Daddy's Little Ninja
Jul 23 2010, 04:16 PM
For the idea of coffee boutique flavors Starbucks got into trouble with that a few years ago. They were selling kohna coffee. That is supposed to be this wonderful Hawaiian bean, but it turned out they were not getting their beans from Hawaii. They tried to say 'kohna is a state of mind.' Unfortunately for them the FDA did not agree, but clearly they got away with telling people they were getting somethnig special and paying big bucks for it, when they were not.
stevebugge
Jul 23 2010, 05:19 PM
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Jul 23 2010, 09:16 AM)

For the idea of coffee boutique flavors Starbucks got into trouble with that a few years ago. They were selling kohna coffee. That is supposed to be this wonderful Hawaiian bean, but it turned out they were not getting their beans from Hawaii. They tried to say 'kohna is a state of mind.' Unfortunately for them the FDA did not agree, but clearly they got away with telling people they were getting somethnig special and paying big bucks for it, when they were not.
There are a lot of examples of this in the food world. Blue Mountain Coffee has to come from a select number of estates in Jamaica in a specific region. Kona has to come from the Island of Hawaii, though I think they have relaxed the requirements on the exact area (which probably explains some of the very inferior cheap Kona on the market) Paresan Reggiano cannot be made just anywhere, neither can Congac, Champagne, or Armangac.
However for yeatrs wineries in Califronia and Washington sold sparkling white wine as "Champagne" and Distilleries in other parts of the world made and sold Cognac (amusingly some French distillers outside the Cognac region in Fracnce tried this and got in to quite a bit of legal trouble)
This probably has not entirely gone away in 2070, and there is probably a hook for a smuggling campaign somewhere in all this esoteric food chat.
(I'm thinking skillwired rigger with sensory enhancments and high rated skill chips in cheese identification)
Voran
Jul 23 2010, 05:26 PM
I liked Washington state, went to college there following living in Hawaii, so I wasn't so familiar with beer other than well..the budweiser and crap stuff, then I get to college and started drinking beer I couldn't see my hand through the glass (and not just guiness), there was a converted firehouse turned pub right within walking distance of our campus, I got to sample many a nice nice nice beer. Nowadays, I like me a good Marzen.
Edit: oooh or a Dunkel. I loves me a nice Dunkel.
Dumori
Jul 23 2010, 05:29 PM
Ah good beer. Where I live has been holding regular beer festivals for a good few years so quality beer has started appearing in the better pubs.
Daddy's Little Ninja
Jul 23 2010, 05:53 PM
Steve there is a difference in the names of wines. The French defend regional names like "Burgundy" and "Champagne" as a definition of the wine. American law does it by ingredient. So while the French say a Burgundy is from that part of France, traditionally pinot noir grapes an American 'Burgundy' is just a red wine, but an american Pinot noir must be made with those grapes. I would assume coffee beens fall into the 'ingredient' line more than the region because Starbucks did get in trouble.
I remember the wine thing because I once saw SF get into a shouting match with a waiter at a restaurant.
SF- "We'll have a bottle of the so-and-so burgundy please."
Waiter- "The pinot noir?"
SF(proud of her French parentage)-"No, the Burgundy."
Waiter "Is that the pinot noir?"
SF "In this case the pinto noir your selling is a BURGUNDY"
waiter "So I was right when I said the...'
You get the idea. The rest of us were laughing at the mess.
stevebugge
Jul 23 2010, 06:03 PM
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Jul 23 2010, 10:53 AM)

Steve there is a difference in the names of wines. The French defend regional names like "Burgundy" and "Champagne" as a definition of the wine. American law does it by ingredient. So while the French say a Burgundy is from that part of France, traditionally pinot noir grapes an American 'Burgundy' is just a red wine, but an american Pinot noir must be made with those grapes. I would assume coffee beens fall into the 'ingredient' line more than the region because Starbucks did get in trouble.
I remember the wine thing because I once saw SF get into a shouting match with a waiter at a restaurant.
SF- "We'll have a bottle of the so-and-so burgundy please."
Waiter- "The pinot noir?"
SF(proud of her French parentage)-"No, the Burgundy."
Waiter "Is that the pinot noir?"
SF "In this case the pinto noir your selling is a BURGUNDY"
waiter "So I was right when I said the...'
You get the idea. The rest of us were laughing at the mess.
In the case of Kona it's US Trademark Law that applies not the FDA & empowering legislation, I'm fairly certain that to be called Kona (or a significantly similar brand) it must contain beans from one or more of the members of that growing association in Hawaii. The regional Controlee in France (and their Italian, Dutch, German, and Swiss equivalents) are more like Trademarks on steroids in my view
BlueMax
Jul 23 2010, 06:30 PM
I only have one issue with the Kona Coffee Trade association, their stupid size controls.
Without being a distributor, you can only order 10 lbs of greens. This is bulldrek. I should be able to buy a ton if I can pay for it.
Some of my customers love Kona roasted at Cinnamon and others make me take to to FC+ for use as single origin espresso.
Thankfully, we have a Hawaii expansion in Shadowrun. It also portrays a Hawaii where I believe Kona is still an active growing region.
Hint: Better lots from Chiapas taste like mid lots from Kona. But I didn't tell you that.
BlueMax
stevebugge
Jul 23 2010, 06:38 PM
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Jul 23 2010, 11:30 AM)

I only have one issue with the Kona Coffee Trade association, their stupid size controls.
Without being a distributor, you can only order 10 lbs of greens. This is bulldrek. I should be able to buy a ton if I can pay for it.
Some of my customers love Kona roasted at Cinnamon and others make me take to to FC+ for use as single origin espresso.
Thankfully, we have a Hawaii expansion in Shadowrun. It also portrays a Hawaii where I believe Kona is still an active growing region.
Hint: Better lots from Chiapas taste like mid lots from Kona. But I didn't tell you that.
BlueMax
I've found a 60/40 blend of Java Estate and Sumatra Mandhaleng can fool a lot of people too if french roasted
BlueMax
Jul 23 2010, 06:40 PM
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Jul 23 2010, 11:38 AM)

I've found a 60/40 blend of Java Estate and Sumatra Mandhaleng can fool a lot of people too if french roasted
If I catch you French Roasting Kona, expect me to hire a "Team of Mixed Skilled Freelancers"
If you catch the drift.
Heck, I feel dirty taking Kona near second crack.
BlueMax
Draco18s
Jul 23 2010, 06:44 PM
Just heard on the radio some of the science behind why we like the things we like.
One of the things they did was put people in an MRI machine and dribble them wine through a tube and tell them the cost of the wine they were tasting.
As the supposed cost went up, so did the amount of pleasure.
stevebugge
Jul 23 2010, 07:15 PM
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Jul 23 2010, 11:40 AM)

If I catch you French Roasting Kona, expect me to hire a "Team of Mixed Skilled Freelancers"
If you catch the drift.
Heck, I feel dirty taking Kona near second crack.
BlueMax
Seeing how I work in a totally different industry (shipping) now you probably won't ever catch me roasting Kona. I'm with you on preferring the lighter roasts (with a few exceptions) and I am one of those who doesn't particularly like Kona, I like the character of the Indonesian coffees which generally still have a nice finish without the overpoweringly heavy body of Kona
Doc Chase
Jul 23 2010, 07:16 PM
I don't care what flavor the coffee is, as long as the bottle of creamer (Saint Brendan's) still has some left.
LivingOxymoron
Jul 23 2010, 08:56 PM
QUOTE (Bira @ Jul 22 2010, 05:13 PM)

Heh. Whoever told you that was either pulling your leg or trying to purchase filet mignon off of you for cheap

. It's actually the most expensive cut of meat you can buy here (with picanha being a close second).
It didn't have to do with the price... the Brazillian I was talking to said that people much preferred picanha over tenderloin. After visiting a Brazillian steakhouse, I can see why. SOOOO much more flavor.
Shinobi Killfist
Jul 24 2010, 02:40 AM
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Jul 22 2010, 03:18 PM)

I think its mostly justified in game due to the fact that, though wars and disease and other catastrophe, many of the industrialized nations ended up with so little workable land that they had to switch over to what was cheapest to produce in bulk.
There are some exceptions, however. I would imagine that in Aztlan, many of the poor actually subsist on the same "real" food that they do today.
Also the 3 billion that dies were the really poor so they took up less resources proportionally, and who knows how much of the farm land is still being used as farm land. Even today farms close up semi frequently since there are more profitable uses to the land, in a dystopean corp run future the bottom line matters so if X land makes more money as a factory than as a farm its becoming a factory, then the NAN may not be using it for farms since that is still a modification on nature or at least there farming methods may be directed more towards preserving nature rather then getting the most out of the land.
Still a bit of a stretch maybe but its enough to get past my suspension of disbelief.
hobgoblin
Jul 24 2010, 02:41 AM
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 23 2010, 03:47 PM)

I wouldn't mind trying a
Sink the Bismarck.
41% beer?! i get sick just thinking about it...
Dumori
Jul 24 2010, 02:50 AM
good old scots.
hobgoblin
Jul 24 2010, 02:51 AM
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 23 2010, 08:44 PM)

Just heard on the radio some of the science behind why we like the things we like.
One of the things they did was put people in an MRI machine and dribble them wine through a tube and tell them the cost of the wine they were tasting.
As the supposed cost went up, so did the amount of pleasure.
makes me think of "buyers remorse". as in one attempt to convince oneself that this high priced item one have recently bought, is better then it appears to be so as to justify the cost.
Acidsaliva
Jul 24 2010, 03:26 AM
Also what is considered 'elite' food can change a lot over time. Check out
Lobster at WikiQUOTE
Prior to this time, lobster was considered a mark of poverty or as a food for indentured servants or lower members of society in Maine, Massachusetts and the Canadian Maritimes, and servants specified in employment agreements that they would not eat lobster more than twice per week. In Canada, outside of the rural outposts lobster was sold canned.
I recall reading somewhere that France (?) before a certain time period feed its prisoners lobster because it was a 'serf' food.
Culture can play a part too. My mother (of European background) never ate pumpkin until she came to Australia with my father. It was considered a 'trash' food and only fed to pigs
Snow_Fox
Jul 24 2010, 03:39 AM
yeah, it was peasant food. but then look at the damn thing. You look like you're being fed a giant beetle.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 23 2010, 01:44 PM)

Just heard on the radio some of the science behind why we like the things we like.
One of the things they did was put people in an MRI machine and dribble them wine through a tube and tell them the cost of the wine they were tasting.
As the supposed cost went up, so did the amount of pleasure.
I'd believe it, a lot of food/wine products opperate on this.
And for the record the wine I argued with the pretentious twit was a Louis Jadot.
CanRay
Jul 24 2010, 03:41 AM
You know, I just remembered that "Money" Johnson's storyline involves him only drinking Soykaff, despite being able to afford the real thing.
hobgoblin
Jul 24 2010, 04:28 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 24 2010, 05:41 AM)

You know, I just remembered that "Money" Johnson's storyline involves him only drinking Soykaff, despite being able to afford the real thing.
heh, maybe its easier to get a high caffeine variant of soykaff
CanRay
Jul 24 2010, 02:22 PM
No, there's a whole story behind it. I'm just not telling it yet.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jul 24 2010, 03:26 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 24 2010, 07:22 AM)

No, there's a whole story behind it. I'm just not telling it yet.

Spoilsport...
CanRay
Jul 24 2010, 03:30 PM
Yeah, well, hopefully it gets me writing again.
But, back on topic...
OK, Shadowrunners occasionally hit it rich.
What does the PCs eat when they have copious amounts of spare funds for once?
And, yes, I mean after you've stocked up the bolt holes with the finest MREs you can find.
BlueMax
Jul 24 2010, 04:34 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 24 2010, 07:30 AM)

Yeah, well, hopefully it gets me writing again.
But, back on topic...
OK, Shadowrunners occasionally hit it rich.
What does the PCs eat when they have copious amounts of spare funds for once?
And, yes, I mean after you've stocked up the bolt holes with the finest MREs you can find.
Fancy folks and their MREs
I go to the stuffer shack and I gets me some purple Drank, some nuk-it burgers and some nuk-it chili dogs. None of which need to be refrigerated and have 20 year shelf lives.
Longer than I plan to live chummer.
If I have enough good solid food, its onto the bourbon. I wonder what substance you make fake bourbon with? But I dont care
BlueMax
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jul 24 2010, 04:44 PM
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Jul 24 2010, 09:34 AM)

Fancy folks and their MREs
I go to the stuffer shack and I gets me some purple Drank, some nuk-it burgers and some nuk-it chili dogs. None of which need to be refrigerated and have 20 year shelf lives.
Longer than I plan to live chummer.
If I have enough good solid food, its onto the bourbon. I wonder what substance you make fake bourbon with? But I dont care
BlueMax
Yeah... there is that...
CanRay
Jul 24 2010, 05:27 PM
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Jul 24 2010, 11:34 AM)

If I have enough good solid food, its onto the bourbon. I wonder what substance you make fake bourbon with? But I dont care
BlueMax
Synthetic alcohol flavoured to taste.
Kumo
Jul 24 2010, 05:37 PM
Talking about cheap/expensive food differences...
What makes food better?
1) Ingredients. No idea how does it look in US or England, but most things which I can buy is at least 50% water+chemical. If I'd want to buy a real sausage or ham, I'd have to go to a farm - or pay 2x more in a good shop. And it tastes MUCH different. And there are always companies producing cheapest of the cheapest things, that
Yeah, I know that in SR cheap soya-stuff with some chemical taste can imitate true food... But it's still a fake.
2) Skills of the cook. In theory, best restaurants should hire best cooks possible.
3) And, of course, victinity. It was disputed above
Snow_Fox
Jul 25 2010, 04:28 PM
ingredients are weird for drinks. Personally in a martini i can taste the differnece. I've tried cheaper vodka's for mixed drinks and they weren't as good
by comparrison in margerita, it doesn't matter if you use good or common tequilla so I save money-both these are mixed drinks,. usually quality outs when served pure. Though as DLN pointed out we had an interesting surprise when he had a champgne taste test with top flight winning but a much cheaper champgne, Californian Korbel, coming in 2nd beating out more expensive Californian and non-chapagne french sparkling. Sorry but the Itaslian and spanish stuff came rock bottom
The Dragon Girl
Jul 25 2010, 08:56 PM
With coffee cheap/expensive really -can- make a difference. I remember trying to drink gas station coffee after I'd gotten trained as a barista. Eeeeyuck. Of course my favorite coffee tastes like drek if you don't drink it within 15 mins after its brewed so.. x.o *cuddles her french press*
One thing to know about starbucks: you can only get starbucks coffee beans out of an actual starbucks, those things you see in the grocery isle? Kraft using the starbucks label.
One of these days I'm going to learn how to roast my own, oh yes muahaha. ..ha.
Voran
Jul 25 2010, 10:58 PM
What I find interesting is the right curry sauce can make even mediocre ingredients passable
Yerameyahu
Jul 25 2010, 11:00 PM

That's why sauces exist.
Daylen
Jul 26 2010, 01:58 AM
QUOTE (The Dragon Girl @ Jul 25 2010, 09:56 PM)

With coffee cheap/expensive really -can- make a difference. I remember trying to drink gas station coffee after I'd gotten trained as a barista. Eeeeyuck. Of course my favorite coffee tastes like drek if you don't drink it within 15 mins after its brewed so.. x.o *cuddles her french press*
One thing to know about starbucks: you can only get starbucks coffee beans out of an actual starbucks, those things you see in the grocery isle? Kraft using the starbucks label.
One of these days I'm going to learn how to roast my own, oh yes muahaha. ..ha.
you LIKE starbucks!? Do you actually drink the coffee (is it black no sugar) or do you add so much junk that its really junk with a hint of coffee? Does paying more money for coffee really drown out the bad taste?
Yerameyahu
Jul 26 2010, 02:23 AM
Snob snob snob.
Snow_Fox
Jul 26 2010, 02:26 AM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 22 2010, 09:30 PM)

Quoted for Truth... this is so right!!! I personally do not actually like Filet Mignon... I know, that might make me wierd, but there you go...

right the most tender expensive cuts freaquenlty are tender because they do little work but so build up little flavor. I like lesser cuts that do not need as much work to breing out flavor
In my experience at a lot of restaureants the differnece between the 12 oz prime rib and the 8 oz prime rib is 3.5 oz's of fat.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jul 26 2010, 02:36 AM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jul 25 2010, 08:26 PM)

right the most tender expensive cuts freaquenlty are tender because they do little work but so build up little flavor. I like lesser cuts that do not need as much work to breing out flavor
In my experience at a lot of restaureants the differnece between the 12 oz prime rib and the 8 oz prime rib is 3.5 oz's of fat.
Oh Yeah... and I can't stand a lot of fat on my meat... it just ruins it for me...
Dumori
Jul 26 2010, 02:38 AM
QUOTE (Daylen @ Jul 26 2010, 02:58 AM)

you LIKE starbucks!? Do you actually drink the coffee (is it black no sugar) or do you add so much junk that its really junk with a hint of coffee? Does paying more money for coffee really drown out the bad taste?

black no sugar is the way. At most I'll have too sugars in a coffee and that in my cheapo morning instant so it dosen't really count my proper grounds stuff black only.
Snow_Fox
Jul 26 2010, 02:40 AM
got to have it in burgers a wonderful example of what I said when I started this thread. People pay extra for beef with less fat, like 90% lean but i find that makes a burgere way too dry. i like 80-85% lean so i pay less money for a better tasting food.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jul 26 2010, 02:48 AM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jul 25 2010, 07:40 PM)

got to have it in burgers a wonderful example of what I said when I started this thread. People pay extra for beef with less fat, like 90% lean but i find that makes a burgere way too dry. i like 80-85% lean so i pay less money for a better tasting food.
I eat mine at the cheap level of 73% (it is what I can generally afford)... but 85% is good... and yes, 90% lean on hamburger is a bit too dry for me as well... but everyone thinks that I am crazy when I buy a fairly nice cut of meat, and then cut all of the visible fat from the edges (Hell, it does not even have to be a really GOOD cut of meat)... it gives me the willies...
Snow_Fox
Jul 26 2010, 02:52 AM
if it's on the side there's no problem trimming it, I mean you're not going to eat it right. it's the marbling that carries flavor. just don't start cutting away the connective tissue in a rolled roast-or the damn thing falls apart
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jul 26 2010, 02:55 AM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jul 25 2010, 07:52 PM)

if it's on the side there's no problem trimming it, I mean you're not going to eat it right. it's the marbling that carries flavor. just don't start cutting away the connective tissue in a rolled roast-or the damn thing falls apart
Yeah... I always have a problem with the connective tissues... but that is what marinades (and slow cooking times) are for in my opinion...
Dumori
Jul 26 2010, 02:58 AM
Good food takes time luckly at lot of that time you can sod off and do what ever. For currys tast bested cooked slow and left to rest for a while. Slowly cooked meat is brill. Some think barke this rule but there's not many low skill quick cooks.
Snow_Fox
Jul 26 2010, 02:59 AM
I mean leave it together or your roast becomes a stir fry as it falls into pieces
Draco18s
Jul 26 2010, 03:48 AM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 25 2010, 09:48 PM)

but everyone thinks that I am crazy when I buy a fairly nice cut of meat, and then cut all of the visible fat from the edges (Hell, it does not even have to be a really GOOD cut of meat)... it gives me the willies...

Oh, I do the same. And I hate marbled fat, because it makes it that much more difficult to "eat around it."
Cows weren't supposed to have "marbled fat," they were bred that way to "taste better."
The Dragon Girl
Jul 26 2010, 04:05 AM
QUOTE (Daylen @ Jul 25 2010, 09:58 PM)

you LIKE starbucks!? Do you actually drink the coffee (is it black no sugar) or do you add so much junk that its really junk with a hint of coffee? Does paying more money for coffee really drown out the bad taste?
Goodness, bitter much? I actually ~like~ the taste of coffee, I brew it extra strong with a little sweetner and some creamer, no flavorent. Usually go for a medium roast, I'm not too fond of the bitterness of the darks, nor the acidity of the lights. And yes, higher grade beans just plain taste better than low grade beans, and I can discern between different blends and roasts.
The Dragon Girl
Jul 26 2010, 04:09 AM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 25 2010, 10:48 PM)

I eat mine at the cheap level of 73% (it is what I can generally afford)... but 85% is good... and yes, 90% lean on hamburger is a bit too dry for me as well... but everyone thinks that I am crazy when I buy a fairly nice cut of meat, and then cut all of the visible fat from the edges (Hell, it does not even have to be a really GOOD cut of meat)... it gives me the willies...

>.> a good trick? Wait till the boneless beef roast goes on sale then ask the nice man to grind it for you. Same cost, and now you have high grade hamburger meat.
Yerameyahu
Jul 26 2010, 04:31 AM
Out of your mind: marbling is the whole point. And without directed breeding, there are no cows, period. So there's no 'supposed to have' about it.
Saint Sithney
Jul 26 2010, 06:05 AM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jul 25 2010, 06:40 PM)

got to have it in burgers a wonderful example of what I said when I started this thread. People pay extra for beef with less fat, like 90% lean but i find that makes a burgere way too dry. i like 80-85% lean so i pay less money for a better tasting food.
I sometimes forget how the rest of the world does their business, but in Portland, even the mid-level bistros ($8-12 a plate) list the bakeries where they get their bread and the farms where they get their meat and produce. In a future where info is everywhere, your gen-u-ine hamburger is going to be tagged with all this info, as will your poo afterward.
For reference, check out
this recent article from the
WW. Mouthwatering.... mmmmm...
hobgoblin
Jul 26 2010, 06:29 AM
QUOTE (The Dragon Girl @ Jul 25 2010, 10:56 PM)

With coffee cheap/expensive really -can- make a difference. I remember trying to drink gas station coffee after I'd gotten trained as a barista. Eeeeyuck. Of course my favorite coffee tastes like drek if you don't drink it within 15 mins after its brewed so.. x.o *cuddles her french press*
its when i read stuff like that i wonder if i am better of being a culinary barbarian or not.
CanRay
Jul 26 2010, 04:00 PM
I drink Tim Horton's. I eat at a greasy spoon. I could care less about fancy foods.
And I was raised by a Chef.
...
OK, I have to correct that. I raised the Chef. Along with two other Parents as a Single Child.
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