IKerensky
Jun 3 2010, 07:31 AM
After all this talk about Delta-ware avaliability I am wondering what happened to Gamma-ware ?
Medicineman
Jun 3 2010, 07:45 AM
There has never been any Gamma Ware
(only Gamma World from TSR but that is something completely different
)
with a Dance that has never been there
Medicineman
IKerensky
Jun 3 2010, 07:58 AM
Yes, but why so ?
There is a whole fraking letter missing right there !!!
Stahlseele
Jun 3 2010, 08:09 AM
because for the rest of the world having something in your alphabet with g before d sounds wrong.
karhig
Jun 3 2010, 08:36 AM
Then where is my Cookieware? C is for cookie, after all.
FriendoftheDork
Jun 3 2010, 08:37 AM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 3 2010, 10:09 AM)
because for the rest of the world having something in your alphabet with g before d sounds wrong.
lol! Mad world indeed.
Maybe the question should be: Where is the Charlie-ware?
Ah this is getting all Greek to me.
Blade
Jun 3 2010, 08:37 AM
And after Deltaware it jumps directly to Omegaware
(and then there's the Tupperware).
FriendoftheDork
Jun 3 2010, 08:40 AM
QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 3 2010, 10:37 AM)
And after Deltaware it jumps directly to Omegaware
(and then there's the Tupperware).
No Partyware in between? Wolfware?
IKerensky
Jun 3 2010, 08:43 AM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 3 2010, 09:09 AM)
because for the rest of the world having something in your alphabet with g before d sounds wrong.
I suppose this is a joke where you forgot the smiley :
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, Iota, Kappa, Lambda...
If you care using greek alphabet for naming thing you have to respect the correct order. Especially in computer world, after the Alpha and Beta phase you got to Gamma phase, you dont just jump to Delta...
Saint Sithney
Jun 3 2010, 09:48 AM
That's how much better Delta ware is than Beta.
It's beyond the next logical step.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 3 2010, 09:51 AM
Which, due to the Beta rebate reduction in SR4, is true:
Alpha is 20% off, Beta 30% (used to be 40%) and Delta 50%.
So there is room for Gamma Ware with 40% off in SR4.
Samoth
Jun 3 2010, 10:41 AM
I think Gamma was mentioned WAY back in the Street Samurai Catalog as a rumor. That's about 20 years ago, so I'm not sure why cyberware technology hasn't made a leap to the next level yet (honestly, Delta is still a GM call? Uh, ok.)
RunnerPaul
Jun 3 2010, 12:39 PM
I always thought that FASA skipped over Gamma because they didn't want to tempt the wrath of Marvel Comics' Legal Department. You know, a lawyer having a knee-jerk reaction when hearing about a game with "Gamma" implants making someone stronger or giving them better reflexes. Sure, it's not the same as the Gamma radiation responsible for the Incredible Hulk & Spiderman, but they just might not be willing to see the distinction.
Sounds outlandish, true, but this is the same company that had to re-name one of its gamelines "BattleTech" because Lucasfilm took exception to them using the name "BattleDroids".
LurkerOutThere
Jun 3 2010, 12:51 PM
I doubt it, you say Gamma to most people and they don't think hulk I had to actually give it some thought to figure out what you were on about.
I was going to put in my obligatory rant about cybertech not advancing in any meaningful way and still being ridiculously expensive and having wierd drawbacks and a very firm ceiling, but I'm honestly tired of it.
Stahlseele
Jun 3 2010, 01:13 PM
i'm not.
i wanna read it.
post it!
Dr.Rockso
Jun 3 2010, 03:41 PM
They mention gamma clinics in Cybertechnology(maybe not? The one with Hatchetman, anyways) if that helps. I don't think they got rid of it for legal reasons; Marvel really would not have a case.
Kanada Ten
Jun 3 2010, 03:45 PM
Simple: Marketing. Delta sounds much sexier than Gamma. Gamma is something old ladies would get.
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 3 2010, 03:54 PM
Nice
Honestly,
if there was a Gamma option, first off, what would be the difference? Alpha is more high end quality, not just the off the shelf stuff. Delta is completely custom designed and tailored for the recipient. Beta's like the luxury car model in between. Why bother with a Gamma if Delta is going to be the top end? You're already way past the point of affordability. To be more advanced than Beta it would have to be almost completely custom anyway.
Daylen
Jun 3 2010, 10:23 PM
lambda ware is the best
Draco18s
Jun 3 2010, 10:29 PM
QUOTE (Daylen @ Jun 3 2010, 06:23 PM)
lambda ware is the best
No, Omegaware is. Omega being the last letter in the Greek alphabet.
Yerameyahu
Jun 3 2010, 10:34 PM
Psh, logic.
Tanegar
Jun 3 2010, 10:36 PM
QUOTE (Daylen @ Jun 3 2010, 05:23 PM)
lambda ware is the best
No, lambdaware causes Earth to be invaded by interdimensional aliens.
Daylen
Jun 3 2010, 10:37 PM
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Jun 3 2010, 11:36 PM)
No, lambdaware causes Earth to be invaded by interdimensional aliens.
That's WHY its the best!
last_of_the_great_mikeys
Jun 4 2010, 12:06 AM
I prefer chocoware.
Doc Byte
Jun 4 2010, 12:23 AM
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 4 2010, 12:29 AM)
No, Omegaware is. Omega being the last letter in the Greek alphabet.
You know Omegaware causes no essence loss at all, do you?
Daylen
Jun 4 2010, 01:40 AM
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jun 4 2010, 12:23 AM)
You know Omegaware causes no essence loss at all, do you?
...but it causes manhood shrinkage....
Yerameyahu
Jun 4 2010, 01:41 AM
No worries, Omegaware penile implant.
I don't even know why they wasted book space on that stuff.
Daylen
Jun 4 2010, 01:42 AM
That's no fun, might as well join the borg...
Medicineman
Jun 4 2010, 06:57 AM
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jun 3 2010, 08:23 PM)
You know Omegaware causes no essence loss at all, do you?
But ist a little Cold ,deepfrozen as it is
He who dances with a Map in his Underpants
Medicineman
Sengir
Jun 4 2010, 08:31 AM
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 4 2010, 02:41 AM)
No worries, Omegaware penile implant.
I don't even know why they wasted book space on that stuff.
For the same reason they "waste" book space on intro fiction, plotlines, excursuses on racism and the public perception of magic...
Smokeskin
Jun 4 2010, 08:49 AM
When you say gamma, people think of radiation. That's why.
Sengir
Jun 4 2010, 09:02 AM
What about Alpha and Beta tehn?
Medicineman
Jun 4 2010, 09:14 AM
QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jun 4 2010, 04:49 AM)
When you say gamma, people think of radiation. That's why.
Only those "Nerds" that read Marvel Comics
Some might Think nothing at all and If you're in Bavaria
Gamma sounds like Gemma which means "Lets Go"
with lots of different Dances
Medicineman
Smokeskin
Jun 4 2010, 09:31 AM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 4 2010, 10:02 AM)
What about Alpha and Beta tehn?
People don't think of that as radiation.
Sengir
Jun 4 2010, 12:11 PM
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jun 4 2010, 09:14 AM)
Only those "Nerds" that read Marvel Comics
Some might Think nothing at all and If you're in Bavaria
Gamma sounds like Gemma which means "Lets Go"
with lots of different Dances
Medicineman
Well, I tend to ignore Bavarian language atrocities, just like their views on marrying lifestock
And I've never met a person who knew about Gamma radiation but not about the other two...
KarmaInferno
Jun 4 2010, 04:03 PM
QUOTE (Samoth @ Jun 3 2010, 05:41 AM)
(honestly, Delta is still a GM call? Uh, ok.)
Deltaware will always be a GM's call.
By the time 'ware becomes commonplace enough that you don't need to find a Delta clinic to get it from, it's not Deltaware anymore.
-karma
Brazilian_Shinobi
Jun 4 2010, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jun 3 2010, 09:23 PM)
You know Omegaware causes no essence loss at all, do you?
And it would cost both arms, legs and eyes to get just one, so...
Bull
Jun 4 2010, 04:24 PM
I think it was originally a goof on the writers part. Someone got their greek alphabet mixed up. That, or they just decided it sounded cooler. I'm not really certain about that. But I remember this being asked to Mike Mulvihill once upon a time, and his answer then (and it's been my stock answer since) is that Gammaware was a failed experiment, and the corps went to the next grade up instead.
In my "world". Gamma was released to the market, and was indeed a stepping stone between Beta and Delta. It used some experimental polymers, but after only a couple weeks on the "open market", they found that there was a relatively high chance of delayed cyber-implant rejection by the body. It wasn't really that bad, only like 1 or 2% of all metahumans, but the media got ahold of the story and blew it out of proportion. Gammaware was a PR disaster, so most of the corps scrapped it.
Bull
DireRadiant
Jun 4 2010, 04:26 PM
gamma ware = new coke
Saint Sithney
Jun 4 2010, 07:03 PM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 4 2010, 01:02 AM)
What about Alpha and Beta tehn?
I usually wonder, "
Who is this doing this synthetic type of alpha-beta psychedelic funkin?"
Moto42 Again
Jun 4 2010, 08:26 PM
Rather than ask "Why isn't there any Gammaware?" isn't it more fun to make your own in-game reasons? (Just like Bull.)
In my game...
Alpha and betaware are just refinements of known-to-work, standard cybertech, while delta is the top of the line, plus a huge amount of personal attention to tailor it to you. Years down the road, the delta gear sammies drool over will be considered cheap, alpha stuff.
Gammaware was going to be an exception to the "varying levels of quality" trend. Some clever researcher had the idea of grafting a symbiotic bioware arm (or other appendage) to a normal person. Then you implant cyber into the symbiotic arm-critter. The arm was, technically, an independent creature all on it's own. It required a host to live, but it had it's own nervous and circulatory systems that would link into those of the host. Thus (it was hoped) the symbiont would take the essence-hit rather than the host and the strain of accepting the symbiont would be far less than the cost of the arm.
Years of research later and it worked. Gammaware had an essence cost only 25% that of directly installing the cyber into a user and sometimes as low as 10%! Then the problems started.
It appears that the just-shy-of-mindless symbiotic appendages had about as much defense against magic as a brick, and (being a separate entity from their host) could be targeted by combat and other magics independently of him. Physical attacks were not much of a problem, but anything that was resisted by Willpower would blow through them like a hot knife through butter. They were especially susceptible to possession.
The appearance of shedim in the sixth world was the ultimate death knell for Gammaware. Everyone knew that shedim could only inhabit dead bodies, so it took some time to figure out why 90% of test subjects were suddenly developing alien hand syndrome and some were complaining of hallucinatory voices. It wasn't until one subject tried to escape the lab, but was found to have no pulse that anyone figured out what was going on. It appeared that the subjects arm had strangled him in the night, allowing him to be fully possessed by the spirit.
Today little to no research in this direction is being done and the research data from this project is kept under tight wraps. The data it was stolen and distributed by and among various corps though, so it is possible that a few specimens and some interesting notes could be found by your runners.
--------------------
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
last_of_the_great_mikeys
Jun 4 2010, 09:22 PM
Moto42, you have been watching Evil Dead 2, haven't you?
Mongoose
Jun 4 2010, 09:53 PM
QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Jun 3 2010, 04:45 PM)
Simple: Marketing. Delta sounds much sexier than Gamma. Gamma is something old ladies would get.
I can't remember where I heard the quote, but it's along the lines of "special-ops types have a hard-on for anything with the word 'delta' in its name."
Moto42 Again
Jun 4 2010, 11:14 PM
QUOTE (last_of_the_great_mikeys @ Jun 4 2010, 04:22 PM)
Moto42, you have been watching Evil Dead 2, haven't you?
Not for a while.
Teulisch
Jun 5 2010, 12:07 AM
now im thinkin about omega-ware.... ritual magic to implant, made partialy from orichilium metal, with no essence loss. expensive as heck, and very mage-friendly.... yeah. that would turn things on their head all right. i can see a dragon investing heavily in that sort of thing.
Stahlseele
Jun 5 2010, 12:11 AM
And that is EXACTLY the reason why such stuff should never happen.
Mages that can get all the advantages of implants without disadvantages . .
Or do people really WANT Adept/Mage-Run?
Moto42 Again
Jun 5 2010, 05:16 AM
Don't the rules already allow for an Adept/Mage cross?
Draco18s
Jun 5 2010, 05:19 AM
QUOTE (Moto42 Again @ Jun 5 2010, 01:16 AM)
Don't the rules already allow for an Adept/Mage cross?
Yes, but not with them all fully cybered too.
knasser
Jun 5 2010, 06:43 AM
Most modern Americans couldn't tell the order of the first few letters of the Greek alphabet. I doubt that improved in the future of Shadowrun.
The scene in a marketing department probably went as follows:
"Our new line of cyberware is definitely a cut above the standard stuff. Let's call it 'Alphaware'"
"Ooh, like that."
A little later...
"This is really top stuff. What can we call it?"
"AlphaPlus! Uh, AlphaAlpha.... Wait - Betaware!"
"Nice!"
Across the world in some top-clinic.
"Mr. Lee., we've taken the very best ware available and we've used a few cutting edge techniques to customise it to your body. You're going to be very happy with your betaware grade implants."
"Wait, it's just betaware like everyone else's? But I want the best!"
"Well, betaware is very good, the difference is that our revolutionary implant techniques will minimise..."
"I'm not paying five times as much just for you to take longer to finish the job. I want the best!"
"Uh, okay. Wait there a few moments".
surgeon leaves room, hands implant to assistant. "Go spray this fucker gold and monogram it or something"
returns to room
"Okay, we're not supposed to release this yet, but we've got you the next grade up from betaware."
"Oooh, what's it called?"
Vaguely recalls high school maths lessons
"Deltaware!"
Bull
Jun 5 2010, 06:59 AM
To be fair, I'd bet that's relatively common in a lot of places, not just the US. And honestly, no reason why the average American should know it. It's not something that needs to be known, or is something that most people would ever actually use, and AFAIK isn't in the standard school curriculum.
But yes, that's likely to get even worse as time goes on.
But, for your example above? If anyone would know it in Shadowrun, I'd bet a doctor would. Greek and Latin both come up quite a bit in medical terminology, I believe.
Bull
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.