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Reg06
Reach is only 2 before Kick- 1 from cyclops and 1 from elongated limbs. The metavariants don't keep the baseline qualities (right?).
Blast doesn't help against large structures, and only helps against weak structures if the DM allows it. Since Aleksei's punches don't have Force it's all DM discretion, but if my DM lets the secondary benefit of Blast kick in (why not, I could choose Fire, Acid, or Light for the same amount of damage and some badass secondary effects), it would only be Force 6 (Magic 6, Critical Strike 6, Unarmed 6- choose one). So it destroys furniture, trees, plastiboard, and ballistic glass (and of course weaker junk).
iategod
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 12:04 AM) *
Reach is only 2 before Kick- 1 from cyclops and 1 from elongated limbs. The metavariants don't keep the baseline qualities (right?).
Blast doesn't help against large structures, and only helps against weak structures if the DM allows it. Since Aleksei's punches don't have Force it's all DM discretion, but if my DM lets the secondary benefit of Blast kick in (why not, I could choose Fire, Acid, or Light for the same amount of damage and some badass secondary effects), it would only be Force 6 (Magic 6, Critical Strike 6, Unarmed 6- choose one). So it destroys furniture, trees, plastiboard, and ballistic glass (and of course weaker junk).


I've always been partial toward sound elemental with it's secondary effects. The idea that you can punch someone so hard they puke is just comedy to me.

Acording to the example on pg 158 in the core book, I don't think you'll have much trouble breaking through objects with your damage+net hits.

Another option that hasn't been mentioned is going for mystic adept. Saving the points from killing hands and elemental strike and going with 1 magic, a sustain foci and elemental aura of choice. The hits on it add to your dv, turning you damage to elemental of choice and all that jazz.

Mystic Adept
STR 10
Magic 6 (5 towards adept powers, 1 point towards spellcasting)

3 Levels of Martial arts that give damage value as a bonus.
Over cast elemental aura for 2
Your minimum damage on a strike(only 1net hit)

5 (for 10 STR)
2 (for elemental aura)
6 (for Critical Strike)
3 (for Martial Arts)
2 (for thorns)
1 (for hardliner)
1 (for the 1 net hit)

Grand total of 20. Get penetrating strike now and you'll have the elemental damage, the damage, AND -3ap. You won't need killing hands anymore since you can damage spirits with the aura too.
Reg06
Oh. I like Elemental Aura.
So, as a Mystic Adept with 1 point into Mage my Magic for Sorcery counts as 1? Meaning Elemental Aura is maxed out at +2DV until I get better Magic?
Still, considering the benefits it can definitely be worth it.
Glyph
Not really. If you read the description, the target resists the damage from the aura separately. So it's not +2 DV, it's simply 2 DV, which most people will probably soak. Not to mention that you will have a penalty to your attack because of sustaining a spell, and will have to resist 4 physical damage from Drain.

The main benefit of being a mystic adept with 1 point in mage abilities is that you can take counterspelling to use for spell defense - much more cost effective than the magic resistance power. And there are a few spells that are useful at Force: 1. Oxygenate can let you breathe underwater, and levitate can get you over that chain-link security fence.
iategod
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 03:52 AM) *
Oh. I like Elemental Aura.
So, as a Mystic Adept with 1 point into Mage my Magic for Sorcery counts as 1? Meaning Elemental Aura is maxed out at +2DV until I get better Magic?
Still, considering the benefits it can definitely be worth it.

That's kinda right. If you are playing 4e 20th Anniversary, you use your full Magic attribute to determine where overcasting starts. You will only have a few dice to roll to cast, but you can keep all the other benefits of Magic 6.
iategod
QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 21 2010, 05:40 AM) *
Not really. If you read the description, the target resists the damage from the aura separately. So it's not +2 DV, it's simply 2 DV, which most people will probably soak. Not to mention that you will have a penalty to your attack because of sustaining a spell, and will have to resist 4 physical damage from Drain.

The main benefit of being a mystic adept with 1 point in mage abilities is that you can take counterspelling to use for spell defense - much more cost effective than the magic resistance power. And there are a few spells that are useful at Force: 1. Oxygenate can let you breathe underwater, and levitate can get you over that chain-link security fence.


I believe the separate 2dv damage would be if the enemy hit you while you have it sustained. They have to roll against the force of the aura if they hit you. If you attack with the aura it will add the force as dv to your attack. Pg 173 street magic.
Reg06
QUOTE (iategod @ Jul 21 2010, 04:41 AM) *
That's kinda right. If you are playing 4e 20th Anniversary, you use your full Magic attribute to determine where overcasting starts. You will only have a few dice to roll to cast, but you can keep all the other benefits of Magic 6.


So with magic 6 and 5 points towards adept powers, and a 4 in spellcasting, I'd roll 5 or 10 dice for casting spells?
iategod
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 05:50 AM) *
So with magic 6 and 5 points towards adept powers, and a 4 in spellcasting, I'd roll 5 or 10 dice for casting spells?


You'll be rolling 5 dice, over cast would start at 7 force. This doesn't include foci though, so you could get 2 more from that ( or more depending on rating of foci), 2 from a mentor spirit, 2 more from skill specialization. That'll get you to 11 I believe. Don't forget your sustaining foci to sustain the spell and not give you the -2 penalty.

Without going into over cast you'll be rolling against 6 drain. Max 6 hits (at 6 force) so you could potentially go up to 24p right there.
Reg06
So, I've moved some things around taking into account what I've learned.

Current Build;
Cyclops (45 BP)
Changeling (10 BP) with Bony Spikes, Elongated Limbs, Thermographic Vision, Pain Resistance 1, and Thorns.
Mystic Adept (10 BP)
Martials Arts 2 (10 BP)
Restricted Gear 5 BP
Gremlins x4
Incompetent x3
STR 10 (40 BP)
BOD 7 (20 BP)
WILL 5 (40 BP)
AGI 4 (30 BP)
LOG 4 (30 BP)
Magic 6 (65 BP) (5 points go towards Adept Powers)
Edge 5 (40 BP)
Spellcasting 4 (16 BP)
Specialization Manipulation (2 BP)
Unarmed Combat 6 (24 BP)
Specialization Martial Arts (2 BP)
Martial Arts Manuever Kicks (2 BP)
Martial Arts Manuever Full Offense (2 BP)
145000 nuyen (20 BP) Relevant Purchases- Hardliner Gloves (Weapon Focus 2 w/ personalized grips), Sustain Focus Force 5, Manipulation Fetish, Bunch of Armor that grants 18/15, Spellcasting Focus Force 3
Elemental Aura Blast (3 BP)

So, attack pool is at 15 (AGI 4, 6 Skill, 3 Improved Ability, 2 Focus, 2 Speciality, -1 Cyclops, -1 Thorns), but I can go Full Offense for +2 and have Reach 3.
DV with unarmed attacks is 17P (5 STR, 6 Critical Strike, 3 changeling, 2 martial arts, 1 gloves)
Spellcasting pool to cast Elemental Aura on Aleksei's fists is 15 (1 Magic, 4 Skill, 2 Speciality, 5 Force, 3 Focus), with each hit (up to 5) adding +1DV, and it has a sustaining Focus. So assuming normal rolls, and counting in the +1 net hit minimum, Aleksei's punches are at 23P (a little excessive). Of course I'll need to soak 6 Drain with only 11 dice, but that's what Pain Resistance is for. And of course, if I really need to bring the pain I can overcast all I want and just destroy things.

Being a Mystic Adept leaves Aleksei alot more room to grow (and way increases his potential damage output). This version starts with fewer skills, but has a mental stat above 1 and is a little more fragile (2 less body, 1 less Ballistic Armor). I like it, because it functions for the role perfectly, so thanks to all who helped (particularly iategod). The character fluff needs alot of work still (I'm now thinking Aleksei is an old world gypsy).
Makki
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 10:51 PM) *
Gremlins is fine. Using a commlink for everyday tasks doesn't take any tests so I'm not worried about critical clitches.


SR4A Gremlins: The gamemaster may also require the character to
make a test for operations that would otherwise succeed automatically,
simply to see whether or not a glitch occurs.


with gremlins 4 one needs 9 dice in hardware or computer + logic and may not roll any 1 to not glitch
iategod
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 07:16 AM) *
So, I've moved some things around taking into account what I've learned.

Current Build;
Cyclops (45 BP)
Changeling (10 BP) with Bony Spikes, Elongated Limbs, Thermographic Vision, Pain Resistance 1, and Thorns.
Mystic Adept (10 BP)
Martials Arts 2 (10 BP)
Restricted Gear 5 BP
Gremlins x4
Incompetent x3
STR 10 (40 BP)
BOD 7 (20 BP)
WILL 5 (40 BP)
AGI 4 (30 BP)
LOG 4 (30 BP)
Magic 6 (65 BP) (5 points go towards Adept Powers)
Edge 5 (40 BP)
Spellcasting 4 (16 BP)
Specialization Manipulation (2 BP)
Unarmed Combat 6 (24 BP)
Specialization Martial Arts (2 BP)
Martial Arts Manuever Kicks (2 BP)
Martial Arts Manuever Full Offense (2 BP)
145000 nuyen (20 BP) Relevant Purchases- Hardliner Gloves (Weapon Focus 2 w/ personalized grips), Sustain Focus Force 5, Manipulation Fetish, Bunch of Armor that grants 18/15, Spellcasting Focus Force 3
Elemental Aura Blast (3 BP)

So, attack pool is at 15 (AGI 4, 6 Skill, 3 Improved Ability, 2 Focus, 2 Speciality, -1 Cyclops, -1 Thorns), but I can go Full Offense for +2 and have Reach 3.
DV with unarmed attacks is 17P (5 STR, 6 Critical Strike, 3 changeling, 2 martial arts, 1 gloves)
Spellcasting pool to cast Elemental Aura on Aleksei's fists is 15 (1 Magic, 4 Skill, 2 Speciality, 5 Force, 3 Focus), with each hit (up to 5) adding +1DV, and it has a sustaining Focus. So assuming normal rolls, and counting in the +1 net hit minimum, Aleksei's punches are at 23P (a little excessive). Of course I'll need to soak 6 Drain with only 11 dice, but that's what Pain Resistance is for. And of course, if I really need to bring the pain I can overcast all I want and just destroy things.

Being a Mystic Adept leaves Aleksei alot more room to grow (and way increases his potential damage output). This version starts with fewer skills, but has a mental stat above 1 and is a little more fragile (2 less body, 1 less Ballistic Armor). I like it, because it functions for the role perfectly, so thanks to all who helped (particularly iategod). The character fluff needs alot of work still (I'm now thinking Aleksei is an old world gypsy).


Ya didn't list you adept powers. Don't forget, now you can get spells #=spell casting x2. Grab a rating 3 sustaining foci and increase reflexes spell. BAM, more IPs. This route also opens up adept centering when you get your first initiate grade (13karma). Or in your case maybe just centering to help with drain tests.

Also look at pain resist spell. Doesn't need to be sustain, it's permanent once cast. Should stack with other pain resist mods such as the adept power, quality, cyber. And get heal, might as well.

As for your tradition. I dunno which would be gypsy, they have a large list of em in street magic. It'll dictate which stats you will use to resist drain. If you don't use one with logic as the stat you might be able to get away with a logic of 3. The only effect that will have for you will be limiting you in using a max of 3 active foci at once.
Mäx
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 09:16 AM) *
Spellcasting pool to cast Elemental Aura on Aleksei's fists is 15 (1 Magic, 4 Skill, 2 Speciality, 5 Force, 3 Focus)

You dont add spells force to casting dicepool
HugeC
Re: Smashing Blow & the term "Base DV", if you look at the Damaging Barriers Table, SR4A p. 166, it seems clear that Base DV refers to the DV prior to adding in net hits. Explosives are listed as doing "base DV x 2". This adept power would effectively make your melee attacks into explosives where barriers are concerned (EDIT: except that the barrier would still roll 2xArmor to resist).

Though this char feels pretty twinky, I can't get down on wanting to be the Juggernaut. silly.gif It probably doesn't need to be taken quite so far; get your unarmed DV up to 10 or so, and you can punch through concrete pretty well if you have Smashing Blow.
Cabral
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 20 2010, 07:04 PM) *
Reach is only 2 before Kick- 1 from cyclops and 1 from elongated limbs. The metavariants don't keep the baseline qualities (right?).

I am fairly sure they have the baseline qualities (such as thermographic vision) unless otherwise specified.
Cabral
At what point do we suggest he look at a possession tradition mystic adept with an overcast guardian spirit to handle melee and ranged skills? (also, can't guardian spirits take an elemental strike as an optional power?

Hmm. I think that has some scary potential. Best not mention it...
Karoline
QUOTE (Cabral @ Jul 21 2010, 10:17 AM) *
At what point do we suggest he look at a possession tradition mystic adept with an overcast guardian spirit to handle melee and ranged skills? (also, can't guardian spirits take an elemental strike as an optional power?

Hmm. I think that has some scary potential. Best not mention it...


What he really needs to make this concept work is a pixie mage that maxes out their summoning skills. nyahnyah.gif
Reg06
QUOTE (iategod @ Jul 21 2010, 06:43 AM) *
Ya didn't list you adept powers. Don't forget, now you can get spells #=spell casting x2. Grab a rating 3 sustaining foci and increase reflexes spell. BAM, more IPs. This route also opens up adept centering when you get your first initiate grade (13karma). Or in your case maybe just centering to help with drain tests.

Also look at pain resist spell. Doesn't need to be sustain, it's permanent once cast. Should stack with other pain resist mods such as the adept power, quality, cyber. And get heal, might as well.

As for your tradition. I dunno which would be gypsy, they have a large list of em in street magic. It'll dictate which stats you will use to resist drain. If you don't use one with logic as the stat you might be able to get away with a logic of 3. The only effect that will have for you will be limiting you in using a max of 3 active foci at once.


No BP for more spells, or the money to buy sustaining foci for the spells. Once I can pick some up I'll get an extra IP, some more Agility, and maybe pain resistance. Actually, a mentor spirit is first, because I really need those extra manipulation dice.

Adept powers are Critical Strike 6, Penetrating Strike 3, Smashing Blow, Improved Ability Unarmed Combat, Attribute Boost Agility.

And yeah, it's a pretty twinky character. Right now I'm just exploring the possibilities, and fleshing out his fluff- but Aleksei will definitely get better with age, since he can't really get much better at punching things. It'll be a week or two before I play it so I've got the time to keep tweaking.

edit;
Is there any reason why Aleksei couldn't sustain Elemental Aura Blast and Elemental Aura Sound on himself, and gain the benefit from both?
iategod
QUOTE (Reg06 @ Jul 21 2010, 06:29 PM) *
Is there any reason why Aleksei couldn't sustain Elemental Aura Blast and Elemental Aura Sound on himself, and gain the benefit from both?


For each sustained spell you suffer a -2 penalty to everything while sustaining. That's why you want to use sustaining foci, to try and avoid those penalties. There's a adept power called heightened concentration that allows you to negate all penalties from 1 source. Digital Grimoire pg 18;

Heightened Concentration
Cost: 1
The adept is capable of tuning out a single distraction to her
task at hand. When using this power, the adept can ignore a single
situational negative dice pool modifier of a value up to her Magic
attribute. This power requires a Complex Action to activate and
maybe be combined with the Adept Centering metamagic.


I've seen it used to negate all sustained spell penalties, up to 3 if you have a max magic attrib with no initiate grades. Some have argued that it must be activated after every situation. I believe the meaning of situation is misrepresented, and should be reactivated when the negative dice pool mod has changed or when the player chooses to change the mod of focus.

But, aside from all that, you can sustain more than 1 elemental aura, stacking them for damage and effect. Just have to buy the spell again for each element.
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