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Voran
I was just flipping through my Seattle sourcebook, and was reading the short-story that leads into the first chapters "Kaboom Ka-bye". Now, don't get me wrong, its an excellently crafted story, and I enjoyed it in that sense, but after finishing it my first thought was this.

I would track Marie down and disable her, then feed her to ghouls, alive.

The casual nature by which she decides, "Hey the best way to deal with this courier is to slap a bomb on him", while entirely efficient, is entirely on the terrorist side of things. She rationalizes "Oh the blood is on the hands of the corp that used this unwitting wageslave to transport a datafile he didn't even know he had", then proceeds to blow him up, presumably the 7+ escorts in hidden array around him, and who knows how many innocent civilians.

She's not a runner. She's a fucking terrorist.


Anyway, we've had some excellent stories across the various new source material, just wondering if anyone else had any stories that for some reason or another inspired such a reaction. Whether homicidal, like mine, or whatever smile.gif
eidolon
I think maybe your definition of "runner" is a bit narrow. You personally might not like her methods, but "runner" != white knight in shining armor. Some of them are bad, bad people that can get a job done.

There aren't any bits of the fiction that I can remember not liking in a "that irritated me" way, but I'm probably just blocking them out and remembering the awesome that is all of Cybertechnology.

CanRay
QUOTE (eidolon @ Jul 29 2010, 09:20 PM) *
I think maybe your definition of "runner" is a bit narrow. You personally might not like her methods, but "runner" != white knight in shining armor. Some of them are bad, bad people that can get a job done.

Some?

Yeah, the "Stick t to the Corps" types died with the Neo-@s for the most part.
eidolon
Yeah, I know. I don't know if it was the fluff changed the player base, or if the player base changed regardless of the fluff and then the fluff changed or what.
suoq
I blame/credit William Gibson for using Mark Brandon Chopper Read as his inspiration for Keith Blackwell. Once that happened, all bets were off.
tete
Well she certainly isnt getting Good Karma *snicker*
Runners to some extent ARE terrorists, that said she wont live long in the shadows with that kind of behavior... One of those innocent civilians could always be a good friend of Lofwyr... best not to blow up his friends.
LurkerOutThere
I think morality has somewhat softened on Shadowrun but occasionally the pendulum swings back. For my part I and my characters don't like explosives for just this exact reason and a bomb on a crowded street is not an acceptable tool for one guy.


A sniper rifle is the professional answer.
eidolon
Meh. "Professional." Humph.
CanRay
Yeah, but then people know who the target was with a sniper rifle.

Bombs create more "Noise", and it takes more time to figure out who was the target, and, thusly, the suspect pool.

Drive-By, that's a bit better. And, if you're squeemish about bodycount, program a Smartgunned SMG to only miss except for one target IDed by Biometrics. A bit of noise with the bystanders, and you still only nail your target.
Catadmin
The main character of the story was a single 'runner with no team backup. Yes, there were alternatives to how she could have done the hit, but she didn't appear to be a sniper or a ninja or a poisoner. Her specialty seemed to be explosives / demolitions.

So when reading this tale, I make the assumption that Mr. Johnson knows the runner's skillset and either knew exactly how the hit was going to go down or specifically requested it to go down that way.

I'm willing to give the author the benefit of this doubt because in a story this short, there's no way she could explain everything going on behind the scenes. She just had to assume the readers would know enough about SR to figure it out.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jul 30 2010, 03:42 PM) *
I think morality has somewhat softened on Shadowrun but occasionally the pendulum swings back. For my part I and my characters don't like explosives for just this exact reason and a bomb on a crowded street is not an acceptable tool for one guy.


A sniper rifle is the professional answer.


Rule number 7: There is no problem that can't be solved with the right amount of explosives.
tete
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jul 30 2010, 10:50 PM) *
Rule number 7: There is no problem that can't be solved with the right amount of explosives.


Depends on your definition of "solved", I suppose that is one way to "solve" bleeding out from a knife wound, but I would have preferred the Doc Wagon approach.
CanRay
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jul 30 2010, 04:50 PM) *
Rule number 7: There is no problem that can't be solved with the right amount of explosives.

I prefer Rule 11: "Everything is air-droppable at least once."

Especially useful when you have some nice, tall buildings. Or a T-Bird. Or a Helicopter.
Smokeskin
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 30 2010, 02:37 AM) *
I was just flipping through my Seattle sourcebook, and was reading the short-story that leads into the first chapters "Kaboom Ka-bye". Now, don't get me wrong, its an excellently crafted story, and I enjoyed it in that sense, but after finishing it my first thought was this.

I would track Marie down and disable her, then feed her to ghouls, alive.

The casual nature by which she decides, "Hey the best way to deal with this courier is to slap a bomb on him", while entirely efficient, is entirely on the terrorist side of things. She rationalizes "Oh the blood is on the hands of the corp that used this unwitting wageslave to transport a datafile he didn't even know he had", then proceeds to blow him up, presumably the 7+ escorts in hidden array around him, and who knows how many innocent civilians.

She's not a runner. She's a fucking terrorist.


Anyway, we've had some excellent stories across the various new source material, just wondering if anyone else had any stories that for some reason or another inspired such a reaction. Whether homicidal, like mine, or whatever smile.gif


Compared to a bunch of "no-wetwork" runners who run after run sneak into corp facilities and every other time they have to shoot their way out with automatics with APDS ammo? She's doing about the same.
CanRay
The fact is that, in 2070, a lot of Security Companies are lumping Shadowrunners into the "Terrorist" category, even if they don't deserve it.

Why? Well, they figured out it's a "Hot Topic Button" that makes the Norms "OMGWTF SCARED!!!" and takes away from the glamour that Shadowrunners had in the '50s and '60s, where they were seen as "The last bastallion of Freedom, sticking it to the Corps" thanks to a lot of Trid and Sims that were "Based" on Shadowruns.

Terrorism became a horrific thing in the public eye (At least in the Western World) again after Dues and Winternight did their things during Crash 2.0. Before that, they were seen mostly as either Eco-Terrorists (Which kind of make sense, in a insane sort of way) and Policlubs (And who can't help but hate a bigot?). But, with Crash 2.0 and it's affiliates erasing SINs, causing "Apes", setting MAGICALLY ENHANCED NUKES off... Yeah...

Funny, considering what Shadowrunners did to help prevent ACTUAL nutbar terrorists from blowing up the world!

RIP, Captain Chaos and ShadowLand.
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 29 2010, 07:37 PM) *
She's not a runner. She's a fucking terrorist.



A lot of runners effectively are terrorists. My last team had 2. Doesn't mean they're not runners.
MortVent
to paraphrase another story:

some runners are out for vengence, survial, to stick it to the man.. and others are just paid to shoot someone in the face



runners are professionals, but not all professionals are going to use the same tools and methods. Some are scapels others are a truck load of C-12

Each is used by the corps for different reasons, collateral damage is going to happen.

sometimes it's the runners that cause it, other times it's corp security firing without hesitation into the crowd to take down the runners (and killing innocent wage slaves held as meat shields to do it)

Life is cheap in SR, morality is based for most on how much ya willing to pay
CanRay
The problem with "Professional" runs, which my group just dealt with right now, is the amount of work that goes into it. Particularily on the Hacker, who needs to Forge the documents, do the research, hack the facilities, blah blah blah, while the Street Sami and the Magician sit around playing Poker. (There is an advantage to all that Cyberwear, it makes the Aura harder to read!).

On the bright side, when it comes time to steal Lincoln Sprawlcars and put on fake Diplomatic Plates, and the occasional flatbed truck, well, that's fun for everyone!
Voran
oooh activity smile.gif

I'm not opposed to wet-work runs, sometimes you're going to have to leave a few bleeders and make a few widows/orphans/whatever. Guess I'm just old. Time was the game was about 'sticking it to the man!', now apparently a good day's work is to take a page from the IRA, or Al-Qaeda. Not really a criticism, as the game and the vibe go with the times I suppose. Still, from a PC perspective, my history in gaming lent towards less collateral damage, cause our GM was nasty enough with consequences we KNEW about, why give him extra ammo, "Oh that bomb stunt? Yeah, you killed the daughter of one of your contacts."
Jaid
ah. well, i guess if your GM is going to arbitrarily punish your characters for doing your job in a way he doesn't like, then i could see why that angle might be particularly bothersome.
CanRay
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2010, 12:50 AM) *
Guess I'm just old. Time was the game was about 'sticking it to the man!'

Ah, the good ol' days, I never knew them. frown.gif

Thing is, you're working for "The Man" while sticking it to "The Other Man", so, really, who was getting anything out of the deal?

That said, as a GM, yeah, going out of your way to up the body count is not a good idea at all. But, then again, it's socially accepted that there is some "Collateral Damage". After all, you see security guards get aced all the time by Shadowrunners on the 'Trid.

Still doesn't stop Lone Star from beating the ever-loving $Diety out of Shadowrunners who are Cop Killers or geeked Little Suzy in a Drive-By/Bombing or some such. And then handing them over to Bubba the Love Troll (BTW, loved his Cameo in Shadowrun: Vice!), after finding "Evidence" of enough crimes to put them away for an Elf's Lifetime.

If they're SINless, of course. If they have SINs, well, there are a "Few" protections left for them... Better hope you got enough laundered cash in your legitimate accounts to pay a good Lawyer to make sure you get those, however.

As the SINner in my group is finding out. devil.gif
Whipstitch
See, I consider the form of "sticking it to the Man" that shadowrunners typically engage in as being somewhat akin to terrorism in many instances. It's not just sabotage anymore when you're willing to shoot your way through a half dozen people on your way to wreck the machinery or otherwise prove that you don't want the corps pushing people around anymore. It's a matter of perspective, in the end. One man's mujahideen is another man's cowardly fanatic. Even purely mercenary criminals who liked wearing the bad boy image on their sleeve tended to think of themselves as more of daring than as bad guys. Dillinger was fond of letting people know who we as, after all, and he rather successfully cultivated an image of being fairly polite to hostages. People don't like thinking themselves as the bad guy, so forgive me if I always took the fuzzy neo-anarchist shadowrunning scene with a big ol' honking bag of salt.
Voran
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 31 2010, 01:49 AM) *
ah. well, i guess if your GM is going to arbitrarily punish your characters for doing your job in a way he doesn't like, then i could see why that angle might be particularly bothersome.


Why is it arbitrary tho? Consequences for choices made, you choose to be random, you get random consequences too.
tete
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2010, 05:30 PM) *
Why is it arbitrary tho? Consequences for choices made, you choose to be random, you get random consequences too.


/agree

everyone has relatives and friends, rack up a body count and eventually you killed someone important enough that you made yourself a target. Thats part of the fun of Shadowrun.

You can do the moral thing,
You can do the get rich thing
or
You can just try to survive chummer
Eimi
There have always been runners that didn't give a crap about leaving a huge bodycount behind on jobs, just like there have always been runners that have been careful not to kill anyone they didn't have to. Nothing's really changed, other than the PR rap runners as a whole tend to get, though they're still pretty darn popular in some places, as LA's 'star runners' will attest to.

Running hasn't gotten any bloodier or more conscientious on the whole, it's still down to how individual runners and runner groups operate. Leaving behind piles of bodies still gets you more heat than not leaving any would, and not leaving any while still succeeding on a run is still more complicated and hard to do than the alternative. The corps still need the runners, so they tend to invest about the same amount of effort in delivering retribution after a run as they ever did. Johnsons may still want to either avoid collateral damage and the extra attention it brings with it, or they may want a lot of explosions and noise to send a message, just as they sometimes did in the past. Runners that try to avoid wanton killing still come into some conflict with runners that just don't care or even enjoy it.

There is no new breed of more dangerous and immoral runners, just like there's no new breed of more conscientious and moral corp or government targets. Nothing changes. Except for the SOTA, chummer.
Jaid
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2010, 12:30 PM) *
Why is it arbitrary tho? Consequences for choices made, you choose to be random, you get random consequences too.



QUOTE (tete @ Jul 31 2010, 01:29 PM) *
/agree

everyone has relatives and friends, rack up a body count and eventually you killed someone important enough that you made yourself a target. Thats part of the fun of Shadowrun.

You can do the moral thing,
You can do the get rich thing
or
You can just try to survive chummer



alright, simple question: was the contact's relative there BEFORE or AFTER you killed bystanders? if the GM designed the run such that the daughter of one of the contacts was there BEFORE bystanders were killed, then it is not arbitrary. if the GM decided AFTER you killed some bystanders that he was going to punish you by making one of them your contact's daughter, then it was arbitrary.

now i'm not saying that the families of innocent bystanders that you kill shouldn't ever come after you. particularly if you do it a lot, sooner or later it will be someone in a position to make you wish you had been a little more cautious. but making it specifically your contact's daughter completely out of the blue? that's just pushing it, imo.

edit: mind you, the relatives and friends of people who aren't innocent bystanders should also come after you from time to time, and there is imo a much higher chance for them to be able to make your life miserable as a general rule.
Rand
Voran, you took the words right out of my mouth! I thought the exact same thing when I read it. I even laughed at her rationalization because of how stupid it is.

I know the basic game is about being a criminal, but I like to get away from that. When the only motivation is greed, it is hard for me to work stroylines, plus, I don't like criminal scum bags. (Not saying every criminal is a scum bag, just that the game lends itself to playing criminal scum bags: those that are totally OK with killing anyone that gets in the way of them making a buck.) I prefer them to have morals and ethics so that I can play off of them. Also, as a product of the 80's I like it when it is good guys vs. bad guys, not bad guys vs. bad guys. I have no emotional stake in that story; it is OK if they all die as far as I am concerned.
CanRay
QUOTE (Eimi @ Jul 31 2010, 01:45 PM) *
There have always been runners that didn't give a crap about leaving a huge bodycount behind on jobs,
Kane.
QUOTE (Eimi @ Jul 31 2010, 01:45 PM) *
just like there have always been runners that have been careful not to kill anyone they didn't have to...
Twist. (Or "Sir Twist").
eidolon
Bahahaha. Twist. Kills me. (Or rather, doesn't. biggrin.gif)
Smokeskin
QUOTE (Rand @ Aug 1 2010, 12:07 AM) *
Voran, you took the words right out of my mouth! I thought the exact same thing when I read it. I even laughed at her rationalization because of how stupid it is.

I know the basic game is about being a criminal, but I like to get away from that. When the only motivation is greed, it is hard for me to work stroylines, plus, I don't like criminal scum bags. (Not saying every criminal is a scum bag, just that the game lends itself to playing criminal scum bags: those that are totally OK with killing anyone that gets in the way of them making a buck.) I prefer them to have morals and ethics so that I can play off of them. Also, as a product of the 80's I like it when it is good guys vs. bad guys, not bad guys vs. bad guys. I have no emotional stake in that story; it is OK if they all die as far as I am concerned.


Criminal scum bags are fine. They have plenty of motivations to play off. Greed, ambition, pride, anger, jealousy, vengeance, can't you make stories from that? Also, even criminal scum bags tend to have people they care about - family, friends, the guys they've run with, people who saved their life and they feel they owe them. And they still care about their reputation, their safety, their income.

CanRay
It is the exceptionally rare individual that can live in a vacuum. You're right, everyone has someone, and vengence is one of the oldest reasons to go out and get revenge. (Frank Castle has been doing it for, what, thirty or fourty years now?).

There's also the other side of the coin, Police Scumbags. (I'm not saying that all police are scumbags, but...).

...

You know, aside from a badge, I have a hard time telling the difference.
MortVent
remember even the bad guys love their children too

But to just punish someone for playing in character because it offends you in a game about criminal activity is just ... nuking futz

The world is full of everyday joes and janes, not every messy hit or run is going to result in the powers to be having a realative or loved one there...

Otherwise it breaks the game, you can't kill Joe the accountant cause he's related to the head of the mafia through his cousin three times removed sister-in-law
Tiralee
Every body left behind, every crippled career, every botched extraction...that's a GM Hook that should be recorded for later and served piping-hot with a hint of "...Well, remember that botched run on Corp X?"


Mortvent
QUOTE
remember even the bad guys love their children too


I also seem to remember the recent phrase, "everyone talks with their kids soaked in fuel..."

If you team insists on blowing stuff up, it's pretty simple to figure they're going to get jobs blowing stuff up, get double-crossed down the track and take out a good chunk of the local block when their last-stand shootout occurs. Or have them gassed while they sleep and wake up with some new scars, a drop in essence and an employer that's sent them to some god-awful 4th world nation to do just that, until they die from the cranial bomb they've got.

But for stories rubbing me the wrong way? Two words:
Striper Assassin.

Not even it being a Shadowrun book could help it:)



Tir.
Hagga
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 30 2010, 12:37 AM) *
I was just flipping through my Seattle sourcebook, and was reading the short-story that leads into the first chapters "Kaboom Ka-bye". Now, don't get me wrong, its an excellently crafted story, and I enjoyed it in that sense, but after finishing it my first thought was this.

I would track Marie down and disable her, then feed her to ghouls, alive.

The casual nature by which she decides, "Hey the best way to deal with this courier is to slap a bomb on him", while entirely efficient, is entirely on the terrorist side of things. She rationalizes "Oh the blood is on the hands of the corp that used this unwitting wageslave to transport a datafile he didn't even know he had", then proceeds to blow him up, presumably the 7+ escorts in hidden array around him, and who knows how many innocent civilians.

She's not a runner. She's a fucking terrorist.


Anyway, we've had some excellent stories across the various new source material, just wondering if anyone else had any stories that for some reason or another inspired such a reaction. Whether homicidal, like mine, or whatever smile.gif

Keep in mind that the standard player solution almost always involves explosives, and I'm sure many other GM's have had occasions where they handled wetwork by saying "fuck it" and crashing a car into someone at 300km/h.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Hagga @ Aug 9 2010, 10:01 AM) *
Keep in mind that the standard player solution almost always involves explosives, and I'm sure many other GM's have had occasions where they handled wetwork by saying "fuck it" and crashing a car into someone at 300km/h.


We had a wetwork once from the Denver Missions where we should kill two Triad guys at the same time. We stole a bus and used it to hit guy A's limo and guy B's limo we blew it up by launching a grenade under the car (the chunky salsa effect took care of the rest).
Redcrow
Different players enjoy various different styles of Shadowrun and none is more or less valid than another so long as everyone involved has fun.

My own preference is for a more 'street level, noir, spy thriller' and less 'run 'n gun, shoot 'em up. I always stress to my players that leaving a trail of bullets, blood, and bodies is not a good thing and tends to get noticed. The use of automatic weapons and grenades in most cities is sure to make the news and draw unwanted attention from the authorities. Not only is that bad for the Runners themselves, but it can also put pressure on any of their contacts who may have supplied them with those illegal items.

"Oh, you used up all the grenades I sold you last week blowing up something in the middle of downtown. I think I may have caught something about that on the news every single day since. And now you would like to get some more? Unfortunately, that little escapade has brought the feds snooping around every suspected arms dealer in town and I can't risk trying to move any more merchandise until things blow over. I really appreciate your contribution to my biz and I'll be sure to deliver those explosives to you personally just as soon as I can. smile.gif"

But thats just the way I prefer to handle things in my games. YMMV
Critias
QUOTE (Redcrow @ Aug 10 2010, 03:58 AM) *
Different players enjoy various different styles of Shadowrun and none is more or less valid than another so long as everyone involved has fun.

My own preference is for a more 'street level, noir, spy thriller' and less 'run 'n gun, shoot 'em up. I always stress to my players that leaving a trail of bullets, blood, and bodies is not a good thing and tends to get noticed. The use of automatic weapons and grenades in most cities is sure to make the news and draw unwanted attention from the authorities. Not only is that bad for the Runners themselves, but it can also put pressure on any of their contacts who may have supplied them with those illegal items.

"Oh, you used up all the grenades I sold you last week blowing up something in the middle of downtown. I think I may have caught something about that on the news every single day since. And now you would like to get some more? Unfortunately, that little escapade has brought the feds snooping around every suspected arms dealer in town and I can't risk trying to move any more merchandise until things blow over. I really appreciate your contribution to my biz and I'll be sure to deliver those explosives to you personally just as soon as I can. smile.gif"

But thats just the way I prefer to handle things in my games. YMMV

I think a lot of that depends on (a) what part of town it's taking place in, and (b) what edition of Shadowrun you're capturing the feel of. Some of the older fluff has entire sections of interstate highway being owned and run by RPG-toting biker gangs. Some has swathes of Seattle that Lone Star wouldn't go into, because the natives would band together and outgun them. Some has Tir Border Patrol units -- the nastiest, most paranoid, trigger happy, overgunned, min/maxed, cheesy, fanboy-riddled Border Patrol -- getting wiped out for kicks by the Spikes go-gang.

In that sort of universe, a little full auto is probably normal at lunchtime throughout Seattle, it won't be on the news every day except if it gets mentioned as one of today's 37 incidents that led to the daily murder lotto number being so high, or something. Feds, schmeds. If no one important got hit, even Lone Star won't investigate too hard.

It really just comes down to the flavor of the game you're after. Noir is a blast, but the problems crop up when -- just as a for instance, I don't mean to be picking on you, here -- one of your players maybe reads the wrong novel or old bit of fluff, and builds a character that fits his, just as canon, version of Shadowrun.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Tiralee @ Aug 9 2010, 06:49 AM) *
But for stories rubbing me the wrong way? Two words:
Striper Assassin.

Not even it being a Shadowrun book could help it:)



Tir.

I hated that bitch too. I also very much disliked how the author made her a Mary Sue. It seemed that she could do no wrong in that book.
Redjack
This thread just gave me several ideas for runs, the morale of a at least one being that if your are sloppy and kill bystanders some of them will have friends who will pay for some eye-for-eye justice.
Mäx
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2010, 07:30 PM) *
Why is it arbitrary tho? Consequences for choices made, you choose to be random, you get random consequences too.

Or maybe your a little less random and smartly let your contacts know that friday isn't a good day to be in downtown. wink.gif
Voran
Aren't all strippers assassins?
CanRay
QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM) *
Aren't all strippers assassins?

Lesbian Elven Stripper Ninjas?
Martin_DeVries_Institute
Y'know, that fits into the TMNT theme song exactly. I want someone to make this show now. "Stripper power!"
sabs
QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 11 2010, 12:19 AM) *
Lesbian Elven Stripper Ninjas?


Heroes in a half cup?
Halinn
QUOTE (sabs @ Aug 11 2010, 05:43 AM) *
Heroes in a half cup?


Two elves one cup?
DamienKnight
If a runner in one of my games detonated a courier, and ended up killing multiple bodyguards and a few innocent civilians, I would give her 2 points of notoriety. As a GM I cannot keep track of who the player pissed on during their runs, but Notoriety is a nice simple system for noting how evil and how public their deeds are.

If a trid is released of the runner executing a child, they are going to get like 5 notoriety... 2 for murdering someone so innocent, and 3 for it going SO public. Its going to take alot of damage control to make people forget about that (like 10 points of rep worth smile.gif

Now if the Runner blew up innocent people and it was not part of a job and no one could connect the deed to the runner, then no notoriety would be assigned. People cant hate you if they dont know your a bastard.

I dont assign notoriety for killing just anyone. Guards die, it happens. Just killing innocents, or causing mass damage (like killing an entire van full of guards, or blowing up a building). Part of Notoriety is not just what people think of you, but how much you are pissing off the corps. Cause enough damage and its going to be cheaper to pay a corp hit squad to take you down that to suffer another devastating attack by a psycho runner.


Oh, and on a side note: My group is so brutal, I have taken to adding a new karma point to the list, 'Humanitarian Karma'. Basically if the runners have an opportunity to kill people and do not kill ANYONE, they get 1 bonus karma.
sabs
Have they gotten that bonus karma yet?
binarywraith
QUOTE (eidolon @ Jul 30 2010, 11:50 AM) *
Yeah, I know. I don't know if it was the fluff changed the player base, or if the player base changed regardless of the fluff and then the fluff changed or what.


Personally, I blame sourcebook creep. Back in The Day, your average runner was in synthleather, packing a Predator or maybe an Ingram SmartGun if they happened to be a street sam into rate of fire. But as each new set of books comes out, the prevalence of military-grade hardware with low, low prices and availability gets stronger, and escalation gets crazy.

Makes it hard as a GM who doesn't want to have to pull out professional mercenaries as security teams all the time, because the average security mooks or gangers are constantly outgunned.
Kruger
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Aug 11 2010, 08:01 AM) *
As a GM I cannot keep track of who the player pissed on during their runs
You don't have one of them fancy new computers with their word processing programs that allow you to type stuff and save it?

QUOTE
Oh, and on a side note: My group is so brutal, I have taken to adding a new karma point to the list, 'Humanitarian Karma'. Basically if the runners have an opportunity to kill people and do not kill ANYONE, they get 1 bonus karma.
Ahh, some of that new age parenting where we reward kids for doing good instead of punishing them for doing bad.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Redjack @ Aug 10 2010, 05:07 AM) *
This thread just gave me several ideas for runs, the morale of a at least one being that if your are sloppy and kill bystanders some of them will have friends who will pay for some eye-for-eye justice.



I had a similar thought. Teams fixer contact comes to them, beat and bandaged up. "I was walking down the street today when a bomb went off in the pocket of a guy next to me. I have low profile body armor bone lacing an have survived getting shot with an anti material rifle. My six year old neice holding my hand while waiting to cross the street had none of these things. I would like you to find the person or persons responsible and bring them to me. I also need you to stop by the hardware store on your way back and grab some things on this list."

See if you can get the runners to squirm as a normally amiable contact goes off the deep end.
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