So, for all you Shadowrun GM's: how do you feel about explicitly built "joke" or "gag" characters?

i.e., characters whose set of traits and qualities set up for an elaborate, recurring gag throughout the character's appearance in the game?

I ask because I have a player who's generally really good with deep characterization and story ideas, who presented me a new character she wants to play - a Social Adept/"pornomancer" build.

Detailed background, interesting character, lots of real aspirations and interesting story hooks, awesome. As usual, every stat on the character sheet is annotated with the details of what it means to her, how it works, what's unique about that Attribute/Skill/Quality/whatever for her, and maybe a little backstory about it.

Until I cross-correlate a few background bits and See What She Did There.

- The character is a Changeling Dryad Social Adept. Okay, no problem - I specifically stated that I wanted min-maxing and would welcome unique takes on powerful builds, and handed out some house-rule character creation rules that would allow for more powerful characters. Natural Charisma 12 after all the stacked SURGE and geneware and Adept bonuses.

- She's built as your typical "pornomancer", but with an excellent backstory. Exotic dancer/escort trying to put herself through college, who SURGEd and Awakened as the result of a glitched geneware and cosmetic surgery treatment to improve her "stage presence".

- Then I notice her SURGE and other negative qualities, and the notes therein:

Metagenic:
Adiposis (gigantomastia - elven "supermodel" build; Adiposis deposits fat exclusively in the breasts. Mechanical penalties should be the same.)
Impaired Body (her immune system, circulation, and skeleton are strained from dealing with the extra mass)
Normal:
Distinctive Style (You walk around with an 180ZZZ-21-34 figure and see if you can make it from one end of the supermarket to the other without being harrassed. Did not add BP for this, just noting it.)
Addiction: Painkillers / moderate (serious, serious back problems, even with the adept augmentations.)

And then she throws a bunch of links to "extreme big bust" pornstar pictures and internet renders.


So, my dilemma:

1. I can laugh and tell her, "no, I don't want you to play this character, but the idea was hilarious."
2. I can accept the character, and turn the campaign into a high-camp H-anime.
3. I can accept the character, and play everything completely straight, and possibly a little tragic or horrific on occasion.

Which way would you go?

I guess if you were playing a joke game? Bleh.

Funny idea. If you don't want to play a completely joke campaign, I'd let her keep the general idea. But, I'd tone down the actual character a little bit. Knocking over things with your boobs all the time is only funny until it starts getting completely out of hand and preventing other things from happening in-game.

First off, I would appreciate that I had a player who wanted to play Shadowrun.
Then I would appreciate that I had a player who was willing to devote so much time and energy into making their character.
Then I would think it was great that she put as much effort into the background of her character as to the mechanical side of things.

This is about the point that I, personally, would have a good laugh with the player.

Then ideally we would both talk to the other players who are also there to have fun playing Shadowrun.
We would talk about it with them and see if they were interested in playing a less serious game, one that was a bit tongue in cheek. It could also be a great opportunity for the more power gaming inclined players to get their more extreme min-maxed builds off their chest.

However, if the other players weren't interested in that kind of gameplay and didn't think they would have fun... then ideally the first player would be mature and accept that. We would have a good laugh, and then move on to a different kind of game.


*shrug* But that's just me. Every game (and it's players/GMs) are different.

You did that on purpose. *glares*

Huh. So, speaking with her more at-length, it appears she doesn't actually want to run it as a "gag" character.

She basically wants a tragedy - an ex-stripper/hooker with a body that absolutely CANNOT be taken seriously or seen as anything but a sex-object, trying desperately to get people to deal with her as a human being.

She wants to add Day Job (still stripping/doing escort, because at least she knows what to expect and doesn't have to expect anything more) and Bi-polar (up when "performing", down when having to go out in public and deal with people *staring* at her) to her Negative Qualities.

I asked her what she'll do if the other players (most of whom are boys) treat it like a gag, and she says "that's exactly what I'm expecting; the tragedy of fighting that is kind of the point."

Hahaha, maybe. And also maybe because I can make those kind of builds for fun, and sometimes would love to play in a less-than-serious game where I could just whip them out for funzies (are they calling those Pink Mohawk games now?). It wasn't meant to be a jab at power gamers, as I happen to be one. But it's just a style of gameplay, one which would fit well with a more off the wall campaign.

Sometimes those kind of games are fun, especially when you are used to more serious games. Other times it's just great fun to get together with some friends and crack jokes and do some crazy shit.

IMHO, different styles of gameplay aren't better than others. They are just different. But that's a discussion for a different thread, lol.
As long as everyone is playing the game and having fun, that's what matters. Even if sometimes it's hard to come up with a compromise.


If there was any dig in my original reply, it just stemmed from the fact that I can NEVER find local players for Shadowrun, ever. I have a hard enough time finding D&D players (Pathfinder right now, actually).
I thought I got some people interested lately, but then they eventually decided against it. ARRRGH!

So I'm sorry if I sound a little jealous to the OP, just because he actually has players for a Shadowrun game, lol

I just have to say... that sounds like an amazing player you have right there. And smart, knowing the guys in the group and how she can play it to her advantage.
And she's a gamer girl... which always wins points for me!

It's funny though, because in a semi-regular game of D&D I play in... and have for years.... we are all 30ish, and the majority of the players just happen to be girls. And they are the nastiest of the bunch!
Sometime I want to try a drinking game one night, and take shots every time one of them says 'Penis'. I'd be falling off my chair drunk within a half hour, I'm sure..... *sigh*

Haha, but I love them. They are a fun bunch. Now if only I could get them to play Shadowrun!

So get them to. It's not that hard.

Find out what sorts of movies/TV shows/fiction they like. Figure out what kinds of character tropes are fun for them. Build them characters based on those tropes. Like, build the characters yourself, but putting yourself in their shoes in terms of what's "fun". Then make a story around those characters.

Hand out all the character sheets, sit down, and say "we're going to try this."

I've found that the best way to introduce a new game is to focus on the story, and manage all the start-up mechanics yourself. Once they're hooked, you can convince them to learn more of the rules.

Hmmm... thanks for the advice. I might try that.
My main problem is that I have one or two particular players who stubbornly and outright refuse to play anything but D&D. Like, they won't even give it a chance at all.
Hell... it was hard enough to get them on board with Pathfinder, and heaven forbid I convince them to play a game that's not set in the Forgotten Realms.

I've made some headway lately, but it's been an uphill battle that has taken years.


EDIT: Another problem is that these dame players HATE HATE HATE the idea of pre-gen characters, and ESPECIALLY hate someone else making their character for them. Hmmm..

Okay, so don't invite those two. Let everyone else enjoy the Shadowrun game, then tell them how much fun they're having.

Could work... except I mentioned that most of the players were girls? There are some couples in the group that would not play apart from their SO, even if their SO is the problem.

*shrug*

I'm not THAT worried about it. I guess I cosigned myself to not being able to play locally for a while now. Eventually I might get into an internet game, but we'll see.
Either way, I still support Shadowrun and buy all the books. Still a great read, and it's a fun mental exercise to hack out new characters once in a while.

*nod* there's always going to be some kind of difficulties.

So, it looks like I've got:

- a Stripperific girl with massive... ahem... self-esteem issues, specced almost entirely for negotiation.
- a troll tank with all the cyber fixin's, specced for vehicle rigging, heavy weaponry, and close combat.
- an ex-simsense star/stuntman, specced for infiltration and espionage.
- A dwarf hacker/rigger/tinkerer who builds custom motorcycles, custom firearms and custom drones.

Now I just need a good story.

Also: Am I reading "Adiposis" right? ANY physical activity gains a -3 dice pool modifier?

I'm with them on that.

Huh, you know it seems to me with the proper sort of custom armor, it could take some of the *ahem* weight off her chest. I mean I'm uh.. decently endowed myself and have the back pain problem- except when I'm in a properly made overbust corset. They even offer those in SR with armor ratings

Edit: additionally if she earned any amount of money well.. they do have reduction surgeries even now for a reason.

One point: make sure that the game doesn't end up becoming completely centered around Gigantagirl. She's a very distincitive character, and if would be very easy for the game to end up being the reactions of various PCs and NPCs to her, with everyone else getting a little bit out of the limelight.

Also note that having such a ridiculous build could easily lend penalties to a lot of social interactions, as people don't take her seriously.

You have my interest.

Since she got them with a negative quality, mere money is not enough. She would have to spend karma as well or they would grow back.

Not necessarily. There's precedent for using nuyen to wave away negative qualities - augmentation's Allergy Immunization. It costs 5 grand a build point, so the effective cost is the same as removing it with karma.

Also, Zonga, this character sounds hilarious, and you need to tell us how the game goes.

Thank you for that nightmare fuel, sir. Regenerating fandangos that could crush someone.

Sounds like a fun group!

BTW, I'm assuming this is a local table-top game.... but on the off-chance, I have to ask... are you running it online?

*waggles eyebrows*

the more attention she can draw, the less the others will get. that's pretty much a Runner's dream

It looks like that's exactly how the rest of the group plans to run it.

...Does she get a bonus to swimming?

Or impact armour?

Yep. Pretty much everything Enhanced Articulation gives a bonus to, it gives a penalty to. Not only is moving more difficult (poor balance, discomfort) but in her case she's literally got trouble using her arms to manipulate things in front of her. You might ignore the penalty for some AR tasks, since you could configure the controls for minimal mobility / range of motion, but chances are she's gonna prefer VR tasks (and social rolls, etc- non physical rolls). (And no, there's no bonus to swimming. Swimming takes endurance, which she lacks in spades. However, there' are swimming adjustments for body type, so those would apply.)

Honestly, if being "taken seriously" is her goal, why doesn't she just go for an immersion lifestyle? Nobody knows you're Barbie in the matrix (unless you pick that as your avatar, which probably a lot of folks do).

Don't forget that Combat is also going to be penalized... look at the description of the Quality (it includes combat specifically)... it does not apply to Physical Skills, but to physical skills (anything with a physical skill link)

As for being in an Immersion Lifestyle, A Negative Quality that is not a drawback (has no impact on the character) should not be allowed... If you are always in the matrix, then the quality is just free points. From the way it sounded, she is looking forward to the challenges that the quality is going to impose upon her.

Keep the Faith

Well, having played through the first game, I'm definitely going for a "serious" interpretation - which the rest of the players are having an interesting time trying to deal with.

Felicity Ambrose - aka "Trixi Juggs" (current stage name, still working on a shadow name) - changeling social adept.
John Manyard - aka "Lips" - troll samurai.
Parson Walkenber - aka "Panther" - the human infiltration expert.
Wilson Smith - aka "Blitz" - dwarf hacker

Lips has a mission he just picked up, and needs to put a team together. He knows he'll need reconnaissance assets, and that he's being hired for his professionalism. He's meeting the Johnson tonight to get the full details.

Felicity just found out that she needs another 180,000 nuyen to cover surgery and gene therapy to fix her condition, and has decided that there's no way she's going to get that legally. She answered Lips' ad, and is intending to pretend to be a shadowrunner to get an "in" to the biz.

Blitz and Panther are bored, and answered the ad so they could blow stuff up.

They arranged to meet at the strip joint where Felicity works; Lips and Panther played "face" while Felicity, on-the-clock, distracted the hell out of him and got him to slip up what the run was actually about. Meanwhile, Blitz hacked into the Johnson's commlink while he was distracted, and did some digging in the corporate network. Turns out they're being paid to find and kill employee's son that got kidnapped by an eco-terrorist gang, before the police find him and return him "safe and sound". The Johnson's trying to make it out to just be a "hit this eco-terrorist gang with as much firepower as you can muster, to let them know to not mess with our assets".

After taking the mission, they get into an in-character argument about how to handle things. Felicity wants to rescue the kid and find out why the corp wants him killed instead of returned; Blitz and Panther just want to geek everybody, get the money and call it good. Felicity and Panther get into a shouting match over the value of human life, while Blitz showers Felicity with crude sexual innuendo.

Then Felicity turns on Attribute Boost (Strength) and breaks Blitz's nose and all the fingers on his left hand, and Lips reminds everyone of the "no wetwork" clause he demanded when he signed onto the team. They all agree to grab the kid alive, and only kill the eco-terrorists if they fight back, and then only in-battle.

So we've already got a great characterization, but a shitty team dynamic - Felicity is the rank, naive newbie; Lips is the seasoned professional; Blitz is the psychotic low-life and Panther is the cold sociopath.

Lips pulls Felicity aside, and explains to her that she's obviously smart and capable, but he's not sure if she's cut out for this line of work. She gives him a VERY sharp, vicious speech about being taken seriously, and rolls an absurd amount of hits on both her Con and her Intimidate rolls (social adept, remember). Lips is impressed, and then tells her that Blitz and Panther are likely to get her killed, and to not trust any decision they make.

Blitz finishes tinkering with the team's van, while Panther finds their hideout and scouts it out. Turns out the kid's gone all Patty Hearst, and is helping them lead attacks on daddy's corporations. Felicity schmoozes some of daddy's corporate buddies, and finds out that he's working on genemod crops, and that his supervisor is PISSED that he's letting family matters get in the way of his productivity. The corp wants his kid to die and his wife to divorce him, so he'll throw himself into his work via grief and "maybe we can all make deadline this quarter".

Panther roughs the kid up, brutally incapacitates him, and drags him back to the hideout, which makes Felicity LIVID. They contract a street mage to come heal the kid up, blowing all their advance money doing so. The kid comes to and gets grabby with Felicity, which Blitz finds absolutely fucking HILARIOUS.

Felicity fumes that she can't beat the shit out of the kid, so she beats the shit out of Blitz again for laughing. Then Lips calls the kid's dad, and tells him to come to Felicity's night-club for information about his son.

Lips and Felicity negotiate with the dad that night - they explain that they were paid by the dad's corporation to kill the kid, but they don't do that kind of work; they can get him the kid, but they need to eat, and offer to hand him over in exchange for the Johnson's original offer. Once he gets over the fact that he's talking to an absurd-looking stripper, Felicity is VERY persuasive.

The money and package change hands, everyone gets paid, and no one dies. Then Blitz and Panther inform me that, while Felicity and Lips were making the deal, they went ahead and attacked the eco-terrorists. Felicity panics, and Lips burns with a cold rage. They race to the scene on Lips' bike, to find that Blitz and Panther wiped out the whole gang. Lips pulls out a pistol and coldly kills Blitz and Panther, the players freak out a little, and then Felicity and Lips plant the Johnson's calling-card on Panther, torch the place, and call the Johnson to let them know the job's done.

Felicity is confused that Lips just *killed* two of their teammates, especially since he doesn't do wetwork. Lips explains that he was putting down two rabid animals who had already murdered, and to never let anyone like that loose on the streets. Then they ditch the gun and call the cops anonymously.

We then sit down as players, and discuss the kind of characters that Felicity and Lips' players want to play with, and the kind they DON'T. It goes surprisingly well.

Holy crap.

PvP in the first session, ending with one of the characters ganking the other two? And the session ended 'suprisingly well'??

Wow....

*shrugs*
i am regularly this close to killing one to 4 team members . .
i usually get one of the other players or characters to talk me out of it <.<

Now That is totally awesome... Way to go...

Keep the Faith

Did you get payed by Johnson for torching the place too?

You know, I'm usually vehemently anti-PvP, but that's only because I don't think I could be mature about my PC getting murdered by the other PCs -- and I project this personal trait onto everyone else.

If your players can see their PCs get shot in-character and not hold it against the other players, then more power to you all!

Indeed... Double Dipping is good if you can indeed pull it off...

Keep the Faith

See, and I would have thought the players (and GM) would have had this conversation BEFORE the game, lol. Not being critical... just an interested observation.

Also, it sounds like the players of Felicity and Lips have a lot more power than the other two players if they can dictate to them what kind of characters they can play.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. If the Felicity/Lips players have a lot more history RPing with you, and the other two players are new to the group, that might make sense.
Also... if 'Felicity' and 'Lips' spent a lot more time on their back story and already talked to you about their characters and the type of game they wanted to play, then it is understandable that they would have more say over things.
It doesn't sound like the other two players spent much time developing their characters, or they might have been more upset.


Either way, it sounds like the two ganked players handled the consequences of their actions extremely well and that everyone had fun. Very cool!

You.. you do realize that 180 inch chest means that her mams are both over two feet in diameter?

She would need a robot to carry them around for her....

Or the Troll could do it from behind, with his 2 meter long Arms . .
kinda like this: http://fullmoonmasks.com/library/accessory-bra-hands.jpg

Yes they did, because that's the kind of GM I am.

And the PVP thing, at this point, has turned into an almost running gag. I have 3 or 4 players who like involved stories, deep characters, and lots of plot.

I also have two players that like blowing shit up, playing "Grand Theft Auto with dice", and being general dicks.

They've been asked to tone it down, and told by the other players that casual sociopathy will no longer be rewarded.

They have less power in the game because I'm the GM, and *I* don't like their play-style, either - even though I cater to it a little bit, because I want everyone to have fun. I've been waiting for them to come around.

I volunteer to be that troll. Oh, does no one else want to do it?

Two feet in diameter

Am I the only one completely horrified by this?

No.

Actually, I think I did the math wrong. It should be closer to three feet.

Sticking out over a meter past her chest...

Hey Chummer, I'm on your side. I think you are handling it really well and I don't blame you for taking the position you did.
I just find it amazing that the two GTA players have stuck it around and (especially) don't take anything personally.

As you said... now it seems like a running joke, where these two are almost running interference in your game just to keep things interesting for the other players!


Say... have you ever thought of getting these two players to be full-time GM-assistants?
As in.... get them to run some of the NPCs, especially the crazy ones, that the other players go up against?

If handled right, it could let them get their kicks and also be fun for everyone involved.


The major problem I could see is that they wouldn't be as involved in the roleplaying side of things... but they sound like the kind of players that would be totally cool just hanging out with their friends while playing Gears of War Co-Op, then jumping in whenever the PCs came up against some major opposition.

Another fun idea, if you had the time or someone else willing to Co-GM, would be to have them make their own sociopath runner team that actually competed against the other PCs on a regular basis.

Yep, it's clearly physically impossible. She'd weigh over a thousand pounds. At 100", you wind up with half a meter instead of a meter, and 300 lbs instead of 1,000.

Heh.

Math geeks.

There's adiposis and then there's bad anime. :/

yep. I'm going to go with the 300-lbs option, when figuring out how to apply penalties and effects.

Honestly, 'normal' adiposis would already give plenty of grotesque enhancement, with a body that matches. *shrug* It's still sexy to someone…

Indeed, otherwise you would not have women who augment up to those ridiculous sizes...

Keep the Faith

Well, I think you're discounting insanity too quickly, but yes.