancy reaches the later stages and harm done to the mother can result in the baby dying or being damaged. Neither scenario is one that is very pleasant to include in a game.

And if they think that most of the criminal denizens in Shadowrun they come across will "give her what they want" because she's pregnant, they're heavily mistaken. It's cannon that in this setting, some desperate girls actually rent themselves out as surrogate mothers to clone babies, used for compatible organs. Some of the nicer people they meet might abduct the baby to force the magician mother (a valuable commodity in the shadows) to do what they want.

No player should want to make their character pregnant to gain an advantage.

That aside, I wouldn't slap a quality of "bi-polar" on the character because of pregnancy. The media stereotype might be this, and some people might adopt it because they're expected to, but a lot of women are a great deal happier during their pregnancy.

Of course they're not worrying about delivering their child into the nightmare that is SR2072.

K.
Method
I agree with Khadim in that it seems like a bad idea to give a character lasting negative qualities because she's pregnant (but then I also think its silly to build an entire character around this concept unless you rotate PCs frequently and don't anticipate playing this one for more than a few months of game time).

If you want to simulate pregnancy more accurately I would design a "pregnancy" disease based on the rules in Augmentation with effects like Nausea, Stun Damage and Malaise (to simulate the physical limitations). Have the power = term (months of pregnancy) or [term/2] and make the Speed 24 hours or so. You could also extend the length of time needed to recoup from stun damage.
knasser
QUOTE (Method @ May 6 2010, 06:50 PM) *
I agree with Khadim in that it seems like a bad idea to give a character lasting negative qualities because she's pregnant (but then I also think its silly to build an entire character around this concept unless you rotate PCs frequently and don't anticipate playing this one for more than a few months of game time).

If you want to simulate pregnancy more accurately I would design a "pregnancy" disease based on the rules in Augmentation with effects like Nausea, Stun Damage and Malaise (to simulate the physical limitations). Have the power = term (months of pregnancy) or [term/2] and make the Speed 24 hours or so. You could also extend the length of time needed to recoup from stun damage.


I think you need to add "Vector" there. Holding hands and kissing, apparently. wink.gif

K.
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (knasser @ May 6 2010, 01:58 PM) *
I think you need to add "Vector" there. Holding hands and kissing, apparently. wink.gif

K.

At the risk of sounding lewd, I'd suggest Injection as a vector rotate.gif
Method
Or maybe; "thinking unclean thoughts", perhaps? rotfl.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Method @ May 6 2010, 02:08 PM) *
Or maybe; "thinking unclean thoughts", perhaps? rotfl.gif


Very glad that doesn't work nyahnyah.gif

Don't forget that males can only be carriers, and women can't infect each other wink.gif
Biffles
QUOTE (Method @ May 6 2010, 11:24 AM) *
For drain: give the baby attributes of 1 and make him resist any net drain mom sustains (fails to resist). All drain will be physical because baby is either mundane or has a Magic attribute of 1; either way any spell's force exceeds his Magic. Note also that baby will have fewer boxes on his condition monitor.


This is actually what I had in mind, and what I'm probably leaning towards doing.

QUOTE (knasser @ May 6 2010, 11:39 AM) *
I would be very unlikely to allow a pregnant PC in my game (at least as a beginning character) unless the player was a very good role-player. Reason being, this is Shadowrun, not the Happy Adventures Game. Being pregnant is going to severely impair a character's survivability once pregnancy reaches the later stages and harm done to the mother can result in the baby dying or being damaged. Neither scenario is one that is very pleasant to include in a game.

And if they think that most of the criminal denizens in Shadowrun they come across will "give her what they want" because she's pregnant, they're heavily mistaken. It's cannon that in this setting, some desperate girls actually rent themselves out as surrogate mothers to clone babies, used for compatible organs. Some of the nicer people they meet might abduct the baby to force the magician mother (a valuable commodity in the shadows) to do what they want.

No player should want to make their character pregnant to gain an advantage.


I think it's important to note that I've only been pointing out negative qualities here. The idea that people will just give her what she wants is just fluff. Her social skills are still based on charisma, just like any other runner. The only thing different is how NPCs might respond to her in character.
Jame J
QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ May 6 2010, 01:02 PM) *
Put it up for adoption and get knocked up again? The whole char concept is rather silly tho. I would think a pregnant runner gets an automatic Distinctive style with no bonus bp... Kinda limits one's mobility as well.


My question is why anyone who's pregnant - or at least that far along - would go on 'Runs (even if she is by career choice a Runner). Not sayin' that Runners wouldn't have kids, just wondering why the ones who are pregnant would go on runs.
Yerameyahu
Anything is possible. I think it'd be a very silly and distracting gimmick, but it all depends on your game, your group, your GM. If you really want to do it, some of the above ideas for massive penalties seem reasonable.
Minchandre
I'd agree that this sort of gimmick is probably better done with cosmetic surgery and pheromone modification. Plus, as was pointed out, you get a nifty smuggling compartment biggrin.gif
Ol' Scratch
No Johnosn would hire her and few runners would run with her. I don't see why it's even worth coming up with rules.
ClemulusRex
QUOTE (Jame J @ May 6 2010, 08:50 PM) *
My question is why anyone who's pregnant - or at least that far along - would go on 'Runs (even if she is by career choice a Runner). Not sayin' that Runners wouldn't have kids, just wondering why the ones who are pregnant would go on runs.


Oh, c'mon. Has no one here seen "Series 7: The Contenders"? That's my homework for you and your player, Biffles.
Biffles
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ May 6 2010, 03:02 PM) *
No Johnosn would hire her and few runners would run with her. I don't see why it's even worth coming up with rules.


I'm GMing the campaign, and I'm encouraging my player to do it because it will be fun for the player, myself, and the rest of the group. Who cares if it's not realistic?

QUOTE (ClemulusRex @ May 6 2010, 03:06 PM) *
Oh, c'mon. Has no one here seen "Series 7: The Contenders"? That's my homework for you and your player, Biffles.


I just read the IMDB page for this, and it sounds awesome. Adding it to my Netflix queue. smile.gif
Yerameyahu
Psh. Again, *anything* is possible. Have a little imagination.
svenftw
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ May 6 2010, 02:02 PM) *
No Johnosn would hire her and few runners would run with her. I don't see why it's even worth coming up with rules.


Says who? There are as many different styles of play as there are gaming groups.

I think this character concept is pretty cool, obviously the woman isn't going to be your average doting parent but she's probably tough as nails to keep running the shadows all through her pregnancy.

If it were my game I would try to engineer a scenario wherein the kid is born prematurely during a particularly brutal gunfight. Then maybe for a later campaign the resulting kid could become a character as well. It could turn what would normally be a ridiculous backstory into something that actually happened:

"Shifty was born in the middle of a raging gunfight. Literally."

It can go anywhere from there.
Karoline
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ May 6 2010, 05:02 PM) *
No Johnosn would hire her and few runners would run with her. I don't see why it's even worth coming up with rules.


The J wouldn't care that much, especially if he thought she was a mage (She is) who will be doing astral instead of physical, could just be there for the legwork, could figure she is a hacker/rigger. I mean hell, a J will hire a paraplegic, I don't see why a J wouldn't hire a pregnant woman.

As for other runners, see the above argument. Plenty of character concepts involve them being blind, paraplegic, quadriplegic, infirmed, deaf, or otherwise the sort that 'no one would ever hire or take on a run' according to conventional modern day wisdom, but in 2072, physical ability is highly overrated with magic, the matrix, and drones everywhere.
ClemulusRex
QUOTE (Biffles @ May 6 2010, 09:25 PM) *
I'm GMing the campaign, and I'm encouraging my player to do it because it will be fun for the player, myself, and the rest of the group. Who cares if it's not realistic?


I agree. Then again, I've already gone on record as being the kind of GM that allowed a character whose backstory was "70-year-old, dementia-ridden retiree wakes up one day with late-blooming PhysAd powers and decides he's a super-hero." He had to sneak out of the rest home at night to go on runs. Not to mention that one of his teammates was a Street Sam who had a skill set that led me to believe he was pre-med before becoming a runner and, despite being crammed full of 'ware and owning a BMW Blitzen, lived at the end of an alley in a cardboard box.

That game was the best 80's/sci-fi/buddy/action/comedy movie EVER.


QUOTE (Biffles @ May 6 2010, 09:25 PM) *
I just read the IMDB page for this, and it sounds awesome. Adding it to my Netflix queue. smile.gif


It certainly is. Enjoy!
I Hate All Life
You know Biffles, you could be really mean to the preggers character by just being true to the SR setting, even without being punitive for her sheer temerity. I'd warn her player first though.

To begin with, make sure your player knows that there are a lot of amoral and straight-up sadistic sons of bitches that populate the SR world that won't give a flying fig that she's pregnant -- or would see the opportunity for a two-for-one kill. And it's worth discussing with your player her (his?) rationale for using her character's unborn child as some sort of shield against consequences (and maybe bonus character points). That gambit may work if you're a really nice GM... but it may fail, and hard if you're a realistic one. I guess this is a sore issue for me because once knew a pregnant woman (we'll call her "M") that picked fights, even slapping people, confident that no one would mess with her. M guessed wrong. Some homegirl whipped M's fucking ass, and she lost her baby. Was this right, did she have it coming? No way, that's not what I'm saying. But M put herself and her unborn child in that situation and both she and it paid a dear price. (It's just as well she didn't have the kid, she was a druggie and didn't take care of the litter she had.) I can't stand people that do stuff like that, and I would probably take a player to task just for proposing such a character for the reasons your player outlined.

Now, as far as using pregnancy as an angle for character development, sure. Swearing off the magic along with the booze and smokes, or not having cybernetics implanted, can seriously cram a runner's style. Prenatal drugs and therapy can help, perhaps she can get a bioware implant designed to protect the child and increase the chances of carrying the child to term. Low-risk hacking is doable, though nothing with bad IC that will fuck her up. She won't be able to contribute much to the group, but her priority should be her baby, even if runs are what's paying her bills. (But that's not what your player is trying to do, at least from what you've said, Bif. Which I'd personally find disappointing.)

And yeah, I think significant drain = miscarriage. Not to mention the possible how having excessive magic coursing through her body might fuck up a child. In a light comic book universe, the result might be a talking superbaby. In the gritty SR universe however, the result can be a child born with severe problems (psychological, physical and spiritual), a mass of tissue and teeth, or stillborn baby along with a tiny but persistent revenant spirit that hates Mommy and/or that tries "nursing" on her Essence. Fun times.
Karoline
I think the player was hoping to get a social benefit out of the pregnancy more than a combat sort of one. Either because the person she is dealing with will feel sorry for her, or her state will make them uncomfortable and thus want to wrap things up more quickly or be easier to read.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (svenftw @ May 6 2010, 03:48 PM) *
Says who?

If you were out to hire some professional criminals to perform some clandestine operation that meant big things for you or your company, would you hire an obviously pregnant woman (especially one who goes by the name 'Preggers') to sneak into a top secret facility/whatever, perform whatever task you needed done, and get away unseen? Especially if hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of nuyen were on the line? Doubly so when there's tons of other more apt individuals you could hire instead (Shadowrunners are a dime a dozen afterall).

If you were one of those professional criminals and your life would be in the hands of your teammates, would you want one of them to be a pregnant woman with massive mood swings who's only concern would be her baby's safety rather than watching your own back? Would you want one slowing you down as she waddles behind, panting and breathing like a yak? Would you want to deal with the guilt if something did happen to her or her baby because you were so dickish as to bring a pregnant woman along in the first place?

It's a lame ass concept from start to finish. Especially the logic behind it: Some douchenozzle wants to play a pregnant chick with the idiotic name "Preggers" simply because they think that means everyone will give her whatever she wants. That's literally the reason given: "The idea here is that no one will want to deal with a pregnant woman, so they'll just give her what she wants so they can move on with their lives."

There is such a thing as a dumb concept. This is an example of a dumb concept. Not only is the base concept dumb, but there's no way in any semblance of a believable (<-- keyword there: not realisitic, but believable) take of the game world that such a concept would fit in. Even in a pink mohawk game it's idiotic beyond any definition of the word. An 8-year-old street orphan has a better chance of being hired and being welcomed into a group of runners over a pregnant woman. Mage or not.
Yerameyahu
Preposterous. There is no limit to what can fit in a pink mohawk game.
Chance359
I do remember a story written by Hyzmarca about a pregnant shadowrunner who used her fetus's for blood magic spirits.



And here it is:

Just a little Twisted
svenftw
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ May 6 2010, 04:02 PM) *
If you were out to hire some professional criminals to perform some clandestine operation that meant big things for you or your company, would you hire an obviously pregnant woman (especially one who goes by the name 'Preggers') to sneak into a top secret facility/whatever, perform whatever task you needed done, and get away unseen? Especially if hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of nuyen were on the line? Doubly so when there's tons of other more apt individuals you could hire instead (Shadowrunners are a dime a dozen afterall).

If you were one of those professional criminals and your life would be in the hands of your teammates, would you want one of them to be a pregnant woman with massive mood swings who's only concern would be her baby's safety rather than watching your own back? Would you want one slowing you down as she waddles behind, panting and breathing like a yak? Would you want to deal with the guilt if something did happen to her or her baby because you were so dickish as to bring a pregnant woman along in the first place?

It's a lame ass concept from start to finish. Especially the logic behind it: Some douchenozzle wants to play a pregnant chick with the idiotic name "Preggers" simply because they think that means everyone will give her whatever she wants. That's literally the reason given: "The idea here is that no one will want to deal with a pregnant woman, so they'll just give her what she wants so they can move on with their lives."

There is such a thing as a dumb concept. This is an example of a dumb concept. Not only is the base concept dumb, but there's no way in any semblance of a believable (<-- keyword there: not realisitic, but believable) take of the game world that such a concept would fit in. Even in a pink mohawk game it's idiotic beyond any definition of the word. An 8-year-old street orphan has a better chance of being hired and being welcomed into a group of runners over a pregnant woman. Mage or not.


So... says you then?
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 6 2010, 04:54 PM) *
I think the player was hoping to get a social benefit out of the pregnancy more than a combat sort of one. Either because the person she is dealing with will feel sorry for her, or her state will make them uncomfortable and thus want to wrap things up more quickly or be easier to read.

Even if that's the case, it still fails. Here's why.

1) Not everyone's opinion of pregnant women is charitable, especially in the criminal underbelly where Shadowrunners tend to operate. They may think she's hormonally imbalanced or a some sad case that got knocked up, and just not deal with her (unless she uses magic to force the issue; see below). And I'm with Dr. Funkenstein, who would hire someone that obviously pregnant? What fixer wants to put someone like that in danger, or is willing to come across looking unprofessional by willing to pitch runners that are pregnant? (Mr. Johnson: "Really, this is what you're giving me? Are you that hard up for runners?") Good luck getting work, Juno.

2) So she won't pick fights... so what about fights that pick her? What will she do, waddle run away? To paraphrase Peter Griffin, "Fights in Shadowrun are like sex with Kobe Bryant.. you can kick and scream all you want, but it's gonna happen." Violence is an inevitability among runners. Hope a stray bullet doesn't catch her in the stomach.

3) So she's a face that uses magic, right? What does she do, then... close her eyes and hope really hard the magic and/or drain doesn't affect her baby? Am I alone in thinking this might have bad consequences?

Of course, all this can be handwaved away if Biffles runs the game like some sort of badly written cartoon. But I'm assuming that he wants to remain somewhat true to the gritty Shadowrun setting... perhaps wrongly?
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (svenftw @ May 6 2010, 05:27 PM) *
So... says you then?

And me. And anyone with an understanding of 1) the Shadowrun setting and 2) can attach cause to effect. If you ignore these central elements, fine, it's all good. But the resulting game will have as much in common with Shadowrun as a Disney movie.

Not to say all pregnant runner concepts are stupid; there's potential in that. But the one proposed by the player in question is.
Yerameyahu
It takes only the slightest imagination to make this happen. Personally, I think it's a terrible and unfun idea, but I would never have the gall to tell someone it's impossible. It's not like Mages are *that* common. Gritty means that sometimes desperate and suboptimal things happen.

The OP certainly didn't ask if you approved. It was a question about how to rule the penalties.
svenftw
QUOTE (I Hate All Life @ May 6 2010, 03:32 PM) *
And me. And anyone with an understanding of 1) the Shadowrun setting and 2) can attach cause to effect. If you ignore these central elements, fine, it's all good. But the resulting game will have as much in common with Shadowrun as a Disney movie.

Not to say all pregnant runner concepts are stupid; there's potential in that. But the one proposed by the player in question is.


I didn't mean to leave you out. Says you also.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 6 2010, 06:33 PM) *
The OP certainly didn't ask if you approved. It was a question about how to rule the penalties.

And he didn't ask if you disapproved of those disapproving. Hypocrisy, ain't it grand?
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 6 2010, 05:33 PM) *
It takes only the slightest imagination to make this happen. Personally, I think it's a terrible and unfun idea, but I would never have the gall to tell someone it's impossible. It's not like Mages are *that* common. Gritty means that sometimes desperate and suboptimal things happen.

The OP certainly didn't ask if you approved. It was a question about how to rule the penalties.

We're free to express our opinions anyway, right? Right. Some people think it's a silly idea and unworkable unless you ignore a lot of the game (both fluff and rules) and they're free to express that. Being that cause and effect don't meaningfully apply in a universe that accepts this character as a shadowrunner, since there's no realism, no reasonable penalties will be imposed on this character. So discussing penalties is actually moot.

Sure, we have imagination. I can imagine alien spider monkey/centaurs as a SR PC race. Doesn't mean whatever we imagine is a good idea.
Yerameyahu
That's not what hypocrisy means.

There's simply no reason to say that this (terrible, unfun) idea is impossible. To do so is not expressing an opinion; the opinion is that you wouldn't play/allow it. No one said you couldn't express opinions.
Karoline
QUOTE (I Hate All Life @ May 6 2010, 07:44 PM) *
it's a silly idea and unworkable unless you ignore a lot of the game (both fluff and rules) and they're free to express that.


What SR rule is being ignored? Can you name even one rule that would indicate that it is impossible for someone that is pregnant to run?

That said, I do agree that it is likely a bad concept for a runner that isn't a hacker/rigger, because it is difficult to imagine being this desperate for cash and not simply having an abortion or doing something (prostitution? Anything at all with a lower chance of being gunned down?) less likely to kill the unborn child.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 6 2010, 06:49 PM) *
That's not what hypocrisy means.

You were expressing disapproval at people for expressing disapproval. That's a textbook example of hypocrisy.
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 6 2010, 05:49 PM) *
That's not what hypocrisy means.

There's simply no reason to say that this (terrible, unfun) idea is impossible. To do so is not expressing an opinion; the opinion is that you wouldn't play/allow it. No one said you couldn't express opinions.

Speaking for myself, I never said it was impossible. *points to my above posts* But all that? That would happen. Such a character could be a Shadowrunner, but not a very successful one. She'd find it hard to find work, she's almost certainly miscarry or lose the baby along the way... and her dream of leveraging her pregnancy into some sort of warped advantage would die, like the cold thing now in her womb. But I would warn the player first, and permit the character only if he/she pushed the issue.
Yerameyahu
I agree, bad things would happen. But that's never been a reason to stop dumb players before. smile.gif

Nope, that's not at all hypocrisy. I just reminding what the OP asked.
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 6 2010, 05:54 PM) *
What SR rule is being ignored? Can you name even one rule that would indicate that it is impossible for someone that is pregnant to run?

Okay, if you accept that people in the SR universe regard pregnant women like people do now, and have historically, then many people wouldn't take her seriously or would consider her an actual liability. (How many countries allow soldiers/police? How many would hire mercs?) Barring some grand enlightenment not hinted at in the setting, of course. Also, Shadowrun is a dark and gritty setting where misfortune is more likely than a happy ending, and that would include pregnancy. That's the fluff.

Okay, rules time. Is the baby part of the woman's body? If yes, then trauma to the body almost always affects the baby. If this is so, damage taken from drain would count as bodily trauma, correct? If the body suffers damage, so likely does the baby, unless you want to make a special-case exception for just fetuses. I'm not, and so I draw the reasonable conclusion that enough drain = something resembling tomato-based stew leaking out of her uterus. Making a magician that remains pregnant long pretty damned unlikely.

So there is no rule in the rulebook specifically regarding the viability of pregnant runners. Of course, there's no rule specifically saying characters can't fly with the power of their minds. That's where common sense comes in, reading between the lines to arrive at a reasonable conclusion. I actually presented a brief scenario in an above post in which pregnancy can be an interesting angle for a character, so I didn't say it was impossible. But it would be very, very hard. And the OP isn't taking into account a lot of things he should, and worried about stuff that matters less (like how many character points pregnancy might be worth).

QUOTE
That said, I do agree that it is likely a bad concept for a runner that isn't a hacker/rigger, because it is difficult to imagine being this desperate for cash and not simply having an abortion or doing something (prostitution? Anything at all with a lower chance of being gunned down?) less likely to kill the unborn child.

*nods* Kinda my thinking. And even hackers aren't immune. Black Ice can't be good on a fetus, fer instance...
Karoline
QUOTE (I Hate All Life @ May 6 2010, 08:11 PM) *
I actually presented a brief scenario in an above post in which pregnancy can be an interesting angle for a character, so I didn't say it was impossible.
I see where you said it was possible, but I can't find where you presented a scenario, maybe just missing it in the quick reading, which post # was it? I am curious what your idea of a viable pregnant character is.

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*nods* Kinda my thinking. And even hackers aren't immune. Black Ice can't be good on a fetus, fer instance...


Just need to not run hot sim and you're immune to Black ICe if I remember right, aren't you? You are right though, it isn't risk free, but it might not even be that risky compared to walking down the street in SR, depending on where you live and especially your metatype.
I Hate All Life
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 6 2010, 06:27 PM) *
I see where you said it was possible, but I can't find where you presented a scenario, maybe just missing it in the quick reading, which post # was it? I am curious what your idea of a viable pregnant character is.


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Now, as far as using pregnancy as an angle for character development, sure. Swearing off the magic along with the booze and smokes, or not having cybernetics implanted, can seriously cram a runner's style. Prenatal drugs and therapy can help, perhaps she can get a bioware implant designed to protect the child and increase the chances of carrying the child to term. Low-risk hacking is doable, though nothing with bad IC that will fuck her up. She won't be able to contribute much to the group, but her priority should be her baby, even if runs are what's paying her bills. (But that's not what your player is trying to do, at least from what you've said, Bif. Which I'd personally find disappointing.)

T'was me. smile.gif Not much, and it's more hurdles than concept, but I think it can make for an interesting character twist if done right.

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Just need to not run hot sim and you're immune to Black ICe if I remember right, aren't you? You are right though, it isn't risk free, but it might not even be that risky compared to walking down the street in SR, depending on where you live and especially your metatype.

Good point. So hacker/rigger is viable. smile.gif Probably not Technomancer though because of fading.
svenftw
My rule of thumb when I am running a game and a player comes to me with a troubling concept is to think if I've ever seen it in a movie.

Pregnant woman in a firefight? Saw that one in Shoot 'Em Up. I'd allow it if I had confidence that the player wouldn't ruin the game with it.
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