So last session our team got into a firefight with DocWagon during the Ghost Cartel's campaign.

One of the PC's got knocked out during the course of it. He has a basic DocWagon contract.

I've just prepared a bill to hand him totaling 55000 for the expenses incurred when they attempted to 'extract' him.

Really at the end of the day it'll just mean he'll need to scrub that SIN but I thought it was a perfect example of 'profit over people' not to mention a method of screwing over my PC's

You're awful. Do it.

Well, what'd they THINK was gonna happen when they got into a firefight with DocWagon while wearing a DocWagon tracking device?

It will probably be construed as social commentary about the rising cost of healthcare.

Therefore as a GM you're automatically being deep and socially relevant.

WIN!

I like it.

Yeah I'd have them totaly inflate the bill.

I'd do it. I'd probably get the cops trying to pick him up for insanity, as he shot at DW when they tried to help him...

This, btw, is one of the many reasons I think that any runner with a DW contract is insane. Why does someone planning to carry out illegal act for which they can go to jail want to strap a tracking beacon to their wrist?

Wow I never thought of doing that while my team went through that run. It is very evil, but more importantly it is very awesome and Shadowrun rules state you have to do what is most awesome.

Question for you, why would Docwagon release said runner before he's paid them at least a large portion of what he owes? Considering he and his team actively fired at them it's entirely reasonable for Docwagon to view him as a "credit risk" or turn him over to the police authorities.

I mean if your going to be evil go all the way. If he can't come up with a portion of the money he owes have Docwagon talk about "seizing assets" (his organs and ware) in lieu of payment. The rest of the team may need to plan on an extraction.

Drink deep of the evil my brother GM, it will only make you stronger.

Doc wagon patched him up... think cortex bomb. DW needs runners too you know...

Lurker and Mordvent nailed it.

They wouldn't just let him take off afterward, they'd take some measures to ensure payment or cooperation.

Either hold him on DW property or put a cranial bomb with anti-tamper device in it. The bomb will be removed once he has payed the debt off, but they'll then charge him for the bomb removal surgery too.

Evil is fun to play.

DocWagon didn't even patch him up. The team escaped along with the runner. Nowhere in his contract does it state however that the resuscitation attempt must be successful in order for the client to get billed. Heck I think the rules for it in 4A even state that the bill will go to his estate if necessary.

Ah, well, in that case you handled it correctly.

Escaped? Um, did he take off the active tracking beacon?

I dunno, even scrapping the SIN, having DocWagon pissed at you might not be good (especially if you have a contract with them, since this would mean losing the contract). I was going to suggest having DocWagon send him the inflated bill and warn him that if he doesn't cough up, he and all his buddies are getting their contracts voided and are on the DocWagon blacklist.... then have DocWagon offer to "forget about" the bill in return for an off-the-books service of some kind, ie, use this as an adventure hook.

If he wipes his SIN, they still have alot of info on the runner, like blood type, DNA ect. They are a medical corp after all? It would make their job reviving him and ect easier if they had that stuff on record. Unless everyone disagrees with me?

Nope, nemafow, you're spot on.

Right in the section about buying a Doc Wagon contract it talks about them acquiring samples and medical info. Depending on how you're game treats fake SINs (mine a fake SIN is more believable when the info on it matches the holder better, so correct DNA, blood type, etc...) they might be able to find your new SIN through a search through the registry, but it would be tricky I think.

That's pretty much exactly what I would have done.

IMO, careless PCs deserve to suffer the consequences.

There are other approaches one can pursue using samples.... But ritual magic is expensive.

That was awesome and it will go to my sig. Right Now.

nEVER BE AFRAID to screw over your PCs. If they do something stupid, or don't think of the consequences, give them a raised middle finger.

Is the Doc Wagon account linked to the same SIN he was using at the time he was on the run? Was he even using a SIN at all? Did he actively resist DW's attempts to extract him? Was he on extraterritorial grounds when it happened (did they plan to discourage pursuit by going through corp grounds)?

Billing him for damages incurred while trying to extract him may work. Or it may not, depending on his contract and his lawyer. Does the contract say that they can charge him if they fail to confirm it was him that they were extracting? How do they confirm it was him if they can't extract him?

DW has his medical information, so it probably has an easier time to track him down, this depends on how much they are willing to spend to recover their money. He probably can't get a new DW contract (again this would depend on whether they can hold onto the information they have).

I am assuming they tracked him by his wrist biomonitor going off, so they know he was there. Since DocWagon will have medical samples from him, simply changing his SIN won't let him off the hook or let him get a new DocWagon contract. Ritual sorcery may be expensive, but not if you already have mages on contract standing by. Plus, depending on the pressure they can bring to bear (which is likely a lot), they could simply add the cost of the mage, and any other collection efforts, to his bill. I imagine they are stringent about getting paid, otherwise everyone else would be encouraged to skip on their bills. They provide medical coverage to a lot of shady people, after all.

Generally, it is a bad idea to get on the bad side of someone who has biometric data and medical samples from you.

I would send a bill and notice that informs the runner that failure to pay may result in the use of his/her samples being used in ritual sorcery for debt collection purposes.

Tell him he can take the "In Debt" quality without the benefits and pay it off like that.

I agree, it would be good business for a number of reasons for Docwagon to put some effort into tracking the offending runner down, including ritual sorcery or just hiring a fixer or specialized runner team to look for him and remind him of his obligation. Use it as a plot hook.

They could also do what one of my chars did... short version somebody got a nasty lesson in safe sex... (preserve, container from medkit, profit...)

Auction off the sample to the highest bidder... after all he did a run against X corp. So they might pay for the sample.. pay a lot for it depending on the losses and damage.

Even Better, Saddle him with a In-Debt Flaw as well (at whatever Amount the bill is) and then the Vi.. umm Interest (at the Suggested 10% Monthly Compounded) is required monthly, or there will be consequences... when he pays of the debt, the Flaws (In Debt and Cranial Bomb) go away... That is how I would do it anyways...

Keep the Faith

lol

Thank you thank you thank you! That's just the twist I needed!

And I think your interpretation on how a major corporation would behave in that situation is perfectly acceptable.

I think it's more likely that they'd contact him, and he could have his representation (face) deny his even being involved. "Somebody Spoofed you, Chummer. He wasn't even there. Who knows why the blood showed up on scene? Yeah you go on and cancel the account you pixel-pushing slag. We'd love to get you on a breach of contract."

Worst case scenario it goes to Collections and you take it from there.

I'm not sure how much teh futar has changed things, but while some medics today are willing to drive into crossfire to pick up a patient, almost all of 'em are going to say "fuck it, move on" if some of that crossfire is coming from the patient.

I mean, come on... you're travelling in an armored vehicle/aircraft, you're highly mobile, the person you're supposed to be picking up is expressing "refusal of treatment and transport" with a submachinegun... and you know his account number. Your average ganger might think "what? what? did you just touch my car, bitch?" and jump right in to a protracted gunfight over something like that, but professional for-profit medics who get shot at occasionally on the job are just going to duck, crank off some tear gas, haul ass out of there, and then laugh all the way back to their station while they add any billable services they can think of to the run report. Hell, they might even stop partway back to make "essential repairs" consisting of an automated car wash and bill some "crew recuperation/recovery time and expenses" by stopping for burritos.

Actually, the Docwagon medics are generally off-site and operate remotely. The HTR guys on the ground are just there for the extraction to the ambulance, so the entirety of their job description is "get shot at by dudes who know you're coming."

I think it all kind of depends on what kind of Doc Wagon contract the character has. If he has own of their premium contracts, they should forgive the character even taking shots at them - who knows, maybe the Doc Wagon client is on drugs or under some magical influence, its not like they haven't had to deal with nova hot drugged up entertainers or something dying on the can surrounded by body guards armed to the teeth or whatever, they still have to make good on what kind of contract the client has. Low end contract? Fuck it, there is still shooting going on, we're going to circle for a while till it either cools down or we have to go home because our ride is getting some holes and will count this as having fulfilled our end of the contract and our recording equipment can testify to that.

And what is this talk about extra billing? The Doc Wagon contracts are pretty clear cut, pay up front for services to be rendered at a later date, Doc Wagon is already paid even if they never have to go out to pick up their client.

The whole thing is very circumstantial and its possible that the GM who thinks the DW would go out of their way to screw a client may be over stepping what the initial impression of what a Doc Wagon contract is. Consistency, if Doc Wagon contracts are house ruled to something else, then have at er in what way is consistent with that house rule.

At least, that is my humble opinion, take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.

Depends of the contract type. With the base level (5K/year) Ressuscitation is extra (+5,000), HTR is extra (+5,000 and up), and any healing bill and eventual death compensation for DocWagon personnel involved in HTR situation is extra too...

The OP stated it was a basic contract, so the HTR response and any injury/damage/death to the HTR team will both be billable to the character.

I'm uncertain why people always thinks the corporations should be both stupid and forgiving when it works in the PC's favor, I mean I understand theres some level of flavor of play going on but personally I'm always baffeled by this notion.



This is the kind of conversation that should end in "We're a double A megacorp BLAM"

Yeah, I'd want to be really careful of making enemies of people who always have multiple armed and armored helicopters full of heavily armed troops in the air and have both diplomatic immunity and extremely good connections to lots of major players. Seems like it could end badly.

I am uncertain why people always thinks the corps are smarter and/or meaner than the PCs. I understand that there could be people who are smarter working for the corps but unless the PCs are dealing with these people, frankly I am always baffled by this notion that the corps are always both smarter and meaner than the PCs.

Given that it is the Face doing the talking, I think that conversation could possibly end with "We are sorry for your inconvenience, we will waive this fee as a show of goodwill" or "We will reduce the amount chargeable as a show of good will."


You do not make enemies of them. You get your lawyer face to talk to them nicely. This way, you are not enemies but those good friends of theirs.

Because naturally the people that a multi-billion nuyen corp uses to do their negotiation aren't any good at it? It's not like they have any motivation to hire people who actually can negotiate, right? Or any opportunity to make compelling but mutually profitable offers to people who have demonstrated a certain, shall we say, "adeptness" with negotiating with street scum?

It is not that the people that the multibillion nuyen corp uses to do their negotiation aren't any good at it. It is that the PCs or this particular PC in specific should better than most of the people they get to do their negotiations with. Sure, you can get someone that is better than the Face, but how much are you paying this other guy/s to get back that little amount of money? It is not like the PC does not have such, shall we say, "proven track record of successfully renegotiating" with those other people, when in fact, it is his very existance to do so.

Are the AAs going to reach for the big guns to recover moneys of such minimal value? They might, but I think unlikely.

Yeah, it's not that 50k isn't a significant amount of money, but an AA corp is dealing in a multi-billion to trillion dollar business. I don't see them risking their own assets, like 300k helicopters, which most hardcore runner teams could blast out of the sky all day long, over something which was, let's be realistic, a failure to render contracted services on their part. They were supposed to grab the guy and patch him up. They failed to do so and suffered losses in the process of failing to do so.

I think, worst case, they would terminate the contract due to overdue payment and contract out the collection to a 3rd party who would receive a % of the owed amount. Oh, and the relatives/friends of the deceased might drop dime on the runner in question to whatever corp was shooting at them when the biomonitor chirped. That 2nd option might even still happen if the team's face can sweet-talk DW into backing down.

Third point, 50k in unpaid bills vs. million dollar prototype/datasteal. Which corp is more motivated here?
DW has your blood? Did the team stop and hit the area with Cleaner-Cleaner before they buggered off?
A DW revenge scenario seems a little suspect.

I'll Bite... Maybe it is because Shadowrunners tend to be individuals, working against a Corporation that has thousands, if not tens of thousands of people working for them. Shadowrunners are not the end all, be all of the Shadows... They are deniable assets (however well trained they may be) that are disposable... Those who hire the Shadowrunners ARE a lot smarter than the Shadowrunners, by dint of having access to more people, with better information. And well, as for Meaner, when you have diplomatic immunity, an effectively unlimited budget, and people who only care for the bottom line, you tend to get leaner and meaner Corps than any individual. It is just natural... You will always, eventually, lose out against an opponent that has more people, Information, money, and will than you do... that is the nature of the society that is Shadowrun... Hell that is the nature of real life as well...

Keep the Faith