Where are the rules for concealed cyberguns? You know, the kind of thing that pops our from a cyberlimb.

Cyber-implant weapons start on page 344 of SR4A and AFAIK follow all the normal rules for weapons of the appropriate type.

Guns in a cyber holster or a cyber arm slide take a Perception + Intuition (4) Test to spot.

The cyberimplant guns are hidden and made of non-metallic compounds. When it says they become obvious after a clip is slotted, it implies that they're at *least* as hidden as the holstered or slide-mounted weapons, no? When you're using the internal magazine that all cyberguns have, it sounds like they're wholly concealed.

For that matter, they don't 'pop out', they just fire through the palm, or the hand swings away from the wrist. Very sneaky.

I think it's more cinematic to have some sort of gun pop out of the arm on hydraulics, fire, then slide back inside. Something like Robocop's concealed leg holster would be cool too.

Anyway, the concealability of a regular cybergun opens up new concerns. If a runner has a cyberarm, it's not enough to have him hand over his pistols, he might still have a gun in there. You'd have to do a very careful x-ray scan looking for a hand port or a little bullet shape somewhere in his arm. If he's covered over the port and doesn't mind taking some pain by blowing through his real skin after the metallic port in his hand opens underneath the skin, then it'd be very difficult to detect. I can see a paranoid mob boss not letting a character with a cyberlimb into his presence.

And here I was thinking it was super cinematic to have a rocket shooting out of your kneecap or something. There is a scene in the first FMA that demonstrates that rather well when he fights the girl with two automail legs.

Very true, especially given that you can't generally x-ray a person thanks to x-rays being somewhat on the dangerous side, and so unlikely to be used on people (willingly).

Also, what are you talking about real skin? Cyberarms and legs lack real skin, or even synthetic skin for that mater.

I'd think the paranoid mob boss would be more likely to simply have a bodyguard stand on either side and just in front of him to take the bullet, and a half dozen other guards with weapons trained on anyone with a cyberlimb who therefore might be carrying a concealed weapon.

That's true. They've got cyberware scanners for a reason.

That too.

Actually, Synthetic Limbs have actual Synthetic Skin covering the works... which is why they are called... Synthetic... they are not obvious...

Keep the Faith

I think he meant that you can get a cybergun in a meat limb. If you're crazy.

Very Crazy Indeed... they have essence costs, so it is possible...

Keep the Faith

Ah, I'd always kind of wondered about that. I thought it was more that they were smoother, sleaker, and looked more like a metahuman arm instead of being big and bulky and oddly shaped so it looked real under clothing and such. Still, the addition of some synthetic skin doesn't surprise me any.

I think it's all good under clothing. Synthetics have pink plasti-rubber. Bleh.

Yeah, although in SR2, they didn't. FASA had compiled a few pages of Sourcebook Updates to include in the back of the SR2 core rulebook to bring all the SR1 material in line with the new edition. The updates for the Street Samurai Catalog included the line, "Cyberguns no longer cost essence. Merry Christmas." However, the fact that the associated artwork showed a cross section of a meat arm with an implanted gun lead a lot of players to miss the part of the item description that said it was "designed for installation in a cyberarm". So they later added essence costs back, and clarified that Christmas is only for people who apply the cyberlimb built-in-device rules to guns.

Or if you find a delta clinic. - Been there, done that.

One question I have about cyberguns, is that they're automatically smartguns, according to SR4 (don't know which page, AFB) but Laser Sights are available.

As for External Clip Ports making the gun obvious, I would say that the clip sticking out of your wrist would be obvious, but that's all they would see.

Er, yes. The ammo clip sticking out of your wrist makes it obvious that there is a gun hidden in your arm.

No, it's totally the latest fashion craze. Don't you know anything about fashion?

I totally want Barret's arm from Advent Children.

Three miniguns surrounding a central beam rifle, all apparently hidden inside his normal sized arm when not in use.






-karma

I can beat that: Vash's Angel Arm from Trigun. Full stop.

Yeah, but he's some funky plant guy.




-karma

True, it's a lot cheaper to just glue a clip to your wrist than it is to get an actual gun.

"No, Officer, it's a giant watch!"

Would your everyday layman even know what the heck a watch is? Even now a days not alot of (young) people have a watch because they always have their cell phone to tell the time.

Yes, it's only when the clip is slotted that it's obvious.

I'm totally doing this in the next game I run (coming up, actually). It's a game for SR virgins, so I think having fake ammo clips sticking out of your wrist will be precisely the right fashion among the street folks and corp kiddies; it should help give a feeling for the setting. Does the guy holding you up with a clip coming out of his wrist and his hand pointed at you actually have a gun, or is he just bluffing?

Synthetic Cyberlimbs are Threshold 3 to detect visually. This assumes they are not covered in clothing, which could up the Threshold to a 4 or even 5 (there should always be a chance to detect something unnatural about the movements, or lack of same). Detection by touch is automatic, so if you shake hands with the guy with a Deltaware Synthetic Cyberhand, you'll automatically notice even if you have Intuition 1 and no Perception. Don't really care for this last bit.

So you do not allow the handshake, or any physical contact for that matter... There are a lot of cultures that frown upon physical contact (Asian Cultures, as well as some Middle Eastern ones, are reknowned for this attitude) between people that are not intimate... Problem Solved...

AS for the Technology... There are Drones that are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly human looking and feeling (The Pleasure Model Ottomo for example)... I see an application of this technology for cyber limbs as probably available, for a price that is... Use the Mimic Optioon Level 3, and use the modification slots as capacity for the limbs in question... I assume that teh cost and capacity are in the Arsenal Erratta...
Keep the Faith

Problem sidestepped by going for the handshake specific, but the issue is certainly not solved. You can't avoid all contact, such as pat-downs. If you're Deltaware is so good it can reliably avoid setting off cyberware scanners, why can't they make it good enough to feel like flesh to the touch?

They can... you just have to take further steps is all... Like I said, the Ottomo passes both with flying colors (There is a sexual pleasure model after all), and is only twigged by Assensing from a Magically Aware character...

It can be done... it is just rarely very cost effective...

Keep the Faith

See, I said it would be cool, but I just sort of missed Yeramevahu saying that there are cyber holsters. SR4A p344. Great, wonderful.