I was wondering in what situations people prefer shotguns over other similarly sized items? Do you find the horrible AP mod of flechettes prohibit their use? My other problem is the lack of GasVent coupled with full auto seems to make them worse for large bursts than just about anything else. The only real advantage I see is trying to hit a very dodge prone character with low armor. Any advice on how to better utilize them?

I also just noticed that the Remington 990 in SR4A has an AP of +2 when using flechettes. Is this a typo or a feature?

Full-auto suppressive fire with flichette rounds on wide choke.

Not a typo, as flichette rounds have much less mass than a normal bullet, they are much more easily deflected kevlar.

Well, you can still manage BF with a typical set of mods. Auto-adjusting weight, shock pad and personalized grip will net you 4 RC. Enough for two bursts in a pass with only a -2 DP on the 2nd burst. Not so bad.

So, you combine burst rules with choke rules and you're going to negate a lot of potential dodge pool.

EDIT: Hmm, best I found was Udoshi going over Wide choke Long bursts with an AA-16, which is not a full level by level breakdown.

But, say you've come upon a hallway/alleyway full of enemies. You could suppress the area and do base DV, or you could fire a wide burst at 5P +2(burst) + net with +9 AP and -4 to dodge. Average grunts would have to take an interrupt to go on full dodge if they were gong to hope to decrease net hits at all. Otherwise, your main target and up to two targets within a meter to the right or left will have to soak 7P plus hits with an estimated 19 dice. Sure, it's going to be stun, but so is most suppressive fire, and, so long as you can average more than 3 net hits, it'll be more effective than suppressive fire on a few clustered opponents, plus it can be done twice in a pass.

Pretty sure that was covered in errata. Should be +5 like all the others afik.

You can just use the Smart Firing Platform so you can have several of them filling an area with bits of metal to cover your escape. Sure, you'll only do stun damage, but it'll add up.

The Shotgun's main advantage is being a Poor-Man's Grenade Launcher. There are a lot of Shotgun Shells on the market designed to do numerous things! Door-Breaching Rounds, Flares, Low-Lethality Beanbags... AND, if you have a hunting license, it's easy enough to explain away to the cops why you have one in the trunk of your car. "Just heading to the SSC to go hunting, Officer. Here's my license and passport as proof."

As well, if you get an old model that uses cased rounds, they are some of the easiest to reload for "Special Purposes". Going Shapechanger Hunting, pull out the steel buckshot and load in silver! Facing Bugs, reduced gunpowder loads and glass canisters of insecticide!

And, well, they're also good for taking down that Ten-Point Buck that you might be able to use to pay your ORC Connections with. Or to placate Bubba the Love Troll if/when he finally gets out of Prison.

I think CanRay hit it on the head. In SR, the shotgun seems to be more of a tool rather than a weapon. Its also easier to change-up loads on the fly (assuming you're carrying variable loads).

Only thing I find is that the type I wanna carry (check out the ironridgeguns site), a modded short barreled shotty tends to be a little harder to RP spoof. "Um, its for hunting (feral ghouls!)"

That might work, actually. Get a license as a ghoul hunter, and you'd have a reason to be kitted out like a Shadowrunner. I'm going to have to remember that one.

I wish shotgun special rounds were a little more special. Some people restrict S&S to shotguns for that (ancillary) purpose, but a few more nifty shotgun-only loads would be fun.

Cayenne pepper rounds are really fun.

Yeah my biggest beef with Arsenal is that it only had 2 special shotgun round.

But here's my own contribution to remedieng that problem:
Dragonsbreath rounds
These shells use low-explosive propellant charges to expel burning powdered zirconium out of the barrel, basically turning the shotgun into flamethrower.
When using these shells use tazer ranges.
6P -half I 12F 140
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gas shells
These shells are designed for police to use against barricaded suspect, used to deliver gas(tear commonly) to suspect by shooting the shell trought the barrier.
Sas shell releases a cloud of gas over an area with a diameter of 10 meters.
When trying to shoot the shell into other side of the barrier douple the damage and compare that to the modified armor value of the barrier,if the damage doesn't exceed the armor the shell doesn't penetrate and releases it gas payload to user side of the barrier.
-1 -1 I 10R(or chemicals withc ever is higher) 100+chemical

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sabot round
A sabot round consists of a small, dense core surrounded by a lightweight jacket (the sabot itself). When the round is fired, the sabot falls away within a few yards ofthe muzzle,
leaving the projectile to travel on at extremely high velocity increasing the effective range of the slug. Increase the shotguns range by 50% when using these.
- - B 4R 40


I could use some comments on those, especially the gas shell.
Edit: added one more

yeah, I was also considering bringing back dragonbreath rounds and gas shells. For DB rounds I believe the additional restriction is 'SS' only, if used in a SA shotty that's used to fire more than once per round (combat), the firer risks getting a dose of their own dragonbreath flame. (I think its due to the fact that DB rounds act like miniflamethrowers that actually have a brief, but sustained duration) In game sense, you'd have to make sure your smartlinked shotty doesn't do an automatic ejection of the DB shell until its fully spent.

Gas rounds are always fun, especially if you spoof them to make them seem like loosely shotpellet rounds too. The targets get so focused on the small amount of birdshot, they don't realize you've just popped neurostun.

Back to the original question, Flechettes (Or, you know, SHOT!) are excellent against low-armoured targets. Like that Ten-Point Buck I mentioned above, or low-level gangers.

As said Gangers only have numbers on their side against Shadowrunners (Who are armed, armoured, and possibly have Adept/Magic abilities!), then, well, Shotguns live up to their nickname, "Riot Guns".

hi hi

Some thoughts on oddball ammunition.

• Dragons Breath ought to return, it is something people have been doing for a long time and certainly isn't high tech.

• Take a slug, cut it in half, attach both halves together with monofilament.

• Blank shotgun round + grappling hook = batman.

• Capsule round + datachip = difficult to intercept communication.

• Capsule round + rating 6 acid = mega ouch.

• Dry rice with Seasoning powder capsules = pre-seasoned game.

• Netting.

Well, for those that say "Stick and Shock" don't exist, well, apparently it's existed for two years: Taser, International XREP Shotgun Shell

Difficult to intercept, sure. Difficult to notice? Not so much. Also, there's the fact that datachips aren't really designed to survive being slammed into things at twice the speed of sound. You're better off with point-to-point lasercomm.

They make a fantastic nanite delivery system. They get hit with a round that splatters like paintball, and don't notice the goo build itself into a transmitter/receiver so the party hacker can get at their Signal 0 'ware.

BLAM.
"Unh? Sucker." Moves in for the kill. Stops suddenly and puts own gun to his head. "Uh?"
BLAM.

See, very useful tools, shotguns!

Of course, everything you can do with a Shotgun can also be done with Grenade Launchers, only larger. 40mm, gotta love it!

Grenade Launchers are shotguns for Trolls.

Or when you're hunting big game.

"Honestly officer, Greater Armadillo. They're great eating!"

Yeah we tend to overlook stuff like flechettes thinking, omg, your average PC is running around in Imp rating nearly as good as their ballistic rating! (Plus overall ratings nearly or superior to 'security armor' grade), but it remains excellent against the lower end of the scale that can't afford to trick itself out in great armor.

It's also great for killing baby seals. Mutated, Awakened baby seals that eat your Karma.

Yeah, but how are they on Drop Bears?

Depends, usually the bears get the drop on you or your buddies. Sure, you can use the shotguns but your buddies might not like it...

'Aaaah! Get it off! Get it off!'
*BLAMBLAMBLAM*
'got 'im, frank! frank?!
smoke clears
'uh oh'

"Great, now I have Buckshot, and HMHVV in me! Both things are not supposed to be taken internally!"

Actually... Shooting at your own people caught up in a tussle is a pretty good use of wide choke, seeing as how runners have Impact out the yang while others don't.

Be funny as hell. "Shoot 'em both! Spike can take it, that crazy-ass koala sure as hell can't!"

When Drop Bears attacks,armor w/ high level Non-Conductivity and Stick n- Shock rounds are your best friend.

Oooh reminds me of a one shot run... was playing a mage from down under (yes based off dundee..) with a phobia of drop bears (wouldn't walk under any eucalyptus tree ever..)

a couple fell on the troll... he failed his compulsure test.

quote the troll: Did you just fireball me?
quote the mage: Nope i fireballed them spawns of satan, you were just in the way.

I'd like to point out that a revolver with an ammo skip system(the smartwheel) is incredibly useful for exactly this reason.
A smartlinked ruger warhawk with an ammo skip system is fairly cheap at 750.
Especially for an adept with nimble fingers, which makes reloading a non-action, who can generally insert two rounds of choice every pass to deal with their targets.

Also, uh. I don't think there's any reason non-shotguns can use flechette ammo, which opens up a ton of possibilities.

Non-Shotguns can use Flechette Ammo (Pre-Fragmented Rounds, basically), but they won't get the "Shotgun Spread" that you'd get with Shotties.

Oh, right, just had a brain fart and remembered another reason to have Flechette-Loaded Shotties: WHEELS!

If you've watched Cop Chase Shows on TV (And, if you haven't, well, YouTube some), you'll see that shooting out a tire is a damned hard thing to do. Shotguns with a Wide-Choke would make that a bit easier.

The Hacker in my group just got his hands on a Lone Star MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone with a Defiance T-250 Shotgun that was doing Highway Patrol when it was retasked to investigate him, as it was the closest Lone Star "Unit" available. He just had to kick the Rigger out of the Drone first (Blackout and insanely good rolls, gotta love 'em!).

Anyhow, the idea I had for the Drone in the first place was to visually scan for speeders or "Suspicious Persons" (Go-Go-Go-Gangs!) and persue/incapacitate them until biological units could arrive on scene.

CCI Shotshell rounds, or as the ammo type is more commonly known, Rat Shot. I've also seen 9mm and 10mm/.40 rounds with a few 00 or 000 buckshot pellets behind the cap.

Knew I forgot about Ratshot.

And I knew a funny story about someone trying to buy a house that was full of "Tiny Holes in the Wall". Turns out the house had a snake problem, and the previous owner solved it with Ratshot.

But Ratshot is not going to do much against a Metahuman. The shot is just too small. It won't be fun to be hit by it, but it won't kill anyone.

You might lose an eye, but that can happen with a BB Gun, as most folks who are forced to watch Christmas Specials know.

But, it's flechette. That's the point. It'll do +2 DV, +5 AP.

No, it's Ratshot. Tiny little pellets, emphasis on TINY!

For your friend and mine, kinetic transfer (What used to be called "Stopping Power") to happen, you need weight and velocity. You might, might get the velocity behind those rounds, but certainly not the weight.

Actually, weight has a bit more to do with things than velocity, but then we're starting to get into physics, and let's just not go there.

I failed physics.

Not in 2070, it's not. It's flechette. Tiny little FLECHES. No, it's not a bullet. That's why it's a whopping +5 AP.

But pistols don't have choke settings, so it's not necessarily a spread shot. Flechette ammo for pistols and such might as well be tungsten darts or something.

Like the Slivergun. It's technically flechette, but it just shoots out metal slivers which tear up flesh.

Right. It's got no Choke option like a shotgun. You just get the ammo modifiers. Nothing about flechette inherently means 'shotgun spread' in the first place.

In my games I basically say that all ammo existing for regular guns exists for shotguns, there is no way an arms industri would ignore the potential of such a weapon in 60 years, or hell, today.

You just wouldn't get the choke setting for most ammunition.

Ex-Explosive: Frag-12
Stick N Shock: Tazer Rounds

Etc...

Thats to tame for Frag-12, i think "treat as an high explosive grenade" would be much more appropriate.
Actually i think i have to add that into my extra gear catalog im building.

No. +2 DV for +2 AP is a fine tradeoff. Unless you start using EX EX rounds the target nets a +3 bonus to their Damage Resistance test (from -1 AP to +2), which should only result in 1 hit. So unless the target rolls abnormally well you end up causing 1 extra damage.

Of course, when given the opportunity I'd choose most any other round over flechette, but for a basic round it is pretty good.

I think a shotgun shell would be too small for that kind of explosive power - unless we use an unstable explosive...

Hmm...Critical Glitch and the weapon explode as a Frag grenade on the shooter (Magazine detonates)

It was errated to +2 DV and +5 AP a long time ago.


Check the grenade launcher in the game, especially MGL-6 and Enfield GL-67 with its 20 grenade drum magazine, i doupt those use grenades any bigger then shotgun shells.
And Frag-12 do have quite impressive exploding power and there's 60 years to make them better.

Hmm...shotgun shells feel too small, but they might very well have cut down 40mm grenades to 20mm grenades, similar to those seen in Aliens on the pulse rifles. 20mm grenades in a bullpup magazine on the MGL-6 sounds very feasible.

there is a 20mm grenade in rl, and a 12 guage model too.

Check out the show that ahd the full auto shotgun on it... was on sci or discovery channel.

It's a fin stablaized mini-grenade

That would be the frag-12 we're talking about
Oh and the show your thinking about is Future Weapons.

Does that change the stats of the weapons like the Mossberg that only fire flechette? If it doesn't, those weapons are fine.

Ofcource it does, it just sad that catalyst is really bad at updating their tables to have correct values.
Mossenber and roomsweeper are the only one that hhave the correct values in the latest printing.